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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You're really going to try and say quest text is telepathy? You can't be serious lmao
    Quest Text is not a game mechanic. Its descriptive. If Blizzard wants you to go an NPC that isn't near you, and doesn't want said NPC to "talk" to you from long range, then they have no issues (and never have) just having you get the next quest stage as "Alextrasza motions you over" or "You should go see if you can figure out what the dragons are doing here and talk to Alextrasza".

    But they had her clearly imparting words to you, when that wasn't necessary, and in other situations like that, they simply provide you with a generic reason to go over and talk to the NPC in question; in this case, she's imparting deliberate words/information to you. While nowhere near you.

    Not it absolutely isn't. And Kralljin pointed out exactly why it isn't telepathy. The fact that you are treating quest text that doesn't even mention telepathy as if it actually IS telepathy is asinine.
    You're too focused on being a massive pedantic jackhole that you are deliberately ignoring the part where the person you're arguing against already said it doesnt have to literally be psychic telepathy. It could be literally anything. Magic, innate ability to vocalize without moving their mouths, psychic powers, whatever. You're so hung up on the super-specific 'telepathy' angle that its almost worrying.

    Some Dragons (or at the very least, Alextrasza) can make people hear them from a distance. We know this because its literally happened.

    Arguing otherwise just makes you look insane.

    Wether them not moving their mouths in this cinematic is just Blizzard's laziness, or not, is immaterial. Because we've already seen it happen, in-game, we know its possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Reminder the lich king did that literally multiple times per zone in wotlk, he literally has the chance to kill you several times but keeps saying "i will let you live, for now..."
    Perfect examplebeing the end of the zulgurub dungeon.
    The difference is that the Lich Kings actual plan was to let you get powerful so that when he insta-killed you all at the end he could raise you all to be extremely powerful Scourge Lieutenants to lead his armies. Like, he WANTED you to get powerful. If not for Deus Ex Tirion breaking Frostmourne, Arthas' plan worked. He won. He killed us all and was going to complete his plan until Tirion's impossibe-to-predict escape from his ice prison shattered Frostmourne.

    It does not appear that this rando hitherto unknown Mega Dragon has that plan in mind.

    Its just being a tropey villain. Which, i mean, isn't necessarily bad. Implementation is key. So far... not impressed, and this appears to be bad-tropey.

    And that dungeon was Zul'Drak. Zul'Gurub was in Vanilla, and then re-used in Cataclysm, and is in Stranglethorn Vale. Zul'Drak is a zone and 5-man dungeon in Northrend.

  2. #82
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Reminder the lich king did that literally multiple times per zone in wotlk, he literally has the chance to kill you several times but keeps saying "i will let you live, for now..."
    Perfect examplebeing the end of the zulgurub dungeon.
    Yes, and people have complained about Arthas doing the moustache twirl speech too.
    It's usually the first thing someone points out when they criticise wrath.

    So what's your point?
    Last edited by Raetary; 2022-11-30 at 07:06 AM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  3. #83
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post



    Why does a dragon need to have the same motivations as petty millennial writers? Why can't a dragon just be a rawr dragon?

    .
    Because the dragons of WoW are not Rawr dragons. They are not DnD dragons, who hoard goal, takes castles and kill anybody who comes into their lair. They are highly intelligent, magical and social beings, with personalities and a high amount of emotional connection to the world.

    So yeah, its actually quite fitting for a dragon like Wrathion or anyone else to have motivations. The WoW world would be quite boring without it.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    So... the story is not looking that bright is it?.

    I actually think that Raszageth had a good start as a villian, with good motives and an understandable stand when it comes to standing against he players - betrayal and imprisonment. But instead of building upon that, it does sound they are gonna make her a hatred filled jackass, that would enjoy torturing people because she finds it fun...

    I hope it goes better for her brothers and sisters when they are freed.
    Betrayal and imprisonment...
    How novel. The image of a bald guy pops into my head for some reason.

  5. #85
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Betrayal and imprisonment...
    How novel. The image of a bald guy pops into my head for some reason.
    Hey, motives are one thing, but telling a good story about that motivation is another You can have the best setup in the world and still crash the landing when it comes to making a relatable revenge story.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Hey, motives are one thing, but telling a good story about that motivation is another You can have the best setup in the world and still crash the landing when it comes to making a relatable revenge story.
    You want a relatable story? Start by making about someone WE GET TO KNOW and GET TO CARE ABOUT, instead of going "aaaaand before I forget, here's the Big Bad that I've known about for 50,000 years pinky promise but never mentioned referenced or hinted at in any way for uh, completely legitimate and important reasons, trust me it's bad, real bad, can't show you or have you see for yourself, take my word for it B.A.D. with a capital B, now please be appropriately invested and relate to this story, kaaay?".

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Hey, motives are one thing, but telling a good story about that motivation is another You can have the best setup in the world and still crash the landing when it comes to making a relatable revenge story.
    Just saying, a feeling of betrayal followed by imprisonment is literally the foundation for J'lor.

  8. #88
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Just saying, a feeling of betrayal followed by imprisonment is literally the foundation for J'lor.
    I think it is even one of the founding emotions behind the idea of an antagonist overall. From the Count of Monte Cristo to the Dark Knight and Skyfall, the idea of being wrongly put into isolation is what bad guys are made up off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    You want a relatable story? Start by making about someone WE GET TO KNOW and GET TO CARE ABOUT, instead of going "aaaaand before I forget, here's the Big Bad that I've known about for 50,000 years pinky promise but never mentioned referenced or hinted at in any way for uh, completely legitimate and important reasons, trust me it's bad, real bad, can't show you or have you see for yourself, take my word for it B.A.D. with a capital B, now please be appropriately invested and relate to this story, kaaay?".
    But that would require Blizzard to plan their bad-guys in advance and we all know how hard that is to for a team of 20+ writers O.o Making breadcrump trails are not one of the basic elements of story writing nor the idea of foreshadowing. You have to have some patience with them, cause afterall, its not like they have had years to prepare...
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  9. #89
    It's weird how Danuser can't come up with a brand new villain who's actually engaging. Hell, I would rather trade Raszageth with Sintharia or Chromatus. They aren't much, but at least they look cool and have already appeared in the lore.

  10. #90
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I like it.

    I felt like these last two years (or however long Shadowlands was), WoW did not have a villain. The Jailer was the absolute worst, maybe on the same level of Grom Hellscream, which will forever be the last boss that got replaced by another.
    To see a real villain, however stereotypical, is refreshing. We have already seen Raszageth more times than we saw the Jailer during the first half of SL.
    I also like her design, she is supposed to look primal and messed up.

    The only complaints I have are her voice, which is pretty bad and not suited for the character, and the faces during cutscenes. It bothers me how expressive they are, way too much. For example, they always do the weird eyeroll thing when they need to say something that is supposed to be emotional.

  11. #91
    shouldnt a dragon be small a fry compared to the jailer

  12. #92
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Yes, and people have complained about Arthas doing the moustache twirl speech too.
    It's usually the first thing someone points out when they criticise wrath.

    So what's your point?
    That people are praising wotlk and using it as an example of amazing compared to "this garbage"
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Quest Text is not a game mechanic. Its descriptive. If Blizzard wants you to go an NPC that isn't near you, and doesn't want said NPC to "talk" to you from long range, then they have no issues (and never have) just having you get the next quest stage as "Alextrasza motions you over" or "You should go see if you can figure out what the dragons are doing here and talk to Alextrasza".

    But they had her clearly imparting words to you, when that wasn't necessary, and in other situations like that, they simply provide you with a generic reason to go over and talk to the NPC in question; in this case, she's imparting deliberate words/information to you. While nowhere near you.



    You're too focused on being a massive pedantic jackhole that you are deliberately ignoring the part where the person you're arguing against already said it doesnt have to literally be psychic telepathy. It could be literally anything. Magic, innate ability to vocalize without moving their mouths, psychic powers, whatever. You're so hung up on the super-specific 'telepathy' angle that its almost worrying.

    Some Dragons (or at the very least, Alextrasza) can make people hear them from a distance. We know this because its literally happened.

    Arguing otherwise just makes you look insane.

    Wether them not moving their mouths in this cinematic is just Blizzard's laziness, or not, is immaterial. Because we've already seen it happen, in-game, we know its possible.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The difference is that the Lich Kings actual plan was to let you get powerful so that when he insta-killed you all at the end he could raise you all to be extremely powerful Scourge Lieutenants to lead his armies. Like, he WANTED you to get powerful. If not for Deus Ex Tirion breaking Frostmourne, Arthas' plan worked. He won. He killed us all and was going to complete his plan until Tirion's impossibe-to-predict escape from his ice prison shattered Frostmourne.

    It does not appear that this rando hitherto unknown Mega Dragon has that plan in mind.

    Its just being a tropey villain. Which, i mean, isn't necessarily bad. Implementation is key. So far... not impressed, and this appears to be bad-tropey.

    And that dungeon was Zul'Drak. Zul'Gurub was in Vanilla, and then re-used in Cataclysm, and is in Stranglethorn Vale. Zul'Drak is a zone and 5-man dungeon in Northrend.
    And it's been explained how it's not telepathy and is just game mechanics. Learn to fucking read, maybe. But hey I guess I should expect this from someone so quick to turn to ad hominem. Game mechanics=/= lore. You and other people need to stop acting like it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    That people are praising wotlk and using it as an example of amazing compared to "this garbage"
    It's because this cutscene IS garbage.

  14. #94
    From a lore perspective, I thought that they had a decent enough hook with the conflict between the Primalists and the regular Dragons, but so far it seems like Razageth is just in "I hate the world" mode and is already using an unhealthy amount of mustache-twirling. I'll give that story-line time to play out more before I fully judge it but given Blizzard's history, I'm not optimistic.

    From an emotional standpoint...eh. The animation was good, but the cutscene just felt kind of hollow to me. Other than the potential danger to Azeroth, why do I personally care about this fight or about the beef between the two factions of dragons? I like Alexstrasza and the other aspects, but I don't really care about them all that much. They aren't in the story very often and WoW has always been pretty bad about getting me to quickly invest in characters. Honestly, just in general, WoW has never done a good job of making me feel like I had a stake in the story and it looks like that hasn't changed.

  15. #95
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    I just can't give flying(ha) fuck anymore about wow storylines nowadays, at least in this kind of storytelling, focus on NPCS i don't care, or im not invested to, or have nothing to do with my character, my race or my faction;

    Actually i don't like when they focus on NPCS rather than groups/factions and do wolrdbuilding from there, which is why i think everything after mop has being dumpsterfire, and this changed around wtlk/cataclysm gradually.

    I simple cannot give a fuck about alextreza, let lone fucking Wrathion, why this piece of shit is taking screentime, do people actually like him, or think he is a compelling character to follow nd be boss around? fucker just ghosted everyone when the legion came, fuck him.

    This seems like tis going to be another bfa/shadowlands batch of poor stories, following around npcs that only the devs care about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    It's weird how Danuser can't come up with a brand new villain who's actually engaging. Hell, I would rather trade Raszageth with Sintharia or Chromatus. They aren't much, but at least they look cool and have already appeared in the lore.
    Cromatus was such an obvious and perfect choice to be the enemy and boss of the expansion, fucking hell, he is wow version of Tiamat with an arguably, indestructible body, they had all ready and set with his previous interactions, but no.

    Put this into the missed opportunities the devs made, right behind the dragon isles not being flying islands, and just generic islands pandaria 2.0

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Lfol what?

    Almost as if there was a film that handled this same situation very well.

    I have no idea who that is.
    Doesn't matter though; large mouths moving absurdly fast looks silly precisely because it clashes so hard with how reality works.

    In that sense telepathy is a much more elegant workaround.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    I have no idea who that is.
    Doesn't matter though; large mouths moving absurdly fast looks silly precisely because it clashes so hard with how reality works.

    In that sense telepathy is a much more elegant workaround.
    I'm sure that's it. And not just laziness/an inability to animate their mouths moving.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I'm sure that's it. And not just laziness/an inability to animate their mouths moving.
    Oh i'm sure that played its part as well, no worries.
    Doesn't change the conceptual bizarreness of expecting a creature with a mouth the size of a bus to produce humanoid speech though.

    Usually there are workarounds by subtly-ish emphasizing the inhuman/utterly alien anatomy, think of Gravemind from Halo or the Elcor from Mass Effect.
    But that's harder to do with dragons established as they are in WoW.


    In hindsight Gravemind uses a hybrid means of communication, clearly "telepathically" listening in on mental communication between Cortana and Master Chief. Still the physical component of its speech shows the difficulties of making such a thing convincing in the cases of huge creatures.
    Last edited by loras; 2022-11-30 at 06:22 PM.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #99
    Blizzard retcons are always hilariously bad, the state of the writing department in this company is the biggest meme in the gaming industry.

    So now Deathwing turned mad by the oldgods cause he needed to borrow their power to defeat a PROTODRAKE when he was a fully empowered dragon aspect empowered by the titans? lul

    The protodrakes for 20+ years in the lore were mindless beasts, the titans gave them intelligence by empowering them. BUT NOW? I mean raszageth and the others seem quite intelligent? Hell she's even stronger than Alex, lol.

    What a meme company. Their writing is so cliche it's the same shit we JUST DID? Person was imprisoned and wants revenge.... ooo cool, and I wouldn't be surprised if Wrathion turns evil in this expansion like his father, we beat him and he returns to being a good guy again Typical writing in wow.
    Last edited by OokOok; 2022-11-30 at 06:36 PM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    Blizzard retcons are always hilariously bad, the state of the writing department in this company is the biggest meme in the gaming industry.

    So now Deathwing turned mad by the oldgods cause he needed to borrow their power to defeat a PROTODRAKE when he was a fully empowered dragon aspect empowered by the titans? lul

    The protodrakes for 20+ years in the lore were mindless beasts, the titans gave them intelligence by empowering them. BUT NOW? I mean raszageth and the others seem quite intelligent? Hell she's even stronger than Alex, lol.

    What a meme company. Their writing is so cliche it's the same shit we JUST DID? Person was imprisoned and wants revenge.... ooo cool, and I wouldn't be surprised if Wrathion turns evil in this expansion like his father, we beat him and he returns to being a good guy again Typical writing in wow.
    There is this, though elaboration on Blizz's part could save some of it.
    Sadly we'll probably not get that, or it'll be handled incompetently.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

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