An insight on Bitcoin

[cubby]

Well, there isn't any regulator oversight.

They haven't even decided how to classify crypto in the United States - currency or commodity.

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Just in case anyone is unclear as to just how far this brilliantly insidious long-con goes:

Sam Bankman-Fried says a $16 million Bahamian house in his parents' name was actually meant to be for FTX staff

Whoopsie-daisies...I put that multimillion dollar asset in my parents name instead of the companies name. Gosh oh golly, my bad. Sorry about your life savings though. /s

[Edge-]

They haven't even decided how to classify crypto in the United States - currency or commodity.

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Just in case anyone is unclear as to just how far this brilliantly insidious long-con goes:

Sam Bankman-Fried says a $16 million Bahamian house in his parents' name was actually meant to be for FTX staff

Whoopsie-daisies...I put that multimillion dollar asset in my parents name instead of the companies name. Gosh oh golly, my bad. Sorry about your life savings though. /s

Man, for the guy running the company, and whose parents were signing on property, he sure doesn't seem like he knew anything that was actually going on at his company.

Is he really going to try the, "Oh no, I'm just an ignorant fool who was in over my head and I just happened to accidentally engage in massive financial fraud!"

[cubby]

Man, for the guy running the company, and whose parents were signing on property, he sure doesn't seem like he knew anything that was actually going on at his company.

Is he really going to try the, "Oh no, I'm just an ignorant fool who was in over my head and I just happened to accidentally engage in massive financial fraud!"

He's laying the groundwork for that exact defense. Everything I've seen him say has been "we didn't see the full extent of the problem until it was too late, but each of our individual moves were sound". Which is exactly the defense you would put forth in a malfeasance/fraud criminal case, to avoid the elements of wire fraud (and other business related fraud) that would result in jail time. He basically wants a fine and a slap on the wrist, and he'll go his merry way with upwards of $3B in cash at his disposal.

SBF's background was in arbitrage (specifically crypto arbitrage). He did well, but not excessively so, and moved into Crypto Exchanges to make more. FXT and Alameda are the result of that, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the current outcome was exactly what he was looking for all along.

With $3B+ in cash/liquidities, he can continue his arbitrage efforts and pile on the cash, because in arbitrage the real money comes with volume.

Frankly, if you ignore the criminality, it's impressive. SBF knew crypto was entirely unregulated (as I said earlier, the United States hasn't even decided officially if cyrpto is a currency or a commodity), and was intimately familiar with all the ins-and-outs of trading cyrpto. It was the perfect opportunity. He even bought back his own FTT (essentially FTX "stock") to inflate the value of FTX, to give him more leverage and thereby garner more real money investment.

[NED funded]

I haven't kept up with every twist of this story, but is this largely looking like a massive failure of regulator oversight overall, especially within the crypto space?

Because that's what it sure seems like.

FTX the bahamas company doesnt operate in the US so regulatory oversight was kinda whatever from the US govs end.

The other countries should have caught FTX tho given that it was their citizens at risk

[Edge-]

FTX the bahamas company doesnt operate in the US so regulatory oversight was kinda whatever from the US govs end.

The other countries should have caught FTX tho given that it was their citizens at risk

I'm saying that there's no actual regulatory oversight for crypto yet, and that lack of any regulatory oversight is a huge factor in this. They operated in the US, that means US regulatory oversight if it existed. I imagine there was some SEC oversight with their stocks and all, but how they managed to get through those regulatory hurdles is a huge question mark to me given how hilariously transparent the fraud all appears.

[NED funded]

I'm saying that there's no actual regulatory oversight for crypto yet, and that lack of any regulatory oversight is a huge factor in this. They operated in the US, that means US regulatory oversight if it existed. I imagine there was some SEC oversight with their stocks and all, but how they managed to get through those regulatory hurdles is a huge question mark to me given how hilariously transparent the fraud all appears.

The entity FTX US operated in the US not FTX global proper. They didnt offer the same products as other FTXs thats why they werent as tightly watched as they probably should have been.

Saying that, it also means they are prob better positioned

https://mobile.twitter.com/FTX_Offic...55109687517184

Who knows tho. The FTX saga has been wild to watch

[jonnysensible]

he must be looking at 20 years for wire fraud and 12 for embezzlement at least.

I like how he says 'we didnt expect a bank run' Yea mate you weren't running a fucking bank thats why.

[Edge-]

he must be looking at 20 years for wire fraud and 12 for embezzlement at least.

I like how he says 'we didnt expect a bank run' Yea mate you weren't running a fucking bank thats why.

Didn't they run that tiny bank in Texas or something? Does that count?

[jonnysensible]

Didn't they run that tiny bank in Texas or something? Does that count?

this is a pretty decent article about the shenanigans

https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022...t-an-accident/

the media are soft balling him so bad its puke inducing.

[cubby]

There’s also a definite flavor of, “Well, I’m a genius and even I couldn’t keep track of everything!”

Like, being a CEO day 1 is “know your assets and liabilities” and he’s describing losing track of 9 billion in liabilities.

Do not pass go, go directly to jail.

You'll love this then:

Sam Bankman-Fried says he 'misaccounted' $8 billion after FTX customers wired money to hedge fund Alameda and the cash was counted twice

Sam Bankman-Fried says he "misaccounted" $8 billion after some FTX customer funds were mistakenly counted twice, Bloomberg reported.

Whoopsie-Daisies - I double booked that $8 billion. Sorry about that, and all your life savings. But I got mine!

[Edge-]

By the way, he's agreed to testify before congress, which will be a waste of time.

"Members of Congress, I am just simply too stupid to orchestrate such a massive fraud."

[hellhamster]

The funniest thing is how the media still portray him as a Saint and that he is young and is still learning from his mistakes, and that the whole thing is an honest mistake.

This guy belongs in jail for fraud. He gambled away customer savings which were not to be touched according to the TOS. Period.

This is a good scenario where we can identify which media and politicians are corrupt, because he is 100% NOT going to jail as I have already mentioned, he has spent way too much money on political parties and media to ensure he is untouchable.

I don't know which is worse, that billions were lost, or that the justice and political system of America can be bought and paid for.

[NED funded]

The funniest thing is how the media still portray him as a Saint and that he is young and is still learning from his mistakes, and that the whole thing is an honest mistake.

This guy belongs in jail for fraud. He gambled away customer savings which were not to be touched according to the TOS. Period.[/QUOTE]

I dont think it was on their terms of service that they wouldn't touch ALL customer accounts. There are prob different tiers of accounts. Like one that generates a higher yield and those that are basically putting your money in a box and giving it to FTX. If you are the former then thats the risk of doing business, where do you think the interest came from? FTX was never a bank and didn't advertise itself as such, its not FDIC insured and neither it was regulated to the level a bank was.

The latter are the ones that should be made whole since they didn't agree to the degeneracy

[cubby]

Sam Bankman Fried as a pilot:

"I'm sorry everyone, we are 1000 miles away from land and uh, we are out of gas. What happened is I gave the jet keys to my buddy and he siphoned out a lot of the fuel to go joyriding in his Learjet. He's done this many times in the past and he normally puts it back when he can and it's fine, but I guess he didn't this time, and silly me, I forgot to check the gas tank before we took off. You see, our fuel gauge only checks the gas levels in one of the tanks, the other tank was built before we had fuel gauges and so we always just kept track of it by hand on a post it note, and I lost track of it. Turns out it was empty! This is really embarrassing for me, I'm normally on top of these things, and in retrospect I really should have capped the amount that I allowed my friend to siphon out of the gas tank that didn't have a fuel gauge - today I discovered that it's a really big problem when your airplane runs out of fuel. Well, at least I know better for next time. That said, right now I am 100% focused on getting more gas back in this plane."

That's pretty good, and fairly accurate on how SBF is handling all this publicly. It's amazing how the media is basically giving him a free ride, on what is apparently amounting to a 3-year-long con and his absconding with more than $3B.

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This guy belongs in jail for fraud. He gambled away customer savings which were not to be touched according to the TOS. Period.

I dont think it was on their terms of service that they wouldn't touch ALL customer accounts. There are prob different tiers of accounts. Like one that generates a higher yield and those that are basically putting your money in a box and giving it to FTX. If you are the former then thats the risk of doing business, where do you think the interest came from? FTX was never a bank and didn't advertise itself as such, its not FDIC insured and neither it was regulated to the level a bank was.

The latter are the ones that should be made whole since they didn't agree to the degeneracy[/QUOTE]

He'll end up paying a fine, and not be charged criminally. He gave huge money to politicians, which was the smart play, in a con like this.

[hellhamster]

I honestly don't think it was a conscious con. I think it was a complete lack of concern with risk. I mean, I don't think you can become a crypto billionaire without having extremely high risk tolerance. Caroline Ellison talked at one point about how she didn't like stop losses and how you needed to be really comfortable with risk in crypto. Basically I think they had a view that things would always come back if they could just ride it out long enough, and they found themselves doing things like hiding losses using FTT, and they probably laughed about it but assumed it was mostly legal and that no one would find out anyway, but then things just went too far.

I do think his public persona is completely fake - you don't have the worldview that he pretends to have and then spend endless hours trading away silly fake currencies, searching desperately for every advantage you can find.

All the bribes for media and political leeway, this was a 100% calculated contingency. Rest assured, he will spend the rest of his days, and his customers' billions, somewhere in the Bahamas. His customers who lost money? Better luck next time suckas.

I've fucking called it a year ago.

[jonnysensible]

All the bribes for media and political leeway, this was a 100% calculated contingency. Rest assured, he will spend the rest of his days, and his customers' billions, somewhere in the Bahamas. His customers who lost money? Better luck next time suckas.

I've fucking called it a year ago.

you were still shilling crypto a year ago

hes gonna get pinched at some point probably a few years from now as investigations take that sort of time (theranos etc)

[cubby]

SBF wants to start a new business.

You just can't make this shit up.

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I honestly don't think it was a conscious con. I think it was a complete lack of concern with risk. I mean, I don't think you can become a crypto billionaire without having extremely high risk tolerance. Caroline Ellison talked at one point about how she didn't like stop losses and how you needed to be really comfortable with risk in crypto. Basically I think they had a view that things would always come back if they could just ride it out long enough, and they found themselves doing things like hiding losses using FTT, and they probably laughed about it but assumed it was mostly legal and that no one would find out anyway, but then things just went too far.

I do think his public persona is completely fake - you don't have the worldview that he pretends to have and then spend endless hours trading away silly fake currencies, searching desperately for every advantage you can find.

I would have to agree that your assessment has significant merit. While SBF's FTX rein could look like a con, and while I will continue to call it the long con (for various reasons), it's more likely that what you said above more accurately describes the situation. Because if it had worked, whatever form that would have taken, he would have access to more than the $3B+ he has now.

[hellhamster]

you were still shilling crypto a year ago

hes gonna get pinched at some point probably a few years from now as investigations take that sort of time (theranos etc)

I'm always pro crypto. I've always been against FTX. Learn the difference.

[cubby]

hes gonna get pinched at some point probably a few years from now as investigations take that sort of time (theranos etc)

We should place some friendly bets on how SBF fairs. I don't think he's going to see any jail time, and end up paying a [relatively] mediocre fine (see also in the millions).

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I wonder if there was a moment when he realized that he had gone too far. I wonder a lot of things. But we’re not ever getting honest answers from him.

The one thing we'll never know is the truth. He already spun a fantasy for the media to get his story out ahead of the prosecution, and so far it's working well. Most of the media is playing his game. I'm sure being flown down to the Bahamas for interviews and staying at 5-star resorts isn't hurting anything.

Reminder, interest rates are at around 5% for a saving account. If SBF but his entire $3B in a savings account (which of course he didn't), he'd be making $410,000 a day in interest alone. That can buy a LOT of positive media hype.

[Poopymonster]

Can we just take a moment to recognize the real winners of the MagicBeanCoins?

Nvidia and AMD.