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  1. #421
    Well, the Red Wizards of Thay were separated by a particular school of magic, originally ranked, with the top rank as "zulkir." The zulkir of necromancy was Szass Tam and he forcibly took over Thay.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Well, the Red Wizards of Thay were separated by a particular school of magic, originally ranked, with the top rank as "zulkir." The zulkir of necromancy was Szass Tam and he forcibly took over Thay.
    Two editions happened after that novel trilogy

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Two editions happened after that novel trilogy
    I'm ashamed to say to say that it's been a long while since I've been to a bookstore.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'm ashamed to say to say that it's been a long while since I've been to a bookstore.
    Oh I stopped following the lore after the 4E debacle (I will defend the ruleset but the changes to the lore were just pointless); my campaigns are in their own continuity now. But I think they've reset things in Thay to an extent after the whole "Tam kills everyone and tries to become a god" plot.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    one thing in the movie's favor is popularity of Stranger things. even people who are not DnD nerds are aware of it. between that and combination of Chris Pine, Michele Rodriguez and Hugh Grant - people might actualy go to see it regardless of their attachment or lack of thereof to DnD.

    Me? I'm going to the movie theater for sure.. and even considering splurging for popcorn. maybe. we shall see.
    Why considering popcorn? price? quality? diet?

    I need ma popcorn in those movies.
    /spit@Blizzard

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Can we go back to an era of minimalist poster design? Nobody ever gives a shit about these "pile of faces and random gibberish crammed onto a poster" posters. Give me a simple image with, like, three total colors. Be evocative rather than trying to fit everyone's goddamned face in descending size of importance.
    That would work if they didn't cast these actors. They paid for Pine, Lillis, Page, and Rodriquez to appeal to mainstream audiences and women.

    It would be bad business to have an abstract or more "artsy" poster when you spend money on these actors specifically. Jean-Page is red hot in demand right now and gets a ton of engagement, Lillis is also an in-demand actress, Pine has broad appeal (he's one of the few acts that tests well with men and women equally) and Rodriguez has cross-over appeal as well.

    This poster sucks (IMO), but it kinda can't be any other way. In my opinion, I think they should have gone something more along the lines of Jurassic Park Dominion, Fast & Furious 7, or Wakanda Forever. Those are a bunch of faces too, rightly so, but did it a little better and got better audience reception.

  7. #427
    on original characters vs established stories. you can go 2 ways with a DnD narrative: sincerely serious or completely bonkers comedy. they seem to have chosen the second one and THAT I believe is at least in part due to growing popularity of DnD podcasts. We also already have at least 2 that I can think of "serious" DnD movies and they flopped. the problem with taking DnD narratives seriously is that it almost immediately loses any individuality and in the eyes of those not into the tabletop or video games or novels - turns into a generic copycat fantasy.

    and TBH? I'm glad they went with comedy approach. I know people are all iffy on the tail of Love and Thunder, but the difference is that Thor was dealing with a lot more serious topics, so the balance of comedy and sadness was off (James Gunn is really good at that balance of off the wall weird funny followed by a gut punch). with this movie though it doesn't seem like they are going into any sort of complex topics so full on escapist comedy that is aware of how silly it is - to me seems like a better approach.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    on original characters vs established stories. you can go 2 ways with a DnD narrative: sincerely serious or completely bonkers comedy. they seem to have chosen the second one and THAT I believe is at least in part due to growing popularity of DnD podcasts. We also already have at least 2 that I can think of "serious" DnD movies and they flopped. the problem with taking DnD narratives seriously is that it almost immediately loses any individuality and in the eyes of those not into the tabletop or video games or novels - turns into a generic copycat fantasy.
    Well, they flop not because it was serious, but because it was awful, not rly related.

    and TBH? I'm glad they went with comedy approach. I know people are all iffy on the tail of Love and Thunder, but the difference is that Thor was dealing with a lot more serious topics, so the balance of comedy and sadness was off (James Gunn is really good at that balance of off the wall weird funny followed by a gut punch). with this movie though it doesn't seem like they are going into any sort of complex topics so full on escapist comedy that is aware of how silly it is - to me seems like a better approach.
    The problem with the comedy is, if it's goes over the top, idiotic, is immersion breaking and can take you away from the movie with nonsense/out of places jokes, its more cringe/eyerolling than funny.

    That bit of the guy giving the artifact to him, and he immediately throw to someone was not just forced, it was rly bad delivered, missed the timing and timing is important in a comedy movie.

    Legend of vox machina animation was able to make something funny and serious without going over the top, so a bar was being set in the dnd thing

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    on original characters vs established stories. you can go 2 ways with a DnD narrative: sincerely serious or completely bonkers comedy. they seem to have chosen the second one and THAT I believe is at least in part due to growing popularity of DnD podcasts. We also already have at least 2 that I can think of "serious" DnD movies and they flopped. the problem with taking DnD narratives seriously is that it almost immediately loses any individuality and in the eyes of those not into the tabletop or video games or novels - turns into a generic copycat fantasy.

    and TBH? I'm glad they went with comedy approach. I know people are all iffy on the tail of Love and Thunder, but the difference is that Thor was dealing with a lot more serious topics, so the balance of comedy and sadness was off (James Gunn is really good at that balance of off the wall weird funny followed by a gut punch). with this movie though it doesn't seem like they are going into any sort of complex topics so full on escapist comedy that is aware of how silly it is - to me seems like a better approach.
    I think you can tell the difference between people who've actually played D&D versus those who've just read books and such. Because most tables end up with ridiculous bullshit all the time. Trying to befriend the mimic. Adopting the goblin your DM named Bibble in a moment of panic. The bard trying to seduce the dragon. Even in serious games, this stuff pops up constantly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Legend of vox machina animation was able to make something funny and serious without going over the top, so a bar was being set in the dnd thing
    Given that Scanlan and Grog exist, I find that claim completely impossible to take seriously. It's the same kind of humour. Season 1 is just Percy's story, primarily, and he's the "dark, serious" one in a party of nutcases.


  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I think you can tell the difference between people who've actually played D&D versus those who've just read books and such. Because most tables end up with ridiculous bullshit all the time. Trying to befriend the mimic. Adopting the goblin your DM named Bibble in a moment of panic. The bard trying to seduce the dragon. Even in serious games, this stuff pops up constantly.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Given that Scanlan and Grog exist, I find that claim completely impossible to take seriously. It's the same kind of humour. Season 1 is just Percy's story, primarily, and he's the "dark, serious" one in a party of nutcases.
    I mean... my character ended up with an army of wolves in my very first campaign though I lost one of them to our rogue over a particularly choice cut of meat and their names were Fluffy, Notfluffy and Thor and don't even get me started on current campaign shenanigans :P and both campaigns were meant to be serious... ish. I have played in roughly 4 campaigns so far and the only one that managed to stay mostly serious... mostly... was a homebrew pathfinder that I joined about half way through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    That bit of the guy giving the artifact to him, and he immediately throw to someone was not just forced, it was rly bad delivered, missed the timing and timing is important in a comedy movie.

    Legend of vox machina animation was able to make something funny and serious without going over the top, so a bar was being set in the dnd thing
    that bit was hysterical and delivery was perfect. made me cackle outloud. moreover... vox machina... VOX MACHINA is your gauge for serious dnd campaign where from the very first few minutes they not only slaughter actual serious heroes, they set up from the start the characters as basically losers? Percy is their sole serious character and he just highlights how bonkers the rest of them are. yes even Pike.

    from all the trailers, this movie has that same vibe.

    and while yes first DnD movie was a cheesefest that I unironically love even though its most certainly terrible, part of the reason it was terrible is that the only one who understood the inherent silliness of the setting was Jeremy Irons. The sequel was actualy decent... but in an extremely forgetful way.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    that bit was hysterical and delivery was perfect. made me cackle outloud. moreover... vox machina... VOX MACHINA is your gauge for serious dnd campaign where from the very first few minutes they not only slaughter actual serious heroes, they set up from the start the characters as basically losers? Percy is their sole serious character and he just highlights how bonkers the rest of them are. yes even Pike.
    I don't see how anyone can point to Pike's bard as being "too silly" and then point to Sam Riegel's Scanlan as "totally serious and not over the top". Even just in the animated show alone.

    This guy;



    And that's by no means peak silliness. But it's more tasteful and less risque than a lot of them.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-12-07 at 01:16 AM.


  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    that bit was hysterical and delivery was perfect. made me cackle outloud.
    Yeah, it made me eyeroll rly hard, it was rly forced, i knew was going to happen th moment he starts talking

    moreover... vox machina... VOX MACHINA is your gauge for serious dnd campaign where from the very first few minutes they not only slaughter actual serious heroes, they set up from the start the characters as basically losers? Percy is their sole serious character and he just highlights how bonkers the rest of them are. yes even Pike.
    I think you ignored on purpose, or just didn't read the part where i said both, serious and fun? If you think the storyline of people being murdered and massacred by the undead army of undead and a part member controlled by a demon and the other one almost dying was not serious then, well, not on me.

    And everyone is "serious" when it need be, only Grog and scanlan are the real goofy ones, and they are not over the op who derail the narrative neither are immersion breaking
    from all the trailers, this movie has that same vibe.
    The old one yes, this is one not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Given that Scanlan and Grog exist, I find that claim completely impossible to take seriously. It's the same kind of humour. Season 1 is just Percy's story, primarily, and he's the "dark, serious" one in a party of nutcases.
    Please, tell me then how they, with their jokes, were able to completely derail the narrative and make a scene so idiotic to a point where is stays unbelievable in the context they were in.

    Like i said, im not against humor, im against over-the-top retardation that will take way from the enjoyment, their role was not big, they don't appear much either way

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I don't see how anyone can point to Pike's bard as being "too silly" and then point to Sam Riegel's Scanlan as "totally serious and not over the top". Even just in the animated show alone.

    This guy;


    And that's by no means peak silliness. But it's more tasteful and less risque than a lot of them.
    Good thing "this guy" is not leading the party, and he is not the focus on the animation, his jokes also, not forced.

    Plus, two trailers and this "bard" didn't use magic yet, i rly hope he is saving for the actual movie, otherwise it's going to be garbage

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Please, tell me then how they, with their jokes, were able to completely derail the narrative and make a scene so idiotic to a point where is stays unbelievable in the context they were in.
    You're describing your own bias, here, not something objectively wrong with Honor Among Thieves. There was no "derailing the narrative" or making any scene "unbelievable" in the trailer, not if you can wrap your suspension of disbelief around owlbears and magic and so forth at least.

    Like i said, im not against humor, im against over-the-top retardation that will take way from the enjoyment, their role was not big, they don't appear much either way
    See, that's the problem, this isn't an argument and you make no points. You just shit on one thing and praise another and can't actually explain the difference.


  14. #434
    The trailer is really giving off a fantasy guardians of the galaxy vibe. People weren't expecting much of it either.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The trailer is really giving off a fantasy guardians of the galaxy vibe. People weren't expecting much of it either.
    yep, its exactly the vibe that i got and I'm here for it. and people who do not think Chris Pine cannot be funny - should see him in "Into the woods" the movie itself takes itself way WAY too seriously (while the play deals with some serious topics, its still a farce at the core) and Chris Pine was one of the few people who understood the assignment.

    P.S. just because you know the joke is going to happen doesn't make it forced or unfunny. but you know, to each their own. Syegfryed seems to dislike most things and its like he is looking to fight fault in everything, so I'd say maybe, my dude you should change what you watch on youtube, go outside and touch grass or something. enjoy a thing every once in a while instead of finding ways to shit on everything. it doesn't make you appear smart or refined or whatever else. its just... sad.

  16. #436
    It's definitely an interesting argument whether a D&D movie should be about translating a D&D campaign to the screen or about adapting D&D's lore. If the former, it absolutely should be an action comedy. I've never been able to keep a campaign straight, not even horror campaigns.

    I mean they chose to have a party with a bard and a paladin. In my experience that combo ends up pornographic at the campaign table.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-12-07 at 09:52 AM.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're describing your own bias, here, not something objectively wrong with Honor Among Thieves.
    And why this isn't your own bias? projecting much?
    There was no "derailing the narrative" or making any scene "unbelievable" in the trailer, not if you can wrap your suspension of disbelief around owlbears and magic and so forth at least.
    No one said a thing about owlbears and magic but over the top jokes that can becomes way too idiotic and nonsensical


    See, that's the problem, this isn't an argument and you make no points. You just shit on one thing and praise another and can't actually explain the difference.
    You need a draw or something? im saying humor should have a limit, if its just forced or too much it spoils the movie, one of the reasons Thor ragnarok worked and love and thunder didn't.

    Saying "b-b-ut that show also have jokes!" does not negate the argument, at all, its just another strawman since im no advocating for no jokes or funny movie

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    P.S. just because you know the joke is going to happen doesn't make it forced or unfunny. but you know, to each their own. Syegfryed seems to dislike most things and its like he is looking to fight fault in everything, so I'd say maybe, my dude you should change what you watch on youtube, go outside and touch grass or something. enjoy a thing every once in a while instead of finding ways to shit on everything. it doesn't make you appear smart or refined or whatever else. its just... sad.
    Lmao, i dislike shit things, sorry if i don't lower my expectation to like brainless stuff

    Im not shitting on everything, there is plenty of stuff i praise if its good, if you don't have an argument don't make stuff up to target me

  18. #438
    Charming rogue balancing out the serious paladin, with rogue having moments that define leadership. He seems to me to be channeling Han Solo.
    I have hopes that the writing is well done.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And why this isn't your own bias? projecting much?
    I'm not the one arguing a movie's shit based off a trailer and literally no specific justification.

    No one said a thing about owlbears and magic but over the top jokes that can becomes way too idiotic and nonsensical
    You haven't made an argument that the jokes are either. And your citation of Legend of Vox Machina indicates hypocrisy on that point, because the jokes there are easily way over the top of what we see in the Honor Among Thieves trailer.

    You need a draw or something? im saying humor should have a limit, if its just forced or too much it spoils the movie, one of the reasons Thor ragnarok worked and love and thunder didn't.
    Yeah, this is still not an argument. Ragnarok is about as joke-filled as Love And Thunder. You're still not making a legitimate explanation of anything.

    Saying "b-b-ut that show also have jokes!" does not negate the argument, at all, its just another strawman since im no advocating for no jokes or funny movie
    No, you're saying "be more like this other thing" which is exactly like or even more so than the one you're complaining about. That's why it doesn't make sense. Nothing you're saying holds up.


  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Charming rogue balancing out the serious paladin, with rogue having moments that define leadership. He seems to me to be channeling Han Solo.
    I have hopes that the writing is well done.
    Same, I'm not a dnd guy but the trailers look brilliant, just stupid fun.

    This will probably be one of the first films I got to the cinema to see in ages as I don't like cinemas.

    I just hope it isn't one of those films where you could have just watched the trailer.

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