Dragonflight and Shadowlands have the same story

[bullseyed]

In Shadowlands, the Jailer was locked up by his siblings when they refused the power of the First Ones. He escaped and vowed to make them all serve him in revenge. He promised to remake the world with his power. The 4 covenants came together to join as one power and defeat him, for Azeroth.

In Dragonflight, Razagath was locked up by her siblings when they refused the power of the Elements and went with Titan power. She escaped and vowed to make them all serve her in revenge. She promises to remake the world with her power. The 5 dragonflights are coming together to join as one power and defeat her, for Azeroth.



Why is one story "bad" and the other story "good"?

[Aucald]

Raszagath isn't a sibling of the Aspects, she's not even the same species of dragon as them anymore. Also, two stories sharing some themes and beats isn't a binary on/off switch in terms of quality - it's what you do with the story that determines its merits, not its component parts. Dragonflight and Shadowlands share some basic themes and details of the setting, whether or not the former ends up in the same general boat as the latter will depend on the telling.

[Cheezits]

Why is one story "bad" and the other story "good"?

Execution. We didn't know why the Jailer did what he did and we still don't really know. Razsageth says exactly what the Primalist motivation is, it's easily understandable and arguably sympathetic, and she actually fights back against the heroes as opposed to Zovaal who just scoffs at us up until the last fight (where he still doesn't take us seriously).

You have a point with the "imprisoned villain wants revenge" being similar but you forget to mention there are three other dragons who may have different motivations, and that the covenants and flights have incredibly different dynamics and problems than the covenants. Razsageth also has the added motivation that she wants to free her family, which is not the same as the self-serving Jailer who wants ultimate control all to himself.

[owbu]

A stories bullet points isn't what makes it good or bad.
It's how well your characters are established in that framework, how well the setting fits into the broader narrative, the pacing and so on that make a story good.
Shadowlands failed on that part. Dragonflight might or might not.


But if you are just here to point out that warcraft relies on repeating tropes over and over again... Yeah. We know. It's most famous story is about a young powerful knight falling to darkness. And every two years, a new guy goes insane to destroy the world. Almost everything in wc is a tired trope.

[bullseyed]

Raszagath isn't a sibling of the Aspects, she's not even the same species of dragon as them anymore. Also, two stories sharing some themes and beats isn't a binary on/off switch in terms of quality - it's what you do with the story that determines its merits, not its component parts. Dragonflight and Shadowlands share some basic themes and details of the setting, whether or not the former ends up in the same general boat as the latter will depend on the telling.

lol she call Alex "sister" repeatedly. The "aspects" are mutated protodragons, high on titan magic. No different than the various elves getting high on different kinds of magic or orcs drinking demon blood.

The SL characters were all robots anyway, so they weren't "siblings" either.

- - - Updated - - -

Execution. We didn't know why the Jailer did what he did and we still don't really know.

Anyone who played SL and didn't skip the quests/cutscenes did.

[Koollan]

Anyone who played SL and didn't skip the quests/cutscenes did.

No.
It was deliberately left ambiguous that he was trying to 'protect' us from 'a threat'. No other hints, no other motives.

[PixelFox]

Yeah, OK, but... Dragons!

[Darththeo]

There are some pretty key differences in what is going on in one versus the other.

It is like saying why is Star Wars OT loved, but people make fun of Eragon, there the same story!

[Khaza-R]

Not really an apt comparison at all.

Raszageth likely isn't even main boss of this expansion. Let alone a character that supposedly had an overarching control over multiple pivotal points in WarCraft's history. People regard the Jailer's plot as bad because his importance in the story was inflated while his development as a character was severely limited and ultimately went no where other them him saying a bunch of vague nonsense before he died.

Additionally, sharing a trope doesn't make the stories comparable. Its means they have some similarities.

[Myradin]

In Shadowlands, the Jailer was locked up by his siblings when they refused the power of the First Ones. He escaped and vowed to make them all serve him in revenge. He promised to remake the world with his power. The 4 covenants came together to join as one power and defeat him, for Azeroth.

In Dragonflight, Razagath was locked up by her siblings when they refused the power of the Elements and went with Titan power. She escaped and vowed to make them all serve her in revenge. She promises to remake the world with her power. The 5 dragonflights are coming together to join as one power and defeat her, for Azeroth.

I'm pretty sure none of them involved 'refused the power of the first ones'.

The eternals were also trying to save the multiverse, not just 'for azeroth'.

Why is one story "bad" and the other story "good"?

The cliff notes version of a story tells little. Most stories are generally similar, its how you tell it that matters.

[chiddie]

No.
It was deliberately left ambiguous that he was trying to 'protect' us from 'a threat'. No other hints, no other motives.

We will probably never know before the next 20 years, but I still think that SL story was initially shaped around the Primus being the real mastermind, and it was then changed to a more simple form for whatever reason.

[Athorha]

Talking about the afterlife in a game catering to pre k religious zealots is a huge no no.

Hinting towards the higher power actually being hidden within an internal draconian essence is a massive plus for the downtrodden of the human race.

[Sableye]

kind of but not really, other than the jailer and the primalists being sealed evil in a can, there's a whole pantheon of these primal protodrakes to counter the aspects

[Unholyvamp]

Why is one story "bad" and the other story "good"?

Don't know what to tell you man. I liked SL's story.
Let em haters be haters

[Gurahk]

Shadowlands touched on a bunch of crap that shouldn't have been touched. The afterlives should've been avoided, and the Shadowlands should've been WoW's version of limbo instead of heaven.

[bullseyed]

No.
It was deliberately left ambiguous that he was trying to 'protect' us from 'a threat'. No other hints, no other motives.

That was added at the end. The entire expansion was very consistent with the "I found these runes of the First Ones and wanted to learn about them, but you locked me up for seeking knowledge, I will have my revenge!"

- - - Updated - - -

Not really an apt comparison at all.

Raszageth likely isn't even main boss of this expansion. Let alone a character that supposedly had an overarching control over multiple pivotal points in WarCraft's history. People regard the Jailer's plot as bad because his importance in the story was inflated while his development as a character was severely limited and ultimately went no where other them him saying a bunch of vague nonsense before he died.

Additionally, sharing a trope doesn't make the stories comparable. Its means they have some similarities.

Yeah, obviously Raszageth isn't. There are 3 more elements of similar proto-dragons locked up. Each will 1vs1 one of the Aspects. The 5th aspect will be Norzdomu, who will 1vs1 himself as Murzond, who was secretly pulling the strings the whole time.

[Aucald]

lol she call Alex "sister" repeatedly. The "aspects" are mutated protodragons, high on titan magic. No different than the various elves getting high on different kinds of magic or orcs drinking demon blood.

The SL characters were all robots anyway, so they weren't "siblings" either.

What she refers to Alexstrasza as is immaterial - likely more a reflection of her considering herself the equal of the Aspects as opposed to any familial connection. Even among the Aspects, only Alexstrasza and Ysera are actually sisters, whereas Malygos, Neltharion, and Nozdormu were friends but not family members.

The Eternal Ones at least share an origin in terms of their fabrication as a pantheon from the beginning, so their familial connection isn't a genetic one and is more a sense of shared and interconnected purpose.

[bullseyed]

I'm pretty sure none of them involved 'refused the power of the first ones'.

Zovaal said "look, these sigils the first ones gave us are actual magic, we should see what the magic does! They're breadcrumbs left for us to follow!" and the Primus attacked him for suggesting it and jailed him for eternity.

And then the Primus has us use the power of the sigils to follow Zovaal, doing the very thing he unprovokedly attacked Zovaal for suggesting. (And the fact that he even knew this was possible proves he was already doing the thing he assaulted Zovaal for suggesting, otherwise he wouldn't know how).

The eternals were also trying to save the multiverse, not just 'for azeroth'.

Azeroth is the center of the multiverse. The power at the center of the fractals. The 7th school of magic.

- - - Updated - - -

We will probably never know before the next 20 years, but I still think that SL story was initially shaped around the Primus being the real mastermind, and it was then changed to a more simple form for whatever reason.

The Primus was the actual bad guy of the story we got still, but I agree he was intended to be the also obvious bad guy instead of the hidden one.

- - - Updated - - -

What she refers to Alexstrasza as is immaterial.

The lore doesn't matter, your fanfic is totes better.

The Eternal Ones at least share an origin in terms of their fabrication as a pantheon from the beginning, so their familial connection isn't a genetic one and is more a sense of shared and interconnected purpose.

Life on Azeroth is artificial. The protodragons and dragons all share a single common ancestor, who was also fabricated.

[Yooginava182]

And Razagath is already a better villain than the Jailer was.

[Unlimited Power]

Most stories follow the same structure. If you oversimplify things enough, every story is the same.

I could argue DF is just a repeat of Cataclysm by your logic, as it also features 4 siblings teaming up to stop the 5th that has gone rogue.