SPOILERS Aethas STILL trying to get in Jaina's good graces.

[Mehrunes]

I'm not so sure, I think they've just put in a narrative hold until it would be relevant again. They split because Jaina had a trauma character arc to go through, not because they didn't care for one another.

I see it as a bit of a Hallmark trope in itself.

The now-deleted tweet from Afrasiabi said something about Jaina having to focus on herself and Before the Storm showed a flashback of her going away from Dalaran to find herself. So yeah, that would be accurate and since her arc in BfA was pretty much about that, it should already be done with by now.

She told them to get out, let those who wanted to leave leave, then attempted to imprison those that refused. The only dead Blood Elves were the ones that attacked the cops arresting them. You can't have a jailbreak if everyone's a corpse.

She didn't let anyone leave. She ordered the Silver Covenant to deal with their Dragonhawks specifically to prevent anyone from leaving. The same Silver Covenant that then massacred people left and right. And they also aren't cops. They are nothing more than Vereesa's own private militia with no official standing within the structures of Dalaran. And she explicitly avoided proper Kirin Tor resources to perform the Purge.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I had written up a longer post my phone decided to eat so here are the spark notes

And you start right off the bat with a petulant straw-man. It was not based on "Calia being omniscient",

there’s no strawmen, a single Undead comes to her and she has no idea what’s going on only seeing couple others going with him, you upgrade that to she’s knows every one is defecting making her omniscient. You even once said the light was beaming her info directly so she could know.

Finally, no matter how many times you want to cherry-pick this out while then portraying yourself as the messenger of things "explicitly supported by Blizzard", Sylvanas gave two reasons rather than just stopping the spread of hope and the second one was, lo and behold, the fact that she had no way of knowing whether the Forsaken returning (only after shit hit the fan) were doing so out of loyalty or out of fear. And the fact she says it in the same paragraph and you still expect people not to notice your cherry-picking says a lot about how your claims of basing your arguments only on what's "explicitly supported" by what you're quoting are worth less than used diapers.

anduin sees the forsaken returning before the bat riders are released there is no “only returns after shit hit the fan” that’s an excuse sylvanas made up and then you distorted further.

Nice of you to add new arguments to what you were saying before before you haven't mentioned him charging the dais before, but even that is a miss, because if you managed to to pay attention to the fight, Lei Shen repeatedly uses up the dais during the fight and not only does he have to recharge it before each use, but unlike the pylons in the corners, the effects happening due to him channeling the dais stop the moment he stops.

So, like I said, you don't have anything other than the item description saying that some power was channeled into it - which most certainly not the source of Lei Shen's power like Jaina thought (because that ended in Wrathion) - and where there is no indication as to what kind (let alone what amount) of power it is other than the completely nondescript word "terrible". If you think that this justifies Jaina's increase in power to what she became in BfA, which was the context of that discussion, you do you, but that's not really a solid argument by any means.

the quest shows you drain the left over power Jiana says she feels the power, the meta text says there is new power in the staff. While it might not be Lei shen’s power there is power no matter how much you want to deny the lore.

That's mighty weird, because a quick search for you mentioning anything about cease fires (and to get ahead here, I searched for both "ceasefire" and "cease fire") to me shows the first result is from 2019. And would you look at that, it's in reply to me talking about how the factions were already in, wait for it, open conflict. So yes, I'm going to "pretend" that reality is indeed reality, as alien that notion may be to you.

and here is a post from 2018 of your saying the alliance started the war.

No it’s not a reply to me no it doesn’t say cease fire, Mmoc search function sucks and we both know you flip flopped on who started it and it being a war/conflict.

You're not going to keep twisting the term "genocide" even when directly disproved by the goddamn organization that codified the crime in international law? That's something, I guess.

yes yes your a genocide denier not interested.

Except your "fix" was a dead link. Which, while arguably constituting progress over your previous post in that thread (and also serving as yet another example of how you have no clue as to what you're even posting), didn't provide any further "proof" towards your point. Not that there was anything to your point of negating the page 103 of Chronicle that explained how the outlook of people of Suramar changed later on to precisely what I said (it's almost as if I based it off of the source or something) other than you continuing to ignore it while making a limp-wristed remark on how you're totally not ignoring that page's content, despite you repeatedly trying to argue against what it said.

page 103 where it directly says there views began to change as the war dragged on.


And page 104 where it says they left the other elfs hanging which was your other contention.

As to the links being dead I’m not gonna find the thread to check them but I always get them from the site and they always work for me, I have no way of knowing if they break on your end or not but that doesn’t really matter as you know the page in question and should be able to see it’s continuation on 104 to check for your self.

Given how I haven't ignored a single word of the post I was replying to there, please do continue showing the world how the Venn diagram of your understanding of words like "prove" or "support" and their actual meanings are circles in two separate universes. And one probably isn't even a circle and just some squiggly line.

yes yes more projection, tell us more how Jiana’s staff got no power and how your not ignoring any thing.

:rolleyes

as I said I might be mimicking you on that one, never said I was perfect but atleast I’ll do it with a bit more style and not inject the hostile arrogance you inject into every post even when your blatantly wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

No real need to set up a shark pool in the Dalaran sewers, it was already established the deeper waters in the sewers contained sharks (and a variety of other dubious/dangerous things). As for conflicting elements between the two scenarios, the only answer there is really to synthesize the perspectives into a narrative whole where both versions of events occur, barring any specific developer statement clarifying a specific result such as with the Warfront scenarios in BfA. For the conflicting events in the sewer, the synthesis version of the outcome would seem to imply that the Alliance PC journeys to the sewer *after* Rommath has already put an end to the worst excesses of the Silver Covenant forces there - meaning the Alliance PC isn't privy to what had been happening earlier. This is based on the rough quest order, where the Horde version of "It Starts in the Sewers" precedes the Alliance version of "Sewer Cleaning," where Sunreaver holdouts in the sewers are taken out.

While the shark's were there it seems rather odd to set up a whole dunk pool to feed people to on such short notice, there's also some questionable things when how each faction gets to Dalaran with the horde flying there and the alliance taking portals which would reasonable put the horde PC hours if not days behind the alliance one atleast.

If we had a chronicles entry it could be that only the alliance PC takes part and the horde is just Rommath meaning and we see on the horde side might be non cannon just like a few raids they highlight in chronicles.

[Mehrunes]

I had written up a longer post my phone decided to eat so here are the spark notes there’s no strawmen, a single Undead comes to her and she has no idea what’s going on only seeing couple others going with him, you upgrade that to she’s knows every one is defecting making her omniscient. You even once said the light was beaming her info directly so she could know.

Or, as has already been pointed out to you, Calia has eyes and she saw what was going on. She even refered to her (apparently mystical) ability of sight, because she directed Elsie's attention to what was going on and asked her to see for herself how everyone else was already defecting. But hey, apparently characters seeing what's going on around them is omniscience. Whatever works for your Bizarro world not to collapse on itself, I guess.

anduin sees the forsaken returning before the bat riders are released there is no “only returns after shit hit the fan” that’s an excuse sylvanas made up and then you distorted further.

Your accusations of me "distorting" anything "further" ring rather hollow when you opened this paragraph with a falsehood. Anduin only said that the retreat was dangerous because that's what his magical bones told him, after hearing the horn. There's no mention of any specific Forsaken that he actually saw retreating and he could have just as well meant the situation in general. Especially since according the the agreed upon rules a signal from one side marked the retreat for both parties and he could have been talking about Alliance's retreat altogether.

Meanwhile as to what Sylvanas said, here's the full quote:

“They were,” she agreed. “But how much of that was fear? How tempted were they until that point?” She shook her head. “No, Nathanos. I cannot take the risk. The only Desolate Council members I trust are the ones who returned to me early on, broken and bitter. Truly Desolate. All the others…I cannot allow that sentiment, that hope, to grow. It is an infection ready to spread. I have to cut it out.”

Wow, would you look at that, it's precisely like I said and she gave Nathanos two reasons, with the first being that she couldn't know whether they were returning out of fear or not. Damn, it's almost as if I was reading the book and, unlike you, had the skill to actually repeat what the source is saying without twisting it into oblivion and then pretending the source somehow still "explicitly supports" the twisted take.

Case in point, you now trying to handwave away the first argument she said to Nathanos as an excuse. And before you bring up the new book since I don't recall whether it addressed this specific tangent, given how it did not exist at the time, it in no ways vindicates your argument from before it was released.

the quest shows you drain the left over power Jiana says she feels the power, the meta text says there is new power in the staff. While it might not be Lei shen’s power there is power no matter how much you want to deny the lore.

And, like I told the other poster that interjected in the meantime, given how the context of that discussion was Jaina's power up in BfA (with the usual "she has Lei Shen's power!!1!" argument popping up, which is what I was arguing against before you decided to add your three cents), if this super amazeballs "terrifying power" was the answer, why did it only materialize 3 expansions later and not in Jaina destroying the walls of Orgrimmar at SoO with a magical ship she raised from the bottom of the sea? It was much closer to Orgrimmar than Undercity to boot.

and here is a post from 2018 of your saying the alliance started the war.

No it’s not a reply to me no it doesn’t say cease fire, Mmoc search function sucks and we both know you flip flopped on who started it and it being a war/conflict.

Or, to be more precise, here is a post of mine from the start of BfA, long before the lore from the end of BfA that pinned the official start of the war on the War of Thorns in order to whitewash the Alliance that was added. Which, despite Blizzard's shitty reasons, still made me adjust my argument to pointing out how there was ongoing conflict prior to that, happening in multiple areas and mentioned in multiple sources.

Because... that's how one should react to the addition of new lore. The fact that you think this constitutes some gotcha moment against me says volumes about your attitude towards canon. And don't blame MMO-C's search function because I found all the relevant posts you were talking about just fine, in mere seconds for all of them.

yes yes your a genocide denier not interested.

Denying your blatantly improper usage of language does not constitute denying the subject of your misuse of words. In the same vein as denying your twisting of lore does not constitute denial of the lore.

page 103 where it directly says there views began to change as the war dragged on.

Which, given how at no point ever have I ever said anything about them being avid Legion opponents from the get go proves nothing for the third time you're quoting this.

And page 104 where it says they left the other elfs hanging which was your other contention.

Except it wasn't my "contention" or anything else. My point that you objected to (with this very line of argumentation) was that they themselves were left hanging by everyone else other than Ashamane as a massive punitive Legion force was sent against their city for them sealing the other major portal (which, as per my second point that you also objected to, saved the world from being overrun). That they didn't want to join the larger resistance themselves continues to be à propos of nothing there.

As to the links being dead I’m not gonna find the thread to check them but I always get them from the site and they always work for me, I have no way of knowing if they break on your end or not but that doesn’t really matter as you know the page in question and should be able to see it’s continuation on 104 to check for your self.

Am I supposed to read your mind in order to understand what you mean by "correct page" that you used to describe the link when the link is broken now? Because that's all that was to that paragraph there.

yes yes more projection, tell us more how Jiana’s staff got no power and how your not ignoring any thing.

Except the one ignoring anything is, once more, you. Because, once again, the context of that discussion was Jaina's increase in power that only materialized three expansions after your super duper staff. And you can harp on how that "terrible power" rivals Sargeras himself because you say so, but unless you can somehow explain this 3 in-lore years gap, you've got squat and that super duper staff does not work as the reason. And since there is no explanation for that, you've got squat and the super duper staff does not work as the reason. So add "projection" to the long, long list of words you can't stop misusing.

If you want an actual "tell us more" moment, look no further than when just one page ago you twisted Kosak's Reddit post about Jaina and Alliance player with no mention of the Silver Covenant to also apply to the Silver Covenant, because why the hell not. That I first learned about this post's existence from you only makes it better.

as I said I might be mimicking you on that one, never said I was perfect but atleast I’ll do it with a bit more style and not inject the hostile arrogance you inject into every post even when your blatantly wrong.

Since your arguments rely on you seeing things that aren't actually in the sources you think "explicitly support you" based on nothing more than wishful thinking and dreams, hell will freeze over before you'll ever manage to show me being wrong with anything resembling an actual argument. So I'm sorry to tell you, but your theory here does not live up to scrutiny. Kinda like your arguments about lore, so there's a pattern here.

Either way, I'm done. If you want to post some more sources that "explicitly support you" while saying the opposite of what you're saying, knock yourself out, but you'll be posting them into an unread void.

[Skytotem]

The problem isn't whether Aethas should or not, the problem is that's ALL HE DOES over the past few expansions, he exists to remind the horde we should feel bad about atrocities they wrote into the faction amidst vocal outcry

[baskev]

I am upset by a series of actions since Wotlk that have sent Aethas character reduced to begging for the alliance and kirin tor to let the sunreavers stay in dalaran and that's a bad arc and not an endearing character trait

yup, but not everyone is a hero, cool grey fox like saurfang. Some are weak sauce people. Look at the alliance:
- tyrande = always mad, nevers is positive or things good things.
- anduin always makes the bad situation because of faith, or thinking.

etc

but now i get you, you like the old him. Not the weak sauce one he has become. I can relate to that . Still think you are missing the point that story wise it makes sense. His people betrayed the kirin tors trust, then help sylvannas with sacking the night elf kingdoms, and by helping them with the bell, causing a piece of a old god to get free. kinda a big , please i am sorry is needed. Also the rest of the stuff. So trying to get into the good graces of them makes sense.

[Skytotem]

but now i get you, you like the old him. Not the weak sauce one he has become. I can relate to that . Still think you are missing the point that story wise it makes sense. His people betrayed the kirin tors trust, then help sylvannas with sacking the night elf kingdoms, and by helping them with the bell, causing a piece of a old god to get free. kinda a big , please i am sorry is needed. Also the rest of the stuff. So trying to get into the good graces of them makes sense.

We've Done that plot though, he gave the kirin tor felomelorn for crying out loud, a lot of horde fans are TIRED of guilt and sadness, why the hell did they need to slap his weak ass at the trading post?

[qwerty123456]

She didn't let anyone leave. She ordered the Silver Covenant to deal with their Dragonhawks specifically to prevent anyone from leaving. The same Silver Covenant that then massacred people left and right. And they also aren't cops. They are nothing more than Vereesa's own private militia with no official standing within the structures of Dalaran. And she explicitly avoided proper Kirin Tor resources to perform the Purge.

Not sure where your getting that from. She specifically ordered them to leave, people refused and were arrested and detained. Those that refused both offers and attacked were killed.

They massacred people left and right and yet they were also imprisoned? Vereesa does order the dragonhawks dealt with to prevent the traitors from leaving and yet they still arrest the people who don't straight up try to murder anyone trying to send them to prison. Jainia orders the silver covenant to detain people that gives them official standing.

[Rozz]

The now-deleted tweet from Afrasiabi said something about Jaina having to focus on herself and Before the Storm showed a flashback of her going away from Dalaran to find herself. So yeah, that would be accurate and since her arc in BfA was pretty much about that, it should already be done with by now.

That's actually why I suspect what I do. The find yourself trope before she gets a new love interest AND becoming accomplished before she goes back to an old flame are things she's done before.

I'm just squinting my eyes at this the same way I did at Baine/Mayla and Theron/Thal. They're starting something and with Jaina it's usually tragic romance when it comes to some sad pretty boy.

I'm doubting this will blow up in his face in any major way. The recent focus on character relationships, longing, heirs, etc. I'm expecting shenanigans

[Aucald]

While the shark's were there it seems rather odd to set up a whole dunk pool to feed people to on such short notice, there's also some questionable things when how each faction gets to Dalaran with the horde flying there and the alliance taking portals which would reasonable put the horde PC hours if not days behind the alliance one at least.

Travel is always pretty much a handwave when it comes to WoW, even canon lore doesn't factor in real-time distance or logistical trains. It's also worth noting that the Alliance version of events starts with Jaina's investigation of the heist, which gives the Horde PC and Magister forces more than enough of a window of time to arrive and set up basic concurrency, with the Horde starting with the sweep of the sewers in sync with Jaina issuing martial law and putting Vereesa and her Silver Covenant forces on the prowl for Sunreaver dissidents.

If we had a chronicles entry it could be that only the alliance PC takes part and the horde is just Rommath meaning and we see on the horde side might be non cannon just like a few raids they highlight in chronicles.

Could be, but as it stands now, both sides of the scenario need due consideration as concerns essential canonicity.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Or, as has already been pointed out to you, Calia has eyes and she saw what was going on. She even refered to her (apparently mystical) ability of sight, because she directed Elsie's attention to what was going on and asked her to see for herself how everyone else was already defecting. But hey, apparently characters seeing what's going on around them is omniscience. Whatever works for your Bizarro world not to collapse on itself, I guess.

here is the full context of what Calia saw/knew,

Calia continued to keep her eyes on the field as she spoke with Elsie. It
looked as though all those who remained were having positive
conversations with their loved ones. She heard laughter and saw
smiles. This is how it should be. The people of Lordaeron haven’t been
free to be who or what they wish to be. For this moment, they are.
There was Osric, talking to his friend Tomas. Over there, two sisters
were reunited. There was Ol’ Emma, whom Calia had healed, looking
ten years younger as she smiled at her children. And Parqual and
Philia were coming to join them. They spoke for a few moments; Calia
was too far away to hear what they said.
Parqual said something to his daughter, then headed alone toward
Calia. She felt a flicker of concern; he shouldn’t be approaching her
like this. No one was supposed to know that she and Parqual knew
each other. Loudly, he said, “Priestess…may this Forsaken have your
blessing?”
“Of course,” she replied.
He bent his head, whispering to her, “We need you now. It’s time.”
“Wh-what?”
“You’ll see. Be ready.”
Calia steadied herself and called for the Light’s blessing. It came,
bathing him in its warm, gold-white glow. Parqual grimaced; the Holy
Light healed Forsaken, but it was not pleasant for them. With a nod of
appreciation, he turned and rejoined the group. She watched them,
alert now. For a while, they simply chatted. And then, too casually,
Philia and Parqual walked away from the Felstones. After a moment,
the Felstone family, too, began to walk. Slowly and indirectly, so as not
to attract too much attention, they were moving from the center of the
field toward Stromgarde Keep.
Saa’ra’s words rushed back to Calia so swiftly that she staggered.
There are things you must do before that peace will be granted to
you. Things that you must understand, that you must integrate into
yourself. People who need your help. What one needs in order to heal
will always come one’s way, but sometimes it is hard to recognize it.
Sometimes, the most beautiful and important gifts come wrapped in
pain and blood.
Was this the moment she had been thinking of ever since she had
found her way to the Netherlight Temple and Archbishop Faol? So
much had fallen into place so perfectly: the Desolate Council, Anduin’s
noble call for this gathering. And now, spontaneously, human and
Forsaken had taken a step so courageous that Calia felt both inspired
and ashamed.
Yes. Parqual was right.
It was time.
She whirled toward Elsie, her hood falling off with her movement.
“Elsie, there’s something you must know. And I pray to the Light that
has sent me here this day that you will understand—and support it.”
She swallowed hard. “Support…me.”

and before you say there's a prospective shift so she could have gotten looked around futher, here's the direct continuation of her hood falling down when turning to Elsie.

In the center of the field, Elsie stared at the queen of Lordaeron. “It’s
not possible,” she said. But she knew it was true. Calia had taken care
to keep her face hidden in the shadow of her hood. But now the hood
was gone and she had turned to look directly at Elsie, and Elsie could
not look away.
“You are my people, and I want to help you,” Calia pleaded. “I only
came to observe, to begin to get to know the Forsaken of Lordaeron.”
“Undercity,” Elsie said. “We live in the Undercity.”
“You didn’t once. You won’t have to live in the shadows anymore.
Just—please. Come walk with me. Parqual, the Felstones, all the
others—see them? They’re defecting. Anduin will shelter and protect
you all; I know he will!”
“But—the Dark Lady—”
As if in response, the horn sounded three sharp blasts. Elsie turned
her gray-green face back toward the wall and the Forsaken banner that
had been unfurled.
“I’m sorry, Your Majesty,” Elsie said. “I can’t betray my queen. Not
even for you.” She turned and shouted, “Retreat! Retreat!”

who she saw was Osric, Tomas, two sisters, Ol’ Emma, Parqual and Philia, This was not every one on the field She did not know what any one else on the field was doing and we know that not every one was with there group heading towards the alliance keep.

Your accusations of me "distorting" anything "further" ring rather hollow when you opened this paragraph with a falsehood. Anduin only said that the retreat was dangerous because that's what his magical bones told him, after hearing the horn. There's no mention of any specific Forsaken that he actually saw retreating and he could have just as well meant the situation in general. Especially since according the the agreed upon rules a signal from one side marked the retreat for both parties and he could have been talking about Alliance's retreat altogether.

and here is anduin's view of the event and how some of the forsaken were already heading back before any shit hit any fans/arrows started flying.

“The retreat,” Anduin managed, grimacing as the pain increased.
“It’s dangerous.” A second pain struck Anduin, different but even more
devastating to him. For this was not the bone-hurting ache of the
Divine Bell’s handiwork but the knife-sharp pain of a dream shattering
before his eyes. With a sick jolt, Anduin saw that the tiny figures who
had stood at attention on Thoradin’s Wall were now mounted on bats
and flying toward the field.
Dark rangers.
“It’s over,” he whispered, and leaned on the parapet. “Get them to
safety before it’s too late!”
On the field below, spread out like markers in the map room, were
other tiny figures. Some of them were heading back toward Thoradin’s
Wall. Some were returning to the keep.
And some still stood in the field as if paralyzed.
The pain wasn’t abating, and Anduin clenched his jaw against it as
he looked back at the wall. He forced his fisted hands to open and
lifted the spyglass.
His mind saw things with a strange, swift clarity, and he
immediately picked out Archbishop Faol and Calia. The former was
close to the wall, urging his charges to rush through the gates to safety.
But Calia stayed in the field, arguing with Elsie Benton. The priestess’s
hood was down.
Calia…what are you doing?
Calia turned away from the Prime Governor, ran forward a few
paces, cupped her hands around her mouth, and shouted, “Forsaken! I
am Calia Menethil! Head for the keep!”
“What is that girl doing?” shouted Genn.
But Anduin was not listening. His gaze was riveted on the pair of
women in the field, one human, one Forsaken, and at that moment
Elsie Benton dropped like a stone with a black-fletched arrow
protruding from her chest.

Wow, would you look at that, it's precisely like I said and she gave Nathanos two reasons, with the first being that she couldn't know whether they were returning out of fear or not. Damn, it's almost as if I was reading the book and, unlike you, had the skill to actually repeat what the source is saying without twisting it into oblivion and then pretending the source somehow still "explicitly supports" the twisted take.

Case in point, you now trying to handwave away the first argument she said to Nathanos as an excuse. And before you bring up the new book since I don't recall whether it addressed this specific tangent, given how it did not exist at the time, it in no ways vindicates your argument from before it was released.

We know it's an excuse because as we see from anduin's view before some were already heading back and had no reason to do any thing out of fear before arrows started to fly.

And, like I told the other poster that interjected in the meantime, given how the context of that discussion was Jaina's power up in BfA (with the usual "she has Lei Shen's power!!1!" argument popping up, which is what I was arguing against before you decided to add your three cents), if this super amazeballs "terrifying power" was the answer, why did it only materialize 3 expansions later and not in Jaina destroying the walls of Orgrimmar at SoO with a magical ship she raised from the bottom of the sea? It was much closer to Orgrimmar than Undercity to boot.

The same reason Wrathion didn't do any thing with it he power from the heart, the writer didn't want her to or a bit more accurately cut Dal shooting down on SoO.

other then that though its an irrelevant point her staff got power from TOT no matter how much you want to deny it.

Which, given how at no point ever have I ever said anything about them being avid Legion opponents from the get go proves nothing for the third time you're quoting this.



Except it wasn't my "contention" or anything else. My point that you objected to was that they themselves were left hanging by everyone else other than Ashamane as a massive punitive Legion force was sent against their city for them sealing the other major portal (which, as per my second point that you also objected to, saved the world from being overrun). That they didn't join the larger resistance themselves is à propos of nothing there.

You replied to me and tried to contest them teaming up with the legion and leaving the rest of the elf's to die by saying they saved the world and Tyranda didn't lift a finger to help them.

I pointed out that they did save the world but only out of self interest when they feared there city would be destroyed and didn't even try to join up with the other elf's before sealing them self's up leaving all the other ones to die making your framing that the "high and mighty" tyranda did nothing for them Ludicrous as they were her enemy and never her ally.

You then started wingding about how I put the wrong link ignoring the actual point of the back and forth.

Am I supposed to read your mind in order to understand what you mean by "correct page" that you used to describe the link when the link is broken now? Because that's all that was to that paragraph there.

Are we pretending that chronicles has abunch of other pages about Suramar? I mean you were able to name the page either through memory or checking it why pretend like I could be talking about any other page but 103 and the small continuation on 104.

Except the one ignoring anything is, once more, you. Because, once again, the context of that discussion was Jaina's increase in power that only materialized three expansions after your super duper staff. And you can harp on how that "terrible power" rivals Sargeras himself because you say so, but unless you can somehow explain this 3 in-lore years gap, you've got squat and that super duper staff does not work as the reason. And since there is no explanation for that, you've got squat and the super duper staff does not work as the reason. So add "projection" to the long, long list of words you can't stop misusing.

as above your point is irrelevant point her staff got power from TOT no matter how much you want to deny it.

Your just wrong.

If you want an actual "tell us more" moment, look no further than when just one page ago you twisted Kosak's Reddit post about Jaina and Alliance player with no mention of the Silver Covenant to also apply to the Silver Covenant, because why the hell not. That I first learned about this post's existence from you only makes it funnier.

Again your projecting really hard. I will fully admit I misremembered the exact wording of the reddit post and extend it further then what was actually said

just because you might twist things in such a way doesn't mean every one else does.

Since your arguments rely on you seeing things that aren't actually in the sources

again, mimicking you as that's all you do as my quotes form the meeting show.

well that and ignoring the lore flat out as the post about Jiana's staff show.

- - - Updated - - -

Travel is always pretty much a handwave when it comes to WoW, even canon lore doesn't factor in real-time distance or logistical trains. It's also worth noting that the Alliance version of events starts with Jaina's investigation of the heist, which gives the Horde PC and Magister forces more than enough of a window of time to arrive and set up basic concurrency, with the Horde starting with the sweep of the sewers in sync with Jaina issuing martial law and putting Vereesa and her Silver Covenant forces on the prowl for Sunreaver dissidents.



Could be, but as it stands now, both sides of the scenario need due consideration as concerns essential canonicity.

Sources out side of the game proper put quite a bit of stock on travel time's off the top of my head tides of war, shadows rising, the war of thorns, and the wow comic all have elements based on how large azeroth is and how long it takes to get from A to B.

In game wise this obviously isn't a thing but lore wise it should come into play and while Jaina's investigation's could cover that if she was actually at it for that long then her knowing squat when the PC gets there wouldn't make any sense.

[Darth-Piekus]

Snip

You are trying to debate with a guy that trully believed that Garrosh could feel no pain from punches because Orcs have thick skin as a Rhino and kept ignoring the fact that Gallywix dropped Garrosh to one knee with a Knee to the face during the Blank Scroll skirmitch which showed clearly that he could feel a lot of pain as any other race.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You are trying to debate with a guy that trully believed that Garrosh could feel no pain from punches because Orcs have thick skin as a Rhino and kept ignoring the fact that Gallywix dropped Garrosh to one knee with a Knee to the face during the Blank Scroll skirmitch which showed clearly that he could feel a lot of pain as any other race.

Please tell me your making this up, Like I know it's a lost cause but Jesus really?

[Mehrunes]

Not sure where your getting that from. She specifically ordered them to leave, people refused and were arrested and detained. Those that refused both offers and attacked were killed.

They massacred people left and right and yet they were also imprisoned? Vereesa does order the dragonhawks dealt with to prevent the traitors from leaving and yet they still arrest the people who don't straight up try to murder anyone trying to send them to prison. Jainia orders the silver covenant to detain people that gives them official standing.

She ordered them to leave and Aethas refused, after which she started imprisoning them, yes. And I'm not sure where you saw anything mutually exclusive between the Silver Covenant killing the Dragonhawks and the Sunreavers that were prevented from leaving because of it being sent to prison, but there isn't any. Also, Dalaran isn't a dictatorship and instead it's ruled by Council of Six as a whole. The head of the Council is only its representative to other nations and when it comes to ruling Dalaran they don't have as much as a tie-breaker vote. So Jaina didn't give the Silver Covenant anything. If she did, there'd still be actual Kirin Tor helping out. But she quite obviously went around the Kirin Tor to perform the Purge.

That's actually why I suspect what I do. The find yourself trope before she gets a new love interest AND becoming accomplished before she goes back to an old flame are things she's done before.

I'm just squinting my eyes at this the same way I did at Baine/Mayla and Theron/Thal. They're starting something and with Jaina it's usually tragic romance when it comes to some sad pretty boy.

I'm doubting this will blow up in his face in any major way. The recent focus on character relationships, longing, heirs, etc. I'm expecting shenanigans

While what you're saying sounds like something Blizzard would do at this point, "tragic" would be an apt description of this particular pairing. Or insulting, more like it. For both Jaina (even with her "finding herself" arc in mind, there's a difference between a character healing from her traumatic experience and her then getting together with someone that did play some role in said trauma) and to non-Aethas Sunreavers (because Aethas being Aethas I'm sure he'd personally be game for that).

Travel is always pretty much a handwave when it comes to WoW, even canon lore doesn't factor in real-time distance or logistical trains.

Or stay consistent on that topic, for that matter.

You are trying to debate with a guy that trully believed that Garrosh could feel no pain from punches because Orcs have thick skin as a Rhino and kept ignoring the fact that Gallywix dropped Garrosh to one knee with a Knee to the face during the Blank Scroll skirmitch which showed clearly that he could feel a lot of pain as any other race.

Try to actually get your posters right before you decide to fling shit because actually addressing an argument being made in the thread is beyond your argumentative capabilities, because I've never discussed the Blank Scroll's events as I still haven't bothered to even read it.

Please tell me your making this up, Like I know it's a lost cause but Jesus really?

Sorry to burst your guys' meta-level fanfiction, but @Darth-Piekus and making things up go hand-in-hand like peanut butter and jelly and he's talking about another poster.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sorry to burst your guys' meta-level fanfiction, but @Darth-Piekus and making things up go hand-in-hand like peanut butter and jelly and he's talking about another poster.

A bubble I'm happy to have popped.

[Mehrunes]

and here is anduin's view of the event and how some of the forsaken were already heading back before any shit hit any fans/arrows started flying.

“The retreat,” Anduin managed, grimacing as the pain increased.
“It’s dangerous.” A second pain struck Anduin, different but even more
devastating to him. For this was not the bone-hurting ache of the
Divine Bell’s handiwork but the knife-sharp pain of a dream shattering
before his eyes. With a sick jolt, Anduin saw that the tiny figures who
had stood at attention on Thoradin’s Wall were now mounted on bats
and flying toward the field.
Dark rangers.
“It’s over,” he whispered, and leaned on the parapet. “Get them to
safety before it’s too late!”
On the field below, spread out like markers in the map room, were
other tiny figures. Some of them were heading back toward Thoradin’s
Wall. Some were returning to the keep.

OK, I know I said I wouldn't reply to that, but I caught a glimpse when checking the post @Darth-Piekus was replying to. And, lo and behold, even that few seconds-long glimpse instantly resulted in me spotting you being full of it. Here's what you said before:

anduin sees the forsaken returning before the bat riders are released there is no “only returns after shit hit the fan” that’s an excuse sylvanas made up and then you distorted further.

In your new quote I left your highlight in bold where you marked the part that "explicitly supports you". About how Anduin saw Forsaken retreating BEFORE the Dark Rangers were deployed. That was your claim. Yet by some miraculous coincadonk your own goddamn quote shows the Dark Rangers being deployed (emphasis mine, in bigger font) BEFORE Anduin saw any Forsaken retreating, i.e. the complete goddamn opposite of your claim.

Thanks for once again proving what I said, i.e. how you don't understand an iota of what you're quoting and that your claims of how Blizzard's sources "explicitly support you" are some Bizarro world parody.

I also did spot at least two cases of you predictably continuing to harp on the staff while merrily continuing to ignore the context of that discussion and pretending it somehow vindicates you. One of them with some half-assed deflection of "they didn't explain it for Wrathion either so it something something argument".

Never mind that Wrathion's plan in MoP wasn't to get his own hands dirty so there was no reason for him to showcase his powers and then he disappeared from the story for years. Or the part where we didn't even see his power level prior to him eating the heart of Lei Shen to even make a proper comparison of how much and how quickly that made him improve. These are mere trifles that, while making the example completely worthless as a point of comparison, in your mind also "explicitly support you". Somehow.

[Aucald]

This thread needs to settle down. Let's drop the interpersonal and irrelevant drama as well as the low-key invective and discuss the topic civilly and constructively.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

OK, I know I said I wouldn't reply to that, but I caught a glimpse when checking the post @Darth-Piekus was replying to. And, lo and behold, even that few seconds-long glimpse instantly resulted in me spotting you being full of it. Here's what you said before:



In your new quote I left your highlight in bold where you marked the part that "explicitly supports you". About how Anduin saw Forsaken retreating BEFORE the Dark Rangers were deployed. That was your claim. Yet by some miraculous coincadonk your own goddamn quote shows the Dark Rangers being deployed (emphasis mine, in bigger font) BEFORE Anduin saw any Forsaken retreating, i.e. the complete goddamn opposite of your claim.

Thanks for once again proving what I said, i.e. how you don't understand an iota of what you're quoting and that your claims of how Blizzard's sources "explicitly support you" are some Bizarro world parody.

"shrug" as with the reddit I'm willing to admit I don't always remember the exact wording and can make mistakes.

The quote still explicitly supports me though even if the sequence is a bit off, There were still forsaken already on there way back and they had no reason to think the bat riders would shoot them or to fear them at all.

but nice try.

[plz delete account]

You don't blame the ammunition and weapon manufacturer when a murderer kills your parents. You blame the murderer.

Did... did you just equate nukes to bullets in a glock?

[Darth-Piekus]

A bubble I'm happy to have popped.

It was a post of some years back regarding Garrosh and Varian having Gladiatoral combat without weapons. Some source claimed that Orcs have thick skins like rhinos and the usual suspect claimed that he couldnt feel pain. Then the Blank Scroll came and Gallywix a small Goblin but former Street Fighter managed to topple that Rhino with a knee to the face.

The usual suspect of course keeps having that same uncivilized attitude with those who disagree.

[Le Conceptuel]

-snip-

Off-topic, but I kind of forgot how poorly-written WoW novels are.