Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[erifwodahs]

Great idea, now people will waste your time longer, because they instantly leave after 1s overtime.

This. if you have 10mins on the timer but you need 15 minutes at least to finish it - it will just waste 10minutes more unless it's "completion" key or I need some drops from dungeon, which is quite likely now, but later in the patch only upgrades will come from vault.

[Zardas]

It wouldn't though. A lot of tanks and healers would stop pugging. Just look at the solo shuffle wait time for DPS to get a hint of what happens when you make something not fun for healers.

I definitely wouldn't mind if healers and tanks leaving the key as soon as they see that it won't be timed stopped pugging. Again it would make wonders for the pug scene.

[Azharok]

You're arguing against something I'm not even proposing. I'm just pro penalty for leaving early, even if it's just by tracking that someone tends to leave keys early.

Leaving early, what defines leaving early ? Is the key still timeable ? Is everyone pulling their weight ? Is it an io upgrade for everyone if not timed ?

Could even be stuff like internet dying out, or having a IRL emergency. You think the really high io players stay past the 20s if it's not timed ? Unless they are pushing R1 keys, they just go next.

- - - Updated - - -

I definitely wouldn't mind if healers and tanks leaving the key as soon as they see that it won't be timed stopped pugging. Again it would make wonders for the pug scene.

The question is WHY isn't it going to be timed ? And everyone leaves, this isn't exclusive to tanks and healers.

[uncl55]

Unless you specifically said that you want the key run to completion, I am under no obligation to stay beyond what I am prepared to.

In bird culture this is considered a dick move.

[Azharok]

In bird culture this is considered a dick move.

Good thing I'm not a bird then. Look, I have no issue with doing a no-leaver weekly whateverkeylvl. But if there's nothing in the fine print... bets are off.

[erifwodahs]

Should just be if someone leaves within the first 10 minutes, they get the debuff. Most people would figure they've sunk 10 minutes in, might as well finish it, unless the group was doomed to fail in which case everyone else isn't losing anything by them leaving.

Prepare for ninja key inserts?
What if I insert my HoA instead of leaders HoA? I hold everyone hostage? 10 minutes in really doesn't mean that I am going to waste 20 minutes more just because I wasted those 10 - it's like saying that if you watched 20minutes of some horrible movie you might as well finish it. No - that would be dumb af. Basically a definition of sunk cost fallacy.

[Zardas]

The question is WHY isn't it going to be timed ?

Because people make mistakes and/or don't have enough gear to handle the challenge. Either way, is it really a good idea that some people can ruin their experience by just blaming them and leaving ? Do you think that's how they will improve ?

And everyone leaves, this isn't exclusive to tanks and healers.

Indeed, it's just that the dude I responded to specifically wrote about tanks and healers.

[lllll]

I definitely wouldn't mind if healers and tanks leaving the key as soon as they see that it won't be timed stopped pugging. Again it would make wonders for the pug scene.

It really wouldn't, you'd be right there with others whining that you can't get any groups once the tank and healer population dwindles even more for pugs.

[Azharok]

Because people make mistakes and/or don't have enough gear to handle the challenge.

Okay, and where would people improve do you think ? lower difficulties ? Dude's out here still dying to orbs on second boss in AV in 16s and up. You've had 15 other key levels to work out that the orbs hurt. Dying to Mari's beam or Dragon frontals in 16s and up... Not having enough gear is a BS excuse.

About half the DPS players I meet in keys don't interrupt spells, in 16s and up.

Where do people improve ? They don't, they get carried by gear/sets/the other people in the group, end up with a 17 SBG, get carried again and end up with a 19RLP and wonder why everyone leaves on first boss because he's dying to everything.

True story nearly 2chested AA16 with an arcane mage that did less damage than the tank. You think that dude can time a 17 if there's two people like him in the key ?

[Usernameforforums]

This makes it sound like you think no one ever leaves groups for the most stupidest of things.

Granted I've cut down on people who do that when I stop inviting people who are obviously far over the io score for that key and are just trying to fish for a trinket or something.

The opposite does happen of course, people join a key thinking it will be smooth and ends up obviously being a group out of their element, but both sides have to be acknowledged.

Ikr. I had one dude leave a 13 AV on the first boss. Trees get popped and the saps come out. We kill boss and saps simultaneously so there’s puddles on the ground. The fury warrior is standing in the sap puddles and instantly dies. First death, everything was fine up to that point. Dude leaves and doesn’t say a thing. My head-canon on it is the dude left out of embarrassment.

[Nite92]

Because you're screwing with someone else's key. Why are you forcing me to not finish my key by leaving, since I can't finish it when someone leaves. Also, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to leave, I just say that I want it to be tracked so that I know who I'm inviting into my groups.

Well, that's for the keyholder to sort out. But saying nothing, and then being surprised I was just there for the r.io is the keyholders own fault.

[Zardas]

It really wouldn't, you'd be right there with others whining that you can't get any groups once the tank and healer population dwindles even more for pugs.

I can guarantee you I wouldn't. Better wait ten more minutes to find a decent player, than one with the will of an oyster.

Okay, and where would people improve do you think ? lower difficulties ? Dude's out here still dying to orbs on second boss in AV in 16s and up. You've had 15 other key levels to work out that the orbs hurt. Dying to Mari's beam or Dragon frontals in 16s and up... Not having enough gear is a BS excuse.

About half the DPS players I meet in keys don't interrupt spells, in 16s and up.

Where do people improve ? They don't, they get carried by gear/sets/the other people in the group, end up with a 17 SBG, get carried again and end up with a 19RLP and wonder why everyone leaves on first boss because he's dying to everything.

True story nearly 2chested AA16 with an arcane mage that did less damage than the tank. You think that dude can time a 17 if there's two people like him in the key ?

Can you please point me towards where does OP specifically restricted his idea to 15 and higher keys ?

[Fangshi]

There is only one solution and that is don’t pug, it applies to all skill levels of the game, if you pug you are consenting to the vagaries of the system.

[lllll]

I can guarantee you I wouldn't. Better wait ten more minutes to find a decent player, than one with the will of an oyster.

Lmao, you actually think it's going to be 10 minutes more?

Look to solo shuffle. It's not going to be 10 minutes more. You'll sit there up towards an hour, maybe even more. They'll never implement penalties to leaving m+ because 1) You decide who you invite, it's not a matchmade experience. 2) It would pretty much kill the group finder in an instant when the tanks and healers start sticking to only premades.

[Zardas]

Lmao, you actually think it's going to be 10 minutes more?

Look to solo shuffle. It's not going to be 10 minutes more. You'll sit there up towards an hour, maybe even more. They'll never implement penalties to leaving m+ because 1) You decide who you invite, it's not a matchmade experience. 2) It would kill the group finder in an instant when the tanks and healers start sticking to only premades.

I can guarantee you I wouldn't. Better wait another hour to find a decent player, than one with the will of an oyster.

[lllll]

I can guarantee you I wouldn't. Better wait another hour to find a decent player, than one with the will of an oyster.

Yet others would to the point they would never even think to implement penalties for leaving a group that was manually created. You'd be very exceptional(in a bad way) if you think it's better for the game to practically die for the vast majority of people. Casual Joe isn't going to sit there to wait for a tank and healer for forever, he'll stop playing if he can't play.

[Azharok]

Can you please point me towards where does OP specifically restricted his idea to 15 and higher keys ?

You're right he didn't, but considering a couple of M0s and some crafted gear will land you at the low low bar of 375ilvl, you're inting or playing particularely poorly to manage to fail sub 10 keys.

One of my small key runs from my alt

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/s...burial-grounds

Guess who was last DPS in that run ?

[potis]

Another post, a repeat of the same thing.

"Someone left my group cause we sucked ass, i better make a post about it so the mmo-champion bubble boosts my ego!"

You know whats amazing? Stability, premade and group of familiars/friends/guildies!

Frankly, i will always be with the leavers, once every other moon i might pug a low key 5-10 on some alt at any time during the expansion, i obviously overgear it even for the alt, but i am bored and i just wanna pew pew on a spec i havent played in forever.

And its the worst experience ever every single time, we are simply playing different games with the difference in knowledge/skill/reflexes, you can tell from the first 2 pulls how the run is gonna go, i dont leave, but i sigh deeply and regret my life choices.

I know its not exactly their fault, and i know thats not what most people are experiencing, but i can assume they think around those lines also.

Also most of you make bad group choices.

I wanted to do a few more M+ for my vault, i had my +15 Nokhud, i simply wrote "weekly, timer irrelevant" despite we can do it anyway, thats not the issue but its not a priority and obviously 30 sign ups, mouse over most, highest some form of +12, +14, despite all of them having 1700-1900 score etc.

Invite one cause why not, higher ilvl has some raiding experience also so probably raiding trinkets, means not a complete pleb..5 seconds in questions about the timer, kick him, whisper him a "Sorry, but you are simply a risk if you ask that the first 5 seconds when it clearly states it" , his small rant about not leaving and not that type of human, it doesnt matter what he would say.

Change the description to "fuck your score, its just weekly for vault stacking, no score chasers".

I simply got others that had already completed a +15 NOK, cleaved it down easy mode, with like 7mins left, only missed +2 cause we fucked around a bit.

[Anzen]

Leavers are pretty common in lower-mid keys, especially toward the start of a dungeon. Tank unga bunga pulls? Leaver. Tank pulls too slowly? Leaver. Someone doing relatively low damage on the first couple of pulls? Leaver. Someone repeatedly stands in bad and dies? Leaver. Someone says something snarky? Leaver. There is a multitude of reasons why people leave. The biggest being? True pugs (5 total randos) have zero social obligation/burden, so leaving has zero consequence. I've left Algethar Academy multiple times after it was clear the tree boss wasn't going to happen. Why waste your time? I do about 400 runs a season. I'd say an easy 10-15% of those have leavers.

Firstly, I know you're not necessarily suggesting otherwise Femininity, but I wanted to add to your fantastic post that the reason leavers are common in lower-mid keys is because all the valid concerns you mention (over/under-pulling, low dps, getting hit by obvious mechanics, etc) predominantly happen there.

It becomes increasingly rare that DPS die to obvious ground effects, or no-one interrupts the 'massive AoE damage channeled spell' in higher keys.

Last season, as a healer I generally had a much easier time in a +20 than a +15, because people were avoiding virtually everything. I'd spend a lot of the run DPS'ing.

Whereas if I dipped my toes into anything less than a 15, it would be absolute hell on earth and I would spend the whole run panic healing and spamming DPS that were getting hit by anything and everything. I've played the game long enough to know you just stay silent about it and just get it over and done with as quick as possible. Not once in the history of the game has "demon hunter, please could you try avoid standing in the circles on the ground, they do lots of damage" led to the response "thanks, I hadn't realised. I'll pay more attention in future"... it virtually always leads into being insulted/ninja pulling/etc.

So if I join a run, and it's clear the run is going to be an absolute sideshow, I'll leave. Just because someone has OK gear and/or a reasonable IO score doesn't mean they will definitely be good.

In my experience, probably half of players that are ~2k IO still can not do the first boss of TotJS without being hit by the beam...

[Zardas]

You're right he didn't, but considering a couple of M0s and some crafted gear will land you at the low low bar of 375ilvl, you're inting or playing particularely poorly to manage to fail sub 10 keys.

Yes, some people do play pretty poorly, fail to avoid aoes, or don't soak, or whatever can fail timing a key, even a sub 10.
But again, is it really ok for people to ruin the experience of everyone else in the group just because they can't stand a player doing such mistake and failing the timing of a key ?