Alec Baldwin fires prop gun on movie set, killing cinematographer

[Edge-]

Because he is rich and a huge Democrat supporter. The northern half of the state is very blue and the southern more red than not. Also, NM has been pushing hard to get movie studios filming in the state. Sante Fe is the state capital and the prosecutor probably wants the AG's job so needs to look tough on high profile cases

So politics, economics, and personal ambition all collide in this mess. Whatever the outcome, it won't be worth the tax dollars spent on it.

lol there's always a fuckin reason

[Milchshake]

Baldwin should be locked-up because he's a mouthy Dem.
Mind as well lock the thread. There's nothing left to agrue.

Whereas the Kyle Rittenhouse thread gets locked in half the time.
Gais stop being mean to conservatives.
THIs dISCUSSION has SideTracKeD INTo gUN ContROl. LOcKing heRE.



/s

[s_bushido]

Because he is rich and a huge Democrat supporter.

And there it is. Of course, the fact that that's literally the only reason this incident was/is worthy any more consideration than a "huh, that's pretty tragic" and everyone not effected moving on with their day, has completely passed you by.

[cubby]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/us/sa...ged/index.html

Everything I read seems to say he is charged as an actor, so not sure where you’re getting it from.

It does vaguely talk about low safety standards but never draws a direct line to Baldwin as a producer.

This is what I was drawing on for it, but I'll be the first to admit, it isn't clear.
"Baldwin was also a producer for “Rust” and therefore had additional responsibilities, the district attorney said."
I could be wrong though - either way it's just ridiculous. The way it was handled, the conclusions the DA is using, the law they are ignoring. It's a shitshow.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This is what I was drawing on for it, but I'll be the first to admit, it isn't clear.
"Baldwin was also a producer for “Rust” and therefore had additional responsibilities, the district attorney said."
I could be wrong though - either way it's just ridiculous. The way it was handled, the conclusions the DA is using, the law they are ignoring. It's a shitshow.

He's being charged as both:

“As a producer, he also had a duty to make sure that the set was safe,” Carmack-Altwies said. “And then as an actor that day, he should have checked that gun, checked those projectiles.”

Nevermind that, according to set safety protocols, he's not supposed to have anything to do with checking the gun. He's not qualified to make any kind of assesssment as to it's safety...and him inspecting the gun personally compromises set safety standards.

As for the producer thing, yes...he is responsible for making sure that the set safety protocols are being followed...and it would certainly seem that he, and others, were negligent. Whether or not it rises to the level of criminal negligence...I can't speak to... but there does appear to have been negligence.

[Gabriel]

The district attorney for Santa Fe County, Mary Carmack-Altwies, said in an interview that Mr. Baldwin had a duty to ensure the gun and the ammunition were properly checked and that he should never have pointed it at anyone. “You should not point a gun at someone that you’re not willing to shoot,” she said. “That goes to basic safety standards.”

That DA is an honest to god idiot.

[Nastard]

The scene specifically calls for him to point the gun at the camera. A scene that is repeated dozens of times a year.

No, no, no. Can't you see how unacceptable it is? In a gunslinging movie all about people aiming guns at each other, no one should be pointing a firearm at anyone else. They should aim at least 45 degrees away and hope the audience doesn't notice. Also, instead of risking hearing damage from the sound of blanks, the actors should just say "BANG!" In fact, I'm going to petition to request that all guns in Hollywood are to be replaced by finger guns. Explosives are to be replaced by the 60's Batman "POW CRASH KABOOM!" visuals. All grenades in war movies are to be replaced by pineapples in case a live round somehow makes it onto set. If anything goes wrong and someone gets hurt anyway, we don't blame the person responsible for the mishap like the silly armorer, but on the person whose ideology we most disagree with.

[diller]

Because he is rich and a huge Democrat supporter. The northern half of the state is very blue and the southern more red than not. Also, NM has been pushing hard to get movie studios filming in the state. Sante Fe is the state capital and the prosecutor probably wants the AG's job so needs to look tough on high profile cases

Glad that I live in a country where police, prosecutor and so on aren't picked on political affiliation, only in America.

[Orange Joe]

You really think that a system where there is zero responsibility for the person holding a gun, as well as zero checks and balances, is a good one here? Lives are at stake. If you fire a gun you should check the chamber, period. Someone else's professional role does not and should not limit personal liability. Additionally, there should be at minimum two people making sure the gun is not loaded. Mistakes can always happen. As we saw here.

Honestly I think the track record speaks for itself. How many movies have guns in them vs how many have been injured or killed by guns.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Honestly I think the track record speaks for itself. How many movies have guns in them vs how many have been injured or killed by guns.

This is the thing. The set of safety protocols they have in place works very well...but, just like any other set of protocols, it only works when it is followed.

Clearly, something went wrong here... and there is a case to be made that Baldwin is somewhat responsible... but that responsibility lies with him as a producer not making sure that the protocols were being followed properly... not as the poor schmuck that was handed a live weapon that should have been cold.

[Gaidax]

While there should be trial, because that's the due process - he should also be acquitted unless some sort of actual proof of intent exists.

As I see it - it is just an accident and if that is indeed so, of course he should go.

[Rustedsaint]

Don’t see Alec doing any time for this, even if he wasn’t rich/connected he was informed the gun was safe to use by the David halls. The DA only doing this to attract attention from all the trump supporters who hated Alec’s attacks on trump.
Halls and the people actually involved in making sure the prop was safe should be charged thou.Personally I still want to know why was there an actual bullet in the gun, tried googling it but still no proper answer.

[Nymrohd]

While there should be trial, because that's the due process - he should also be acquitted unless some sort of actual proof of intent exists.

As I see it - it is just an accident and if that is indeed so, of course he should go.

I don't know. I think an argument about criminal negligence on his behalf as a producer can be made. Not saying the argument would win, but that's why courts are there.

[Forogil]

Also why do movie makers use real guns in the first place, that's idiotic.

My guess is that it's cheaper (based on the alleged quality of the gun they used it ought to have been really cheap), and makes the actors feel more powerful. And, of course, moviegoers might want it even if you cannot see the difference: same as "actors doing their own stunts".

The obvious choice would be blank firing replica guns: even if blanks can hurt, the risk of serious consequences is reduced a lot.

[Witchblade77]

Don’t see Alec doing any time for this, even if he wasn’t rich/connected he was informed the gun was safe to use by the David halls. The DA only doing this to attract attention from all the trump supporters who hated Alec’s attacks on trump.
Halls and the people actually involved in making sure the prop was safe should be charged thou.Personally I still want to know why was there an actual bullet in the gun, tried googling it but still no proper answer.

from what I was able to find from combination of old and newer articles, armorer's father was tangentially involved as far as training of the crew with actual ammo, at the range not on set (think Keanu Reeves and a whole slew of other actors training with live ammo at a designated range) due to negligence, those bullets got mixed up with the blanks. apparently boxed blanks rattle when shaken, live bullets do not? or something like that. there is also a possibility that the bullets have been reloaded (as in casings reused, recycled into live ammo again).

it seems like a goddamn mess of miscommunication, sloppiness and ignorance, willful or otherwise.

seriously when you goddamn crew walks off set due to safety concerns over weapon handling, after their complains have gone unaddressed? (a thing that actualy happened and we knew about it even in 2021). you do NOT keep shooting your movie until you address said concerns

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

from what I was able to find from combination of old and newer articles, armorer's father was tangentially involved as far as training of the crew with actual ammo, at the range not on set (think Keanu Reeves and a whole slew of other actors training with live ammo at a designated range) due to negligence, those bullets got mixed up with the blanks. apparently boxed blanks rattle when shaken, live bullets do not? or something like that. there is also a possibility that the bullets have been reloaded (as in casings reused, recycled into live ammo again).

Yeah a dummy round is a real bullet that's had the power and primer removed...so it's basically a hollow shell. They then put a tiny ball bearing into that round so that when you shake it...you can hear it *ting*. A live round is packed pretty solid...so nothing will move around inside when you shake it.

it seems like a goddamn mess of miscommunication, sloppiness and ignorance, willful or otherwise.

seriously when you goddamn crew walks off set due to safety concerns over weapon handling, after their complains have gone unaddressed? (a thing that actualy happened and we knew about it even in 2021). you do NOT keep shooting your movie until you address said concerns

Yeah, this is why I maintain that, while I do not believe Baldwin should be charged for firing the gun, he, and others, should definitely be held responsible for failing to maintain safe working conditions on the set. There's so many fingers pointing anywhere but at themelves it's hard to know exactly what happened...but the one thing that's clear is that safety standards were not maintained.

[Gabriel]

Yeah a dummy round is a real bullet that's had the power and primer removed...so it's basically a hollow shell. They then put a tiny ball bearing into that round so that when you shake it...you can hear it *ting*. A live round is packed pretty solid...so nothing will move around inside when you shake it.

Well technically all ammo boxes probably rattle when shaken, but individual live cartridges don't, like you said.

[Citizen T]

Looking tough only matters when it's a case you can win. And if being a wealthy democrat is giving Baldwin protection in a Blue area of the state...why would a politically ambitious prosecutor go out on a limb to go after him?



So, you admit it's all political and not worth spending tax dollars on...so why are you in favour of the prosecution?

About half and half of I believe he was negligent and that a normal citizen would have already been tried and convicted (and probably with a firearms enhancement making it a 5 year minimum sentence)

[beanman12345]

This is the thing. The set of safety protocols they have in place works very well...but, just like any other set of protocols, it only works when it is followed.

Clearly, something went wrong here... and there is a case to be made that Baldwin is somewhat responsible... but that responsibility lies with him as a producer not making sure that the protocols were being followed properly... not as the poor schmuck that was handed a live weapon that should have been cold.

I have to agree 100%. As a producer, I can see maybe a gross neglegance or something charge. But as an actor? The reason this is such an anomoly an anything similar having happened in decades is specifically because the actors don't go messing around with their guns, checking to see if their loaded or whatever, trained or not trained they leave it. It's really just amongst the stupidest thing to blame him as an actor but this country is pretty stupid. Like if he's actually found guilty, no actor will ever hold any firearm in any movie/tv show ever again, unless it's completely plastic toy gun that has no trigger and it's all done with CGI in post.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

About half and half of I believe he was negligent and that a normal citizen would have already been tried and convicted (and probably with a firearms enhancement making it a 5 year minimum sentence)

I don't know how many times I have to point out to you that the situation here is completely different than a "normal citizen". It's not that he thought the gun wasn't loaded. He was handed a gun that was supposed to be loaded with dummy rounds (which are virtually indistinguishable from live rounds) and told it was a "cold gun". He is not qualified to visually inspect the dummy rounds to distinguish them from live rounds. He's not allowed to unload the weapon to check it for himself. The whole reeason for there to be an armourer on set is to have someone responsible for all that. That's why this case is going to fall flat...not because Baldwin's rich...but because there is no actual legal basis to convict him.