No Dragonflight numbers from Blizzard means??

[Dystemper]

Thanks, didn't realize it was blocked

[BrokenRavens]

Thanks, didn't realize it was blocked

No worries. That whole situation is crazy.

Good find.

[Dystemper]

It's bonkers, and they expect to get or keep quality people there? Blizzard is not the prestige job it once was. Makes me think things thetevin Irvine ate pretty bad.

[MoanaLisa]

Some thoughts:

API Data: The data, such as it is (especially raid data), is factual but woefully incomplete for determining what's going on in the game at large. People ignore this all the time. They may be correct, they may not. Trends are not necessarily hard facts. One would have to look at all of it in detail and see just what people are doing in the game to really know for sure how the population spreads out over content. No one has that data except Blizzard. No one here, nor streamers either. It may even be that subscription numbers have drifted so far away from revenue reality that they don't actually matter any longer. In any case the only thing that does matter as a business case is Blizzard's internal forecasts and expectations since they will be an input to future game budgets. No one knows what those are either and API data is likely not a good indicator of much of anything.

Blizzard's Silence on Expansion Sales: To repeat, it's awesome how the same people can say that ABK controls all things Blizzard (sales information one would presume included) and simultaneously act as if Blizzard has agency in what they do or do not report about their sales. In fact in light of the pending sale to MSFT (new territory altogether), it's reasonable to wonder if ABK has essentially put a gag order on any corporate news that may have an effect on stock prices that doesn't come out of Santa Monica. That may or may not be true but is a perfectly reasonable position to take, especially given Blizzard's legal problems elsewhere. Kotick may have simply called Ybarra up and told him to shut it. Who can say? No one here for certain. There are a ton of legalities once this kind of deal is underway about what companies can or cannot say that may affect stock prices.

In short, everything anyone writes here (including this) lacks any authoritative or complete data to support it. Are raids out-of-date and not so much of a thing any longer? Could be. There's plenty of evidence that the several-hours-at-a-time playstyle of the past is fading in favor of shorter encounters that reward well. Blizzard still has a lot of faith that most of their content should be accessible during a lunch break (they've even said so recently). Self-appointed forum 'experts' should be taken with a grain of salt and the louder they bleat about the accuracy of their opinions, more salt needs to be added. Common sense about the realities of today with the sale as a paramount objective to get done are better guides than history I would think.

EDIT (one last one): Arguing about all of this is likely to be even more pointless if and when the MSFT sale is concluded. MSFT isn't likely to publish any data at all about WoW. Go look at their corporate reports and note how many line items are aggregates.

[Nyel]

Some thoughts:

API Data: The data, such as it is (especially raid data), is factual but woefully incomplete for determining what's going on in the game at large. People ignore this all the time. They may be correct, they may not. Trends are not necessarily hard facts. One would have to look at all of it in detail and see just what people are doing in the game to really know for sure how the population spreads out over content. No one has that data except Blizzard. No one here, nor streamers either. It may even be that subscription numbers have drifted so far away from revenue reality that they don't actually matter any longer. In any case the only thing that does matter as a business case is Blizzard's internal forecasts and expectations since they will be an input to future game budgets. No one knows what those are either and API data is likely not a good indicator of much of anything.

Blizzard's Silence on Expansion Sales: To repeat, it's awesome how the same people can say that ABK controls all things Blizzard (sales information one would presume included) and simultaneously act as if Blizzard has agency in what they do or do not report about their sales. In fact in light of the pending sale to MSFT (new territory altogether), it's reasonable to wonder if ABK has essentially put a gag order on any corporate news that may have an effect on stock prices that doesn't come out of Santa Monica. That may or may not be true but is a perfectly reasonable position to take, especially given Blizzard's legal problems elsewhere. Kotick may have simply called Ybarra up and told him to shut it. Who can say? No one here for certain. There are a ton of legalities once this kind of deal is underway about what companies can or cannot say that may affect stock prices.

In short, everything anyone writes here (including this) lacks any authoritative or complete data to support it. Are raids out-of-date and not so much of a thing any longer? Could be. There's plenty of evidence that the several-hours-at-a-time playstyle of the past is fading in favor of shorter encounters that reward well. Blizzard still has a lot of faith that most of their content should be accessible during a lunch break (they've even said so recently). Self-appointed forum 'experts' should be taken with a grain of salt and the louder they bleat about the accuracy of their opinions, more salt needs to be added. Common sense about the realities of today with the sale as a paramount objective to get done are better guides than history I would think.

EDIT (one last one): Arguing about all of this is likely to be even more pointless if and when the MSFT sale is concluded. MSFT isn't likely to publish any data at all about WoW. Go look at their corporate reports and note how many line items are aggregates.

While we lack authoritative or complete data, some aspects are just logical and make sense. Dragonflight selling less and not breaking records is one of those things that are not official (yet), but heavily indicated due to various reasons.

Quarterly results will be released in about 2 weeks and we might know more by then, that everything's rosy at Blizzard is just not likely. Especially not after reports like this.

[MoanaLisa]

Quarterly results will be released in about 2 weeks and we might know more by then, that everything's rosy at Blizzard is just not likely. Especially not after reports like this.

I'm very skeptical that developers leaving or being fired has much if any effect on how many people actively play the game. The vast majority of players have no idea and are not likely to ever be aware of stuff like this. Dumping the mindset that stories like this is affecting business in any substantial way is the first thing that people need to do. For the most part it's about the game, not the people involved.

[khazmodan]

I'm very skeptical that developers leaving or being fired has much if any effect on how many people actively play the game. The vast majority of players have no idea and are not likely to ever be aware of stuff like this. Dumping the mindset that stories like this is affecting business in any substantial way is the first thing that people need to do. For the most part it's about the game, not the people involved.

Unfortunately, you are right on target, I think that gamers will use a big scandal as a reason why they quit the game but the bad entertainment experience is the reason why they are ready to quit the game and the scandal is a more socially acceptable reason to put forward. The NFL seems to have a big scandal every year but they continue making billions because it is still very entertaining for a lot of people.

[Hobbidaggy]

I think that's my biggest frustration with a small percentage of the fans - since BFA the most common defense I see of the game is "it's not THAT bad, there are worse MMOs". Like holy shit, how the mighty have fallen.

Well it’s not that bad. The game is not as bad as people are saying. There is a huge vocal group now that have jumped on the bandwagon of vocally calling out things and making it seem like there is more hatred than there is. I have played since about 2-3 months before BC came out and DF is one of the better expansions in the last few years.

The big problem that people are refusing to fully see is, it is a game that has a stigma of people not wanting to associate with it because it’s geeky and nerdy as well as a majorly aging player base who just do not have the time anymore to keep playing like they were when they were younger and the bigger numbers were coming in.

Add all of that with these days there is a LOT more content to play on consoles and PC with more availability to these games as opposed to being more physical based back when the game was huge.

Times are changing and so are the players, but the game is far from bad and if this was released after BFA to tie up the Azeroth issue people wouldn’t have been as angry but Shadowlands did some damage and DF is making up for that

[VMSmith]

I have played since about 2-3 months before BC came out and DF is one of the better expansions in the last few years.

I feel like you're both absolutely correct and wildly wrong here, at the same time.

For a certain type of player, like raidloggers and keyrunners, DF is amazing because it absolutely caters to how they want to play.

For what appears to be a good portion of players, casuals who just want some world or solo content, DF is utter garbage because it gives them almost nothing worth doing.

It all comes down to perspective.

In the past, Blizzard has done a decent job of keeping both of these separate player groups relatively happy. With DF they have firmly chosen one group and told the other group to hit the road ... and they're doing exactly that.

[arkanon]

Well it’s not that bad... I have played since about 2-3 months before BC came out and DF is one of the better expansions in the last few years.

So its better than Shadowlands. WoW, what a HUGE achievement. Classic case of "new expansion is better than the last expansion"

[Pratt]

It's not just that there are no numbers, which is a huge red flag by itself, but the content is significantly reduced and what exists is full of bugs. I'm confident that if we were provided any sort of real visibility we'd see that WoW numbers have fallen off a cliff and they were bad enough during sl that Blizz decided pumping cash into the next expansion wasn't worth it. I'm confident that we'll continue to see new expansions for years and years but df feels like a real turning point.

[Kokolums]

Haha, the absolute bullseye of this thread being at the top of the forums after I'm off the site for over six years and think "Gee, I wonder if MMO champion has changed at all or if it's still just one 50+ page thread after another about how the game is obviously on the brink of inevitable collapse due to Blizzard's neglect and incompetence."

Guess I'll check back in 2030 and see if you pack of utter circus clowns have decided to take a break and talk about the game.

in case you missed it, the fundamental systems of raids and dungeons were on the brink of collapse so they pulled the final ripcord and merged factions. thats just delaying the inevitable tho. wont be long now.

[arkanon]

It's not just that there are no numbers, which is a huge red flag by itself, but the content is significantly reduced and what exists is full of bugs. I'm confident that if we were provided any sort of real visibility we'd see that WoW numbers have fallen off a cliff and they were bad enough during sl that Blizz decided pumping cash into the next expansion wasn't worth it. I'm confident that we'll continue to see new expansions for years and years but df feels like a real turning point.

Blizzard still have an ace up their sleeves though - the 3 day 'trial'. I have absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that when they finally release their PR number, it will include some very clever wording: "over XYZ players have now entered the dragon isles!" and probably "XYZ players have tried the new race/class!". This isnt unique to Blizz, just to be clear, most if not all companies would do EXACTLY the same thing.

[Hobbidaggy]

So its better than Shadowlands. WoW, what a HUGE achievement. Classic case of "new expansion is better than the last expansion"

I also feel it’s better than WoD, BFA and very mildly Cata….if that helps? I just didn’t realise I had to explicitly spell out the expansions in the past few that have outnumbered the good ones which felt more fleshed out and adventurous.

[sam86]

Right but that video suggested that guild completion rate cratered in 9.2. And blizz (and even you) appear to be ok with that, which to me is crazy.

Blizz does not offer a lot compared to other mmo’s, basically they have dungeons, raids, and pvp, that’s about it. If you are not involved in one of those three, WoW is fairly empty in content. And if one of those pillars is failing, maybe a course correction is in order.

It’s the final raid of the xpac. Nerf it and figure out how to increase participation for next time.

technically they 'offer' old content that many players engage in solo, it is fun for some ppl to right click LK as mage now
for me it isn't, in fact it is what killed raiding for me, what i spend months non stop fighting, is now a right click mob as mage....
regardless for a lot of ppl (we have confirm from blizz that at least at blizzcon 2020 the online video edition) we have 2 info from blizz themselves: a) most ppl play alliance (yes no mistake here), b) most ppl are extreme casual, the type who at most do hc dungeon, almost no social interaction in game with anyone, they don't even do mythic dungeon

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So its better than Shadowlands. WoW, what a HUGE achievement. Classic case of "new expansion is better than the last expansion"

this doesn't happen as often as u think
no one claimed BFA is better than Legion, or WoD better than pandas, yeah bfa vs SL there was debut, but because both were shit

[arkanon]

this doesn't happen as often as u think
no one claimed BFA is better than Legion, or WoD better than pandas, yeah bfa vs SL there was debut, but because both were shit

This happens EVERY expansion. Rose tinted glasses mate. HEAPS of people did EXACTLY what you said noone ever did. It was ALL OVER the forums.

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I also feel it’s better than WoD, BFA and very mildly Cata….if that helps? I just didn’t realise I had to explicitly spell out the expansions in the past few that have outnumbered the good ones which felt more fleshed out and adventurous.

Few years does not equal few expansions. And WoD wasnt even within the last few expansions. But ill ask you this - how can you honestly claim something roughly 10% through its life is already better than something you experienced 100% of?

Also, just to be clear, you think DF (2 months in) is already "better" than the least liked expansions in the games history? Kinda sounds like saying HIV isnt a big deal because they can manage it now. Losing 3 fingers "isnt that bad" because some people have lost entire arms.

[sam86]

This happens EVERY expansion. Rose tinted glasses mate. HEAPS of people did EXACTLY what you said noone ever did. It was ALL OVER the forums.

again no, wod launch yeah had some fans, but BFA? BFA was hated from day one, SL was preferred over BFA but even a dog shit was better than BFA
this isn't rose tainting glasses, BFA didn't even have a honeymoon launch phase, no one liked it over Legion
no one liked cata at launch over wrath either

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Few years does not equal few expansions. And WoD wasnt even within the last few expansions. But ill ask you this - how can you honestly claim something roughly 10% through its life is already better than something you experienced 100% of

that i agree, i can't say DF is better (or worse) than bfa right now in general, but i can say that DF launch is better than last 2 exps

[arkanon]

that i agree, i can't say DF is better (or worse) than bfa right now in general, but i can say that DF launch is better than last 2 exps

Specifically in what way?

[Darkarath]

Specifically in what way?

IMO, DF is better just because of the systems. Azerite armor was utter shit until 8.2 (one of the best patches ever done). Plus BfA was soooo bugged when It came out. I am surprised to see lots of people complaining about DF in that regard. I have minor issues for the moment.

[Lurker1]

We have not seen any bragging from Blizzard about Dragonflight on any metrics whatsoever, is this because Dragonflight just didn't create enough hype or is it because Bfa and Shadowlands burned away a lot of player loyalty?.

I think your just being silly here op i never cared about numbers not in the past present or future.