My"I'm still salty about survival" post

[Subrias]

Bliz needs to just make survival into a ranged spec again. In heroic Vault, Survial has 10k parses which is over 1/20th of the parses of BM (220k) and MM (260k) over the last 2 weeks. It has the lowest number of parses per spec in the game with the next one being fire mage at 22k which is over double what SV is. You cant even argue that the damage is why noone plays it. The damage is about the same as BM is and is hovering around the middle of the pack. the reason is just that people who play hunter (for the most part) don't want to play a melee character.

[Nanuk]

I think the most fun I had as Survival was Highmaul / Blackrock Foundry. Multi-Strike with Multi-Shot applying Poisons was some cool AoE burst / dot damage, and you had Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, and I think a talent that did Frost damage? It's been awhile. I just remember liking it, since it felt like you were using every element to hit your enemies. Then it got the Hellfire Citadel nerf, and lost like 40 percent of its damage outright lol.

I've always thought Survival being melee was kind of cool, but it's just never felt flashy like other specs, and it's only played when it's stupidly broken (Shadowlands season 3 /4). Otherwise if I wanted bleeds / poisons, I'd just play a Rogue with more utility.

[Subrias]

I think the most fun I had as Survival was Highmaul / Blackrock Foundry. Multi-Strike with Multi-Shot applying Poisons was some cool AoE burst / dot damage, and you had Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, and I think a talent that did Frost damage? It's been awhile. I just remember liking it, since it felt like you were using every element to hit your enemies. Then it got the Hellfire Citadel nerf, and lost like 40 percent of its damage outright lol.

I've always thought Survival being melee was kind of cool, but it's just never felt flashy like other specs, and it's only played when it's stupidly broken (Shadowlands season 3 /4). Otherwise if I wanted bleeds / poisons, I'd just play a Rogue with more utility.

Doesn't that just kind of prove my point though? It got massive backlash when they announced they were going to make it mele and it has pretty much always been one of the lowest played specs in the game. I also tried it when it became a melee spec. it was fun, but i didnt want to play a melee character. I sadly also dont like the other 2 ranged specs any more. I never really liked the idea of relying on my pet to do a lot of my damage and if i wanted to sit still and cast an ability (aimed shot) i would play a caster (which i dont do becasue i dont like casting). I liked Survival during cata and mop because it was mobile and i didnt have to just plant myself.

[Nanuk]

Doesn't that just kind of prove my point though? It got massive backlash when they announced they were going to make it mele and it has pretty much always been one of the lowest played specs in the game. I also tried it when it became a melee spec. it was fun, but i didnt want to play a melee character. I sadly also dont like the other 2 ranged specs any more. I never really liked the idea of relying on my pet to do a lot of my damage and if i wanted to sit still and cast an ability (aimed shot) i would play a caster (which i dont do becasue i dont like casting). I liked Survival during cata and mop because it was mobile and i didnt have to just plant myself.

I was adding to your point with my own experience(s), not disagreeing.

[pahbi]

As a concept, survival is just the coolest thing blizz ever came up with.

I just wish blizz would work on the class a little more.

[Sparklelord]

I feel like with the new talent trees, there's room for them to add some sort of ranged playstyle support

[Subrias]

As a concept, survival is just the coolest thing blizz ever came up with.

I just wish blizz would work on the class a little more.

honestly i feel like beast master would have made more sense as a melee spec. More so because lore wise that is pretty much what Rexxar is. If they wanted to make Survival into a non ranged, i feel Tank would have been the better option. The name does kind of imply you are trying to survive which thematically would fit a tank role. Plus.. no mail wearing tanks in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel like with the new talent trees, there's room for them to add some sort of ranged playstyle support

that was actually the first thing i did when they released the talent trees. I went to see if i could make it a ranged spec again. lol

[Khaza-R]

The spec-focused design makes a lot of interesting playstyles but is also flawed in thinking every spec needs to be interesting or different for the sake of it.

I guess Blizzard felt they were returning the spec to its roots despite only being melee orientated for blip of the game's history.

[Subrias]

The spec-focused design makes a lot of interesting playstyles but is also flawed in thinking every spec needs to be interesting or different for the sake of it.

I guess Blizzard felt they were returning the spec to its roots despite only being melee orientated for blip of the game's history.

their original reasoning was something along the lines of "the 3 specs feel to similar". To which the hunter community playing survival at the time told them they were wrong. As for the melee part. Even in vanilla and bc when you went survival just because the extra agi talent made it better in later tiers, noone really took the melee tanlents outside of like improved wing clip.

[threads]

making SV melee is probably the biggest class design failure ever made. i feel like they keep it in the game so that they have 1 less spec to worry about tbh.

[Makaloff]

tbh the best way id say that they could do (that if blizzard ever get anyone that have a slight understanding what a hunter is as class designer) would be to have the tree split, so going on right side in the tree you lock into meele and going left you lock into ranged and then have shared talents in the middle row, thus people could choose and play the playstyle they want without compromising the either or the other. Thing ive realised after so many years after legion that blizzard is hellbent on keeping the specc meele but they dont even try to elevate the infected discussion within the hunter community. hell they even added a troll talent called "ranger" for MSV, like bruh, when are you ever gonna use Steady shot or Arcane shot as surv??

But in all honesty ive lost hope for the hunter class, DF looked good on paper but the class is struggling design wise so incredibly bad and blizzard is absolutely refusing to fix any of the issues hunters are dragging with so this will be the first expansion where i actually shelve my hunter. They knew MSV would be very little played but they again double down 4x times on the iteration, every expansion just making it worse.

[F Rm]

that was actually the first thing i did when they released the talent trees. I went to see if i could make it a ranged spec again. lol

Same here, sort of. While I was also focusing on the new talent trees themselves, much time was spent thinking of what could be done for a modern version of old SV.

Having said that, I'm less interested in reworking current SV for this purpose. I would rather they make old SV return as its own addition, separate from any existing spec within the class.

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[Swnem]

From the start it was never popular and it was only popular when it was meta. Being popular with meta players is an easy come easy go. So, it's back to normal.

[Dadwen]

other than a short *about a month try of playing again in BFA (mostly quit after they took RSV out) and how bad IMO all the class design was I'll never play retail again or buy another expansion unless they put a version of Ranged survival back (may not be enough to keep me playing, other things I don't like, scaling for example) but would at least give it a go at a chance to have my main back.

[Gimlix]

Bliz needs to just make survival into a ranged spec again. In heroic Vault, Survial has 10k parses which is over 1/20th of the parses of BM (220k) and MM (260k) over the last 2 weeks. It has the lowest number of parses per spec in the game with the next one being fire mage at 22k which is over double what SV is. You cant even argue that the damage is why noone plays it. The damage is about the same as BM is and is hovering around the middle of the pack. the reason is just that people who play hunter (for the most part) don't want to play a melee character.

Survival is the most fun spec yet the least damage

[Donkeywing]

Bliz needs to just make survival into a ranged spec again.

Blizz? Activision you mean. The most effective way to make it happen at this point is to go find an influential activision suit and have them take a look at sv numbers over the last 6-7years. Can you imagine blizz explaining how their most popular class has this extreme niche no one plays? The suits would probably axe the spec on the spot. No one rational would look at sv results over the years and think that's okay, blizz lost the plot.

It's actually somewhat impressive the spec didn't retain any of its popularity coming out of 9.2 and dropped down to dead last once again, instantly.

[Irian]

I know you can effectively make a pseudo-survival with the new marksman tree, but I agree OP, I just really miss the feel and gameplay of old survival and when it was removed, I kind of lost a lot of my interest in the class.

I don't want melee survival to go away because I think it's a fine spec and I think it fits to give hunters the option to be a melee attacker (although why the hell is it not dual wield???). I just want the whole general rotation and aesthetic of survival to still be playable. I miss stuff like explosive shot procs and dot management as a part of the hunter class, and marksman just doesn't scratch that itch the same way.

[Mysterymask]

Blizz? Activision you mean. The most effective way to make it happen at this point is to go find an influential activision suit and have them take a look at sv numbers over the last 6-7years. Can you imagine blizz explaining how their most popular class has this extreme niche no one plays? The suits would probably axe the spec on the spot. No one rational would look at sv results over the years and think that's okay, blizz lost the plot.

It's actually somewhat impressive the spec didn't retain any of its popularity coming out of 9.2 and dropped down to dead last once again, instantly.

You really think a dude that influential at Activision even knows what a survival hunter is? Much less even care? Reality this is how it would go down

Most Likely
Hello Mr Actvision dude did you realize how bad survival hunters ar..
Activision Dude: What fuck off kid
or
What does this have to do with our bottom line
or
"Now Available at the Blizzard store Ranged Survival only $10.99!"

[Nerdslime]

I mained hunter from vanilla to late WoD. I played it as almost a "dual main" when I took up tanking for my raid in HFC, but the Legion redesigns completely shook me and I've never really been able to be in love with the class play since.

Modern melee survival was a mistake. If they were hell-bent on melee hunter as an option it should've been Beast Mastery and it should've had dual-wield 1H as a viable equipment path to lean in to Rexxar.

Survival should be a heavily utilitarian DoT class with tons of mobility, slows, tranqs, traps, and so on. Big focus on these with tons of synergy between them, where setting traps or status effects up and then shooting mobs hit by these effects feels substantial and worth the investment in the setup.

While we're at it, Blizzard, let us Marksmanship players move during Aimed Shot again. This shouldn't be a debate. It's not really defensible design to make MM as immobile as a Warlock with none of the survivability or sideline raid utility (soulstone, summon, gate).

Despite a lot of naysayers, there really are some things Blizzard has done well in recent years, but Hunter definitely isn't one of them. They lost their way on this design and it sure seems like theyre stuck throwing good time and money after bad, so to speak, because they don't seem to be aware that the class is suffering from these baffling and sustained choices. When was the last time anyone you know really praised or enjoyed any spec of this very numerous class (outside of meta FOTM picks when it's numerically busted for a tier)?

[Donkeywing]

You really think a dude that influential at Activision even knows what a survival hunter is?

My post kind of hinges on the idea that they don't exactly know, so that's a pretty stupid retorical. And yeah if you approach them via twitter, that's exactly how it would go down. Regardless you shouldn't take my post too fucking literal in detail, it's the idea that matters. If they were to take a look at those stats, I think it's obvious what would happen.