Seriously, DO SOMETHING, stop punishing players!

[bullseyed]

"Don't Punish People"
"Ban them all!"

OK OP.

What OP is really saying is "why will no one carry me for free?"

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You know mmochamp had actual blue posters before right? With actual official title here and verified GM/CMs?

Yeah but it isn't 2008 anymore.

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I've had runs where we wipe once or twice, and still time the key.

Gratz on doing shitter keys?

At an appropriate key level, most of the dungeons aren't able to be timed with a single wipe. COS and SBG are the exceptions. Maybe AA depending on what you wipe to.

[Drutt]

Had a weird example of this the other day. DPS shaman died to arcanic cling/not jumping on Tyrannical, then bitched about not getting healed, then dumped group.

Not sure how he expected to get healed through that, especially given I (healer) also had to get rid of cling AND had to move out of an AOE at the same time, but that immediately busted the key and wasted everyone's time. Very frustrating.

Pugging in WoW has become incredibly unpleasant.

[bullseyed]

I'm a tank that leaves keys. Why? Let me explain

Hov 13. If we have 20 deaths before the first boss? I'm gone.

If we have dps pulling. Then wiping the group more than once? I'm gone.

It's more efficient for the whole group to focus on keys they can time than to enforce doing a depleted key.

Something kind of fun as a tank is if DPS start pulling just pull everything into the next boss, causing a full wipe. Repeat every time anyone pulls anything.

[Palapop]

What OP is really saying is "why will no one carry me for free?"

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Yeah but it isn't 2008 anymore.

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Gratz on doing shitter keys?

At an appropriate key level, most of the dungeons aren't able to be timed with a single wipe. COS and SBG are the exceptions. Maybe AA depending on what you wipe to.

Im disgusted by your toxicity and extremely wrong conclusions.

[bullseyed]

Had a weird example of this the other day. DPS shaman died to arcanic cling/not jumping on Tyrannical, then bitched about not getting healed, then dumped group.

Not sure how he expected to get healed through that, especially given I (healer) also had to get rid of cling AND had to move out of an AOE at the same time, but that immediately busted the key and wasted everyone's time. Very frustrating.

Pugging in WoW has become incredibly unpleasant.

Yeah, I mean either the people inviting did a bad job getting someone unqualified, or that guy was boosted/carried to a higher score than deserved.

Boosting and carrying is so rampant it is often hard to tell who is these days.

[agentsi]

What OP is really saying is "why will no one carry me for free?"

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Yeah but it isn't 2008 anymore.

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Gratz on doing shitter keys?

At an appropriate key level, most of the dungeons aren't able to be timed with a single wipe. COS and SBG are the exceptions. Maybe AA depending on what you wipe to.

Wtf are you talking about? If you can 2 or 3 chest +15-20 "shitter keys", you don't think you can still clear it after one wipe? But let me guess, you're clearing 30s at the moment, right? Don't talk shit without asking questions first, just sounds like you're just projecting and you look like a dumbass.

[bullseyed]

You'd be surprised how many ppl don't know their role even at 3k score. Ask a healer at that rating that pugs how many tanks he's seen not using his CDs. Or make retarded pulls in specific weeks where not viable. Or not tracking the dps CDs, for example pulling imps in CoS when the party has nothing to interrupt / stun with.
And yet, imagine, these ppl can be toxic and blame the healer or the dps either way.
And ask the healers how many dpses actually use defensives... toxic ppl are usually ppl who think they are better than the rest and that they need to take it out on ppl when someone ruins sometging for them - and just like in real life, that may or may not be true. And how many ppl truly take responsability for their own mistakes instead of looking at others...

If the DPS are using their AOE stuns before one of the imp pulls though, that's on the DPS as much as the tank.

[Alroxas]

Why should m+ players be excluded from that when they destroy someones key?

Destroy seems to be the wrong word here. Maybe downgrade is better. Moreover, there are plenty of keys out there. It's not like you can't join another player's key. It's not as convenient perhaps.

Seems like the indesructible keys is the best solution so far.

Except that brings about a different set of issues that aren't better. See "Perfect is the enemy of good" for the relevant arguments.

[bullseyed]

I'm sure it's been asked but are you even listing your groups as 'completion'?

Of course he isn't. Then he wouldn't get carried, he'd get a group of similar-skilled people who can't complete the key at all, much less on time.

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???

My guildies literally ask daily in /g or Discord "who wants to do keys", and we get groups going. Don't project your crap experiences on others. Of course there are stable groups for those who want to push hard, but it does not mean others never do anything.

He's probably in a normal raid prog guild.

[Grimbold21]

Had a weird example of this the other day. DPS shaman died to arcanic cling/not jumping on Tyrannical, then bitched about not getting healed, then dumped group.

Not sure how he expected to get healed through that, especially given I (healer) also had to get rid of cling AND had to move out of an AOE at the same time, but that immediately busted the key and wasted everyone's time. Very frustrating.

Pugging in WoW has become incredibly unpleasant.

This is one of the most frustrating things about playing a healer with randoms: coming across that one person that, intentionally or not, ignores mechanics and dies. Then has the audacity to complain about why they weren't healed.

Folks, it's not the healer's job to carry you through your own stupidity.

[bullseyed]

No, it means no one expects people to stick around in an 19AA on Tyr week after you've just wiped to Treeboss after spending lust.

Imagine being in a group that lusts treeboss postnerf.

[agentsi]

Im disgusted by your toxicity and extremely wrong conclusions.

Yeah, that dude seems to have some sort of mental illness. Unnecessarily toxic without even knowing what he's talking about. Always the worst kind of trolls.

[bullseyed]

Wtf are you talking about? If you can 2 or 3 chest +15-20 "shitter keys", you don't think you can still clear it after one wipe? But let me guess, you're clearing 30s at the moment, right? Don't talk shit without asking questions first, just sounds like you're just projecting and you look like a dumbass.

Anyone 3 chesting a 20 HOV is certainly capable of doing a 25.

[Drutt]

Boosting and carrying is so rampant it is often hard to tell who is these days.

Yeah. Ran a SBG the other day with a ret paladin who didn't interrupt one time during the entire run. Didn't use his stun once, didn't battle rez, didn't target switch first boss add, nothing.

He had a half decent rating so it was a pretty shocking performance. Even a fresh 70 should know how to push their interrupt key or stun something. Perhaps it won't be the right target if the player is less experienced, but it's still preferable to ignoring the button entirely.

[Femininity]

Most (90%+) keys I've depleted over +20 this season and over +25 or so in previous seasons are totally amicable. The group reaches a natural stopping point, and it's clear to everyone involved we're not going to progress. I had a rare final boss deplete in NO +15 earlier in the week helping a friend. We had plenty of time, but the leader was raging at the inexperienced tank he invited, which led to a series of questionable play choices on the part of the tank. It was a good waste of time, but again, if you don't vet your group members yourself, you don't really have a leg to stand on complaint-wise.

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Boosting and carrying is so rampant it is often hard to tell who is these days.

If you're doing a suitably high key and you don't check someone's io for multitudes of timed keys beyond the scope of what normal carries would pay for, I don't know what you're doing.

[Alroxas]

Not sure how he expected to get healed through that, especially given I (healer) also had to get rid of cling AND had to move out of an AOE at the same time, but that immediately busted the key and wasted everyone's time. Very frustrating.

It depends though right? For instance, a priest can mass dispel the cling in Court of Stars. Yes the mass dispel isn't up for every cling but it can be used which could mean more DPS uptime (maybe).

Pugging in WoW has become incredibly unpleasant.

Again this depends on where you are. For instance, first 3 weeks of DF was generally pretty good especially as you pushed higher. Now it's a bit more stratified. Certain brackets are worse to play in due to the general motivation of players for that bracket. Understanding what drives players can help you focus in on which key levels to do.

[Azharok]

Imagine being in a group that lusts treeboss postnerf.

All knowing and wise bullseyed, what pull would you then use it on as to maximise lust usage ? Since you can only fit 3, and you'd want one on either Crawth or Vex.

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It depends though right? For instance, a priest can mass dispel the cling in Court of Stars. Yes the mass dispel isn't up for every cling but it can be used which could mean more DPS uptime (maybe).

The point is, it's not the healer's responsability to save DPS from that mechanic.

[Alroxas]

The point is, it's not the healer's responsibility to save DPS from that mechanic.

True but I'm also pointing out that based on comp, some additional strategies may be expected.

So let's look at it from a different perspective. Should a mage be expected to help decurse other party members? It's not a DPS benefit (to the mage) but it does help the party out especially as not all healers can remove curses.

[ClassicPeon]

The key depletion is a Blizzard problem. Key depletion is what is punishing for people who offer their keys and have them wasted by leavers. You are punishing people for not being precognitive when they are forming groups because neither dungeon rating nor ilvl is a solid predictory of player behaviour.

You can go aroudn this behavior by stating that its a weekly or "no leavers" in the discription. its not a blizzard issue its an issue with players not communicating.

[Wavebossa]

I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but you HAVE to make a group/guild/team/w/e of people who you run with. That is the only difference between my experience and yours. I had about 15-20 people that I trusted in keys, and if they weren't on I wasn't' doing keys. Pugging will always be an objectively worse experience than running with people you know. Always.

A +20 and higher key with people you know and trust feels easier than a pug +15