Embelishments, Primordial Gems, and other new Borrowed Power systems

[klaps_05]

10.0.7 will most likely be out by end of February the latest. With the season expected to end around June, thats 4 months where everyone doing Mythic raiding or high keys or pvp will want this ring. It is in no way catchup for those behind, but rather mandatory for those who want to keep competing.

[FelPlague]

It's the same broken rot as domination gems. Respect the difficulty curve and say no to time grinds and rng shitfests.

If they must make a shit system like this add the gems to all content crafting ilv reagents drop from. Don't tie it to dull korean grind content like world rares.

"Time grinds rng shitfest" neither are true, domination gems took fucking forever, and required RNG to get the gems you wanted, and RNG to get the items that held the sockets.

"Korean grind content like world rares" LOL WHAT!?

[kamuimac]

10.0.7 will most likely be out by end of February the latest. With the season expected to end around June, thats 4 months where everyone doing Mythic raiding or high keys or pvp will want this ring. It is in no way catchup for those behind, but rather mandatory for those who want to keep competing.

it will be just a small push to get those extra 2-3 bosses in raid or 1-2 difficulty of m+ done.

it wont break the game .

people who are serious bout game either are already done or will be done with everything till it makes to game

[Tentim]

"Time grinds rng shitfest" neither are true, domination gems took fucking forever, and required RNG to get the gems you wanted, and RNG to get the items that held the sockets.

"Korean grind content like world rares" LOL WHAT!?

Same shit different pile.

[klaps_05]

it will be just a small push to get those extra 2-3 bosses in raid or 1-2 difficulty of m+ done.

it wont break the game .

people who are serious bout game either are already done or will be done with everything till it makes to game

nobody is talking about breaking the game, but rather that you will want to have the ring and the best 3 gems, all upgraded for maximum output. discrediting any guild outside of top100 is pretty cavalier. highest keys levels arent done until the very last push weeks. pvp ratings/titles and m+ cutoff and titles arent finalized until the very last day of season 1.

[Glorious Leader]

That's always been users' problem with borrowed power, the "borrowed" part means you need to give it back. The devs agree with that (now), but that isn't primarily why they changed it. They changed it because they were spending untold person-years of effort to build complex systems and user interfaces... and then throwing them away in two years. So now they're trying to focus their effort on evergreen systems rather than ephemeral ones.

The ring is absolutely an ephemeral system, and it is absolutely borrowed power. BUT, how much effort did it take to implement? Very little. There's no UI, it's just a couple of custom gems. Probably took the same amount of development time to build as two or third tier bonuses. No big deal, compared to something like Azerite armor. And while it is borrowed power, so is tier gear, and so are trinkets. This is comparable.

Yes folks you can rest assured at no point did the developers spend an appreciable amount of time, effort or money on this It all went into raids and M+ and shit you didn't even get that many dungeons. Worry not folks daddy developer is still firmly on the side of raid loggers everywhere.

[VMSmith]

I've only looked into the ring and it seems like it could be fun. It'll really depend upon how enjoyable the vaults are, for me, but the basic concept for the ring itself is nothing I would have a problem with.

[Tentim]

I've only looked into the ring and it seems like it could be fun. It'll really depend upon how enjoyable the vaults are, for me, but the basic concept for the ring itself is nothing I would have a problem with.

Just make it drop from all content. Don't force people to engage in the sideshow. Make them drop like crafting ilv reagents.

[FelPlague]

Same shit different pile.

Not same shit though, they are nothing alike, what are you on about?

[Tentim]

Not same shit though, they are nothing alike, what are you on about?

It's a boring grindy system tied to content I have no interest in. See above for the compromise.

[Glorious Leader]

Just make it drop from all content. Don't force people to engage in the sideshow. Make them drop like crafting ilv reagents.

They tried that before and people still complained. Legiondaires could be acquired from all content and it just led to fucking petty whining.

[Xylense]

gems, enchants, embellishments are not borrowed power. They're loot. They're gear.

Borrowed power wasn't the item in your weapon slot during Legion, or the item on your neck slot in BFA.

Borrowed power was the Artifact Power Grind, Azerite Power Grind, the expansion long currency, the expansion long unlocks limited entirely to that expansion.

People trying to describe anything else in terms of borrowed power is misunderstood at best and disingenuous at worst. There is a collective understanding to the term borrowed power, and it is not loot or tier sets. It is the expansion-wide power grind system that is very tightly coupled to a single expansion and almost all of its features. Even if you swing a dictionary and try to do semantic gymnastics over individual definitions of borrowing, and what power is, we know that gear and gems are not borrowed power as we've come to describe a design pattern in Legion/BFA/Slands.

Dragonflight has no borrowed power. People attempting to re-define borrowed power or insist upon very minor things that fall under the RPG design umbrella, like crafting embellishments and legendary gems, can convince themselves everything about RPGs is borrowed power and they hate all of

[jeezusisacasual]

I think most of the people on this forum in general want to raid log only and moan like a 3 year old in Smyths toy store when they have to engage with content outside of their purview. But these are also the same morons who would then say that their is nothing to do but cant grasp the idea to just unsub and come back later after they have completed their field of content.

[Tentim]

I think most of the people on this forum in general want to raid log only and moan like a 3 year old in Smyths toy store when they have to engage with content outside of their purview. But these are also the same morons who would then say that their is nothing to do but cant grasp the idea to just unsub and come back later after they have completed their field of content.

Imagine only wanting to play the parts of the game they enjoy and not wanting bis locked behind something as relevant to them as pet battles.

Must be mad men.

[Tojara]

Borrowed power how I frame it is something that just never comes with you and has fairly obvious implications on how your class plays, feels and well, in some cases builds their talent pools. Embellishments are limited to two, and AFAIK they're basically 1.5 to 2% flat bonuses that just give you more throughput. At the very high end maybe they're 5% of your total power (total, not individually), but they're more or less just a stat stick. I put them in the bucket of tier set bonuses that offer essentially nothing in regards to changing how your character plays feels, and offers something akin to 5% more damage with your sinister strike or 3% more crit with 'x' ability.

Embellishments currently are essentially enchants and while I might be missing something, I doubt anybody in their right mind would ever claim an enchant in WoW has ever been 'borrowed' power.

Borrowed power is way too much of a buzzword for people to bash things in the game without truly understanding what it is/isn't. Legendary powers from Legion that come and go that truly change the way your character plays is IMO borrowed power. The expansion ends most of them find their way into the nether, and sometimes they become core abilities or talents (which I wouldn't call borrowed power, because uh, it comes with us). Same can be said for some Azerite powers in BFA, neck abilities in BFA. While not in my definition of borrowed power, I would still claim that corruption is some weird middle ground because the bonuses it offered while mostly stat stick, changed the way you played so much by giving absolutely absurd stat values or giant procs.

Are embellishments borrowed power? Not to me. They're more like 2 enchants you can get, and the primal gems you can get from JC are also like an enchant. It's not something that fundamentally changes your playstyle and those 3 things combined probably amount to 5% of your total power.

It's sort of funny because a lot of people would be remiss to mention that tier set bonuses are essentially borrowed power as well, and mald on the forums when Blizzard took them away in BFA and the first tier of each expansion in for the past 3-4 expansions. Early tier sets were mostly stat sticks and sometimes not even worth using. By the time we reached late WoTLK some of the tier sets actually changed how your class felt or enabled certain builds to shine (or give more flexibility).

When we start narrowly looking at all of this shit somebody could just make an argument that everything is fucking borrowed power and it's just a stupid argument. Are enchants borrowed power now? You borrow that power until the next expansion comes out with new enchants, or the next tier even when you replace gear. Are gems? They get better over an expansion. New tier? Yeah that's borrowed as well because you replace them. I don't subscribe to this idea at all and I'm just being stupid, but realistically the only times in WoW that I'd argue were really "borrowed" was Legion/BFA and some parts of SL. What a rabbit hole we're going down if we start to think things that don't change how your class plays in an ARPG should be purged or labeled as "borrowed". Better remove gems, enchants, trinkets, set bonuses and a host of other things in the game too.

[Glorious Leader]

Imagine only wanting to play the parts of the game they enjoy and not wanting bis locked behind something as relevant to them as pet battles.

Must be mad men.

Oh you are more than welcome to play the parts of the game you enjoy exclusively. Now imagine dictating that other people can't have nice things because you lack the capability to not do the thing you don't want to do.

These people are typically referred to as sociopaths. Quite mad indeed

[Redroniksre]

I don't want a tedious grind on each toon I want to play. I just want to play my chosen content. I'm not going out wanting world rares locked to completing all of your classes mage tower challenges.

Then don't get the ring my guy. You don't need it to complete Mythic VoI. PvP may be a different matter depending if they let it work in there or not, but all the other content was made without the ring in mind. And if you aren't done with gearing by now, then you definitely won't need it for next season.

[huth]

It's a boring grindy system tied to content I have no interest in. See above for the compromise.

It's a ring you will at most use for 3 months towards the end of the season. If you don't care, it's fully reasonable to simply not get it. It's not that big a deal.

[Peacemoon]

Embellishments are the same as soulbinds and conduits? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[jeezusisacasual]

Imagine only wanting to play the parts of the game they enjoy and not wanting bis locked behind something as relevant to them as pet battles.

Must be mad men.

Then simply do not do it. The BIS raid stuff does not pertain to me anymore either so i do not worry about it at all you can choose to engage with the outside of your lane content or not its as simple as that. Also i would say it is mad to chase .5% increases anyway and if you feel pressured or forced or it becomes a requirement its on the people you play with more so then the game itself since its been proven to be beaten without it. This is why the AP grinds never bothered me since i just treated them as something that just happens and the catch up systems will be so generous that its pointless to worry about them to begin with and i have largely been right since every break i take which is after KSM has never lead me to feel so far behind i could not catch up with a week or 3 at most ( since i also pick whatever is flavor of the month to come back to ).