The most badass Orcs.

[Aucald]

That Orc you meet as a quest giver in hilsbrad. I forget his name. But his deeds will be remembered.

Kingslayer Orkus?

[username993720]

Very much agree. He ranks up there with the big names of the first and second war.

It took the entire Alliance as well as Horde rebel factions combined to defeat him. Not a small feat for an army mostly consisting of Orcs and Goblins. It's basically Orcs versus the rest of the world and they almost won.

Not just his actions. The voice actor, the tone, the attitude. He's got to be my favourite character in the game. They did him dirty with the censoring and death.

[AcidicSyn]

Kingslayer Orkus?

YEESSSSS! RiP Orkus and Kasha

[Aucald]

YEESSSSS! RiP Orkus and Kasha

You can apparently see his ghost (and Kasha) if you're dead in and around Tarren Mill - I wasn't aware of that until I read down the WoWPedia article.

[AcidicSyn]

You can apparently see his ghost (and Kasha) if you're dead in and around Tarren Mill - I wasn't aware of that until I read down the WoWPedia article.

I did not know that either. Thats a nice little touch. I may have to do a naked jump to get a screenie with the old boy.

[Varodoc]

They did, twice.

First in Warcraft 1 when they razed Stormwind. The Kingdom of Stormwind was utterly defeated and the people fled north.

This is wrong, the Alliance didn't exist in WC1, all the Horde did in the First War was defeat ONE isolated human kingdom. The northern kingdoms rejected Stormwind's call for military aid. And even then, the Horde's victory came at a great cost (with the Chronicles explicitly noting that the Horde took "heavy losses"), with Doomhammer not even celebrating the fall of Stormwind.

Then the Horde did so again during the second war. Even the combined might of all the Human Kingdoms, along with the Dwarves and Elves stood no chance against the onslaught of the Horde. Quel'Thalas was backed into a corner and could no longer help out the other factions, they were too busy defending their home land and were on the verge of losing

This is obviously a biased rewriting of the events, since in the actual Canon, the Amani were unable to breach the Sunwell shield around Silvermoon (so the Elves would hold), and the Horde threatened Lordaeron Capital solely and exclusively because Alterac betrayed the Alliance. That was the only reason why Doomhammer was able to threaten the Capital in the first place. The Alliance had fortified all routes into Lordaeron and a large army led by Lothar, Turalyon, and Alleria was already in march to reinforce the Capital. If Alterac didn't betray the Alliance and actually fought to slow down the Horde, Doomhammer would not have threatened Lordaeron in the first place; as, by the time he got to Lordaeron, it would have already been reinforced by the full might of the Alliance army.

Unlike in Canon, where Lordaeron wasn't protected by the Alliance army, due to Perenolde's betrayal allowing Doomhammer to get there before Lothar's army could. Nevertheless, King Terenas himself held out long enough for reinforcements to arrive.

So you could say that the only way the Horde ever got close to threatening Lordaeron's Capital City was thanks to a HUMAN (King Perenolde).

that the Alliance saw an opportunity to fight back.

It's not like the Alliance was taking blows the entire time lol. You act like the Alliance was getting bullied, when in reality they were fighting the Horde all over Hillsbrad and Hinterlands and they had even blocked all routes leading to Lordaeron's Capital and an army was already moving to reinforce the Capital, the only reason why Lordaeron was endangered was solely and exclusively because of King Perenolde turning rogue and allowing Doomhammer to bypass all the Alliance's fortifications and move into Lordaeron from the mountains.

So yeah, the Alliance has been brought to their knees. Multiple times.

Ironforge wasn't brought to their knees, Gnomeregan wasn't brought to their knees, Silvermoon wasn't brought to their knees, Aerie Peak wasn't brought to their knees, Stromgarde wasn't brought to their knees, Gilneas wasn't brought to their knees, Dalaran wasn't brought to their knees, Kul Tiras wasn't brought to their knees, and Lordaeron wasn't brought to their knees.

And if you're going to argue "well Lordaeron would have fallen if Gul'dan didn't betray Doomhammer", I'm just going to point out the obvious fact that Doomhammer wouldn't have threatened the Capital in the first place if Perenolde didn't betray the Alliance.

So who did the Horde actually "bring to their knees"? Aside from Stormwind ofc, which ironically was brought to their knees, once again, after an internal betrayal (Garona killing King Llane; before that, the defenders were actually holding out, and Stormwind was isolated anyway, there was no Alliance at the time).

It took the entire Alliance as well as Horde rebel factions combined to defeat him. Not a small feat for an army mostly consisting of Orcs and Goblins. It's basically Orcs versus the rest of the world and they almost won.

You should probably mention how they were empowered by the Heart of Y'Shaarj, the strongest Old God who made the Titans themselves intervene directly against him.

With this kind of logic you can say Rome never was one of the biggest empires of the world, just because they end fucked later.

This comparison literally makes 0 sense.

Rome became an empire and this is a fact. The Horde never got the Alliance to their knees, and this is another fact. The Horde didn't "fuck up later", they never got in such a position in the first place. All of their attempts to bring the Alliance to their knees (Theramore, Teldrassil) failed spectacularly and only reinvigorated the Alliance's drive to fight and led to war escalation, which was the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they wanted.

The alliance was in shambles and would be annihilated if it was not by the horde civil war, back in mop, that is a fact

This obviously happened only in your headcanon, since nowhere in the source material is it stated that the Alliance would have been "annihilated" without the Horde civil war. There is not a single line anywhere ever hinting at even the slightest possibility of the Horde under Garrosh breaching Stormwind, Ironforge, Teldrassil, or the Exodar.

Stormwind did not put up a struggle; they were destroyed with ease. And the ICC buff is pure gamelplay.

This is easily disproven by the Chronicles, where not only it is stated that Stormwind actually won decisively in the Horde first siege on Stormwind (Chronicles explicitly notes that the Horde's crushing defeat in the first siege of Stormwind was their "biggest disaster" that "infuriated" Blackhand), but also that, in the second and final siege, Stormwind's defenders were holding out in the streets against the invaders and only lost after Garona betrayed and killed King Llane.

So No, Stormwind was not "destroyed with ease" at all and they actually put up quite a fight, delivering to the Horde their biggest disaster yet and inflicting heavy losses on them.

[Aresk]

So what was the strategic effect of destroying Theramore?

He killed a whole bunch of people, and one of the people stopping the Alliance from attacking him (Jaina) stopped trying to cover for the Horde, i think losing Jaina's tempering effect on Varian was a net loss compared to the tactical benefit in nuking Theramore.

And i'm not sure if the ICC raid-nerfing buff is canonically something Garrosh did (Or if that buff even exists in lore), that's one for the experts to decide...

But his other schemes, invasion of Ashenvale, divine bell, Krasarang, goopy old god heart, all either failed or backfired.

I don't pretend to know Garrosh's strategic reasoning; I haven't read the novel in which that was discussed. The mana bomb was his plan, though, and it ultimately succeeded. Whether it was a good decision or not (I personally fall in the "not" camp) doesn't ultimately change the fact that he set forth a goal and achieved it. Overall, I do think he was a pretty big failure, but he did succeed at some things.

Stormwind did not put up a struggle; they were destroyed with ease. And the ICC buff is pure gamelplay.

Stormwind was defeated with such ease that it took two different sieges to take the city, leading Blackhand to nearly kill two of his allies because of their big screw-up during the first assault, and the Azeroth forces managed to kill the Horde's greatest ally on Azeroth, Medivh. I would not characterize that as "with ease."

As for Garrosh's involvement with ICC, his campaign in Northrend won him the love of the Horde and got him nominated to interim Warchief in Cataclysm. Whether you consider the buff to have a lore significance (Garrosh boosting morale) or not, he was still considered to have succeeded in leading the Horde Northrend expedition.

[Le Conceptuel]

some mighty whitey

I still don't get this insistence that Turalyon is a "mighty whitey" archetype. You still have yet to explain to anybody why you feel this way.

[AcidicSyn]

I still don't get this insistence that Turalyon is a "mighty whitey" archetype. You still have yet to explain to anybody why you feel this way.

Maybe he thinks that the Draenei taught him how to use the light for some reason?

[Kithelle]

There is no honor in betraying your own faction and aiding the enemy. I am glad he is dead and can't damage us any further. Now only Baine and Thrall also need to be punished.

SO you'd rather the Orcs would have all be sacrificed to death?

Fighting for your people instead of letting them die in a pointless war to fuel WoW's version of Lucifer is bad is basically what you're saying

[Syegfryed]

Aye, you're doing a lot of disagreeing with the truth.

Boba Fett is another overhyped character who never deserved it, same as Broxigar.

Seems to me that you've a dangerously low bar for what you consider 'badass'.

Or, is that you don't know what a badass is, have different opinion on characters and think just because you don't like it, they aren't.

You mean how he ruined my favorite bank roof by placing his shitty palace in its place, and put god-ugly spikes everywhere, to defend against an attack that only ever occurred because he himself was being an idiot? This is what you consider your top-tier arguments for things he did right?

Except it also defended against the legion and the alliance attack from azshara

Made the city an actual fortified city with metal so it does not catch fire anymore, expanded the horde territories, removed alliance from their own territories, made the horde a militar potency, training more soldiers, training mages and so on so on.

But he did everything wrong, because he replaced your ''favorite bank roof" hilarious

By that token, you might say it was Putress' fault.

No, it was Varian, he himself wanted to wipe out the orcs,

do yout hink he went after undercity and sylvanas or the horde in kalindor?

I don't really give a shit that Varian was the one to make the declaration of war. War happened because the developers wanted it to, because they decided that without Arthas to be a strong antagonist,

Ah, just because now it completely breaks your argument that it was not Garrosh fault now you want to say it does not matter and you don't care?

weak, rly weak logic.

He was not an idiot by "attacking the alliance", he did the right thing to fight back, period.

False.

100% true, those are not horde posts, sorry.

Every actual horde players know Garrosh was the best thing that happened to horde in cataclysm, and only in mop that he became a villain.

Utter nonsense. The Warsong were not uniquely affected by the bloodrage; the rest of the Horde was fully capable of standing shoulder-to-shoulder against Archimonde at Hyjal. Grom chose of his own volition to be re-corrupted because he wanted power.

Of course they were capable of standing against archimonde, BECAUSE GROM BROKE THE CURSE, SO THEY COULD DO IT

LOOOOL

I like how you fail to make any excuse for him attacking Jaina's forces. Perhaps you know that his actions then were inexcusable, being in direct violation of Thrall's orders and serving no real purpose.

why he would not attack then? they are humans, enemies the same as the quilboar, we literally saw then capturing grom in the very first mission of the game, and again, he was already being affected by the demons coming back, that is something thrall also mention in the prologue

You know damn well that the night elves attacked because the Warsong were harvesting lumber. You know damn well that Grom's response was "fuck 'em, we're taking it anyway"

And you know damn well that Grom only said "fuck then" when THEY start killing the workers first

They shot first, just because orcs were getting lumber

If you think if getting some lumber is justifiable enough for the night elves to slaughter the orcs, that some serious issues right there.

The night elves didn't warn then, they didn't made themselves visible or know, never made sure for the outsiders to know the forest had people living on it, they brought into themselves. So spare me about 'diplomatic shit" pretending it was his fault. If they wanted, they could have put signals, they were arrogant thinking they would end the orcs easily

I'm not sure how you could possibly argue that Grom wasn't being incredibly stupid. He routinely made himself into an obstacle rather than an asset.

An obstacle that the elves made, because they were a bunch of xenophobic twats that kill people on the post that he removed itself?

- - - Updated - - -

The Night elves know the forest better than anybody, and they were ambushed by *Goblin shredders* of all things, the things that everybody (Especially with ears the size of Night elves) can hear coming a mile away.

Magic can make then not make sound.

not all elves should be legolas with inhuman senses, that is racial profile

Face it: Garrosh was indeed *that* dumb, and the Alliance was dumbed right down with him, there's no conspiracy theory, just the fact that Blizz can't write clever tactics, so that pretty much all battles are insulting to both sides, because any instance of tactics comes down to "Who is least dumb wins" (Or the Horde pulls out some magical McGuffin they stole somewhere)

Not rly, he was a great strategist, canonically proved by his campaign against the Lich king, that even Saurfang was surprised

Fun fact: Garrosh succeeded at nothing, canonically (If not noticeable in-game, but i'll leave that aside for now) all his grand plans either failed or backfired on him.

EXCEPT HE Succeed in wtlk and most of the wtlk and mop?? He only lost rly, in ashenvale, because yes.l

- - - Updated - - -

This comparison literally makes 0 sense.

no, the comaprison made a lot of sense.

The horde put the alliance in their knees in mop, and they would have destroyed then if it was not by the civil war, and even that, they almost lost. As showed in the old god visions.

[DaHomieG]

I actually really liked Malkorok during the MoP campaign. It's a shame he went out as a bad guy; we need more Blackrock orcs in the Horde.

[Varodoc]

The horde put the alliance in their knees in mop

This never happened.

Before the civil war escalated in patch 5.3, the Alliance was able to deprive Garrosh of the Divine Bell, save Anduin's life, gain the allegiance of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran, and contest control over the Krasarang Wilds (with even one victory at the Temple of the Red Crane).

^ This was the geopolitical scenario of the war right before civil war escalated.

At no point did Garrosh ever "put the Alliance in their knees" in MoP, even when he had the united Horde at his command.

and they would have destroyed then if it was not by the civil war,

Baseless headcanon, there is no indication of this in the source material.

As showed in the old god visions.

This means nothing, as Old Gods perceive all possible futures, but cannot identify the real one. So there's no evidence that that future would have come to pass.

[Syegfryed]

This never happened.

Except it did happened, the alliance was losing in many fronts and losing foothold in pandaria, if it was not by the civil war, and a combined attack to orgrimmar everyone was going to be fucked.

Before the civil war escalated in patch 5.3, the Alliance was able to deprive Garrosh of the Divine Bell, save Anduin's life, gain the allegiance of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran, and contest control over the Krasarang Wilds (with even one victory at the Temple of the Red Crane).

So? do you literally forgot how he blow theramore, a massive and important foothold of the alliance in kalindor, to hell? and destroyed most of their naval power? in tides of war?

Baseless headcanon, there is no indication of this in the source material.

No, it was show if they didn't defeat Garrosh he would have conquered the world and it would eventually fall to the legion, that is a fact, the visions show possible outcomes, all realities

This means nothing, as Old Gods perceive all possible futures, but cannot identify the real one. So there's no evidence that that future would have come to pass.

all the possible futures showed by the old gods are real ones, in a way that all of hey can happen, only one happens anyway, but that is to show this is was a possibility.

[Arikara]

-snip-

I see that we are moving a whole lot of goalposts such that we can bend over backwards to align with your kill-all-non-orcs viewpoints.

You've yet to present any case that doesn't revolve around a xenophobic orc-supremacist view—a laughable approach to anything.

Fools like you are the reason the Alliance fanatics have so much fodder. You only give them more ammunition. As I told the other extremist fanatic Grazrug, it is in large part your fault that the faction cohesion of the Horde has been irreversibly damaged. Your ridiculous standpoint only makes the Horde weaker.

[Syegfryed]

I see that we are moving a whole lot of goalposts such that we can bend over backwards to align with your kill-all-non-orcs viewpoints.

there is no "moving goalposts" you brought then up, you use wrong things to justify to say "every single thing Garrosh did was wrong and dumb" (or "Grom was dumb") and you get corrected about then.

Yes, he did shit, but not everything, and its denying reality to not acknowledge his deeds trough wtlk and cataclysm

You've yet to present any case that doesn't revolve around a xenophobic orc-supremacist view—a laughable approach to anything.

Funny to bring up "xenophobic orc supremacist" when you gloss over the xenohpobic night elves

Fools like you are the reason the Alliance fanatics have so much fodder. You only give them more ammunition. As I told the other extremist fanatic Grazrug, it is in large part your fault that the faction cohesion of the Horde has been irreversibly damaged. Your ridiculous standpoint only makes the Horde weaker.

The problem with the horde, at least in this forum, is alliance players pretending to be horde, or pretending to know more about horde, while ignoring anything that happened before MOP. Short memory.

When you will see that their favorite horde characters is Baine, and they play blood elves.

[guro-tchai]

i'm surprised that Hellscream #1 is on the list, but Hellscreams #2 and #3 aren't - especially considering that the former is traditionally pwned by demons. "you have no vision!"

#3 has an enormous potential as a character. following is an expansion concept, in which he is properly introduced.
in the aftermath of SL, we find out that the undead of the Scourge somehow didn't kill everyone in our absence, and didn't get their deserved rest either. we do fight against them in Quel'thalas, however. led by a moustache-twirling, seemingly independent San'layn, the undead are as endless and as horrifying as ever.
why are they still obeying orders - to attack Silvermoon, as in this case, or to stand down elsewhere? i'd say that the domination, binding them to the Lich King previously didn't just evaporate, but was instead captured by others - essentially turning a centralized organism of the Scourge empire into multiple warbands, controlling Northrend and the Plaguelands.

are we to fight the undead armies for the third time in WoW's lifetime? not exactly. that could be the next expansion's kick-off - a familiar threat, but this time the Army of the Light is coming to save the day. the expansion starts with their mothership, Xe'radar, blasting Stratholme with a beam of purifying light, which is almost universally met with joy. led by the so-called Mother of the Light and under military command of Yrel and exarch Hellscream, these crusaders are appalled by the condition of Azeroth and our permissiveness of various forms of corruption - acceptance of the Forsaken, warlocks, death knights, demon hunters and naaru abuse by thalassians of both factions. seeing how the issue of soul-crippled, tortured undead of Azeroth was ignored by its denizens, and how noone bats an eye when elves are feeding on M'uru soup, they accuse us of moral degradation and lay claim to both factions.
in comparison to the Legion's invasion, their goal is not to kill everyone (incl., the planet itself) and burn their souls in their engines, but rather to bring us to the one true path of the Light. some join them willingly - exarch Turalyon turns Stormwind into a stronghold of the Army. he imprisons Alleria, thinking that she still can be spared from the inquisition and healed from her void infusion. her opinion isn't taken into consideration.

Lighted lands of the northern Lordaeron is the 11.0 content, we're defending Sunwell in 11.1, liberating Stormwind in 11.2 and storming Xe'radar on the orbit in 11.3. in the final cinematic, Xe'ra is infuriated with her defeat, is reborn into a void entity which threatens to merge with Azeroth itself - forcing the latter to be born and use the what-sword from Silithus to cut the ex-naaru in half. boom, cut to K'aresh in 12.0.

what's the role of exarch Hellscream in all of this?
as Yrel's right hand, he's on the frontlines of the propagation of the true path. apart from being a buff orc with sand-colored, dry, flaky skin from all that Light he's been experimentally exposed to, he's lost his left hand during the conversion of AU Draenor. copying ways of the Shattered Hand and giving homage to Kargath, he combined Light magic and Iron Horde tech in a prosthetic light-flamethrower. like most of the artificer troops of the Army (yes, a tinker class is possible), he's using a modified Iron Star for traveling.

back on Draenor, pre-mag'har scenario, he saw the technological stagnation and unyielding orcish traditionalism as a decline - especially in comparison to the rising power and faith of the draenei after the arrival of Xe'ra. the Army promised him and likeminded orcs a new purpose, so they gladly took the offer to join. in turn, they brought the Iron Horde assets into the Army's arsenal.
Light does not tolerate anything that refuses to integrate within it, so Life and Spirit, once overflowing on Draenor, got squeezed out. this kills the planet. Hellscream's devotion to the cause was not entirely broken, but still damaged. seeing what happens to the Plaguelands after the purification, he can no longer deny that the same treatment will devastate this new world. the fate of the undead, caught in the initial blast isn't reassuring either - the souls are captured, brainwashed and forced to pilot constructs (yes, basically jailoor 2.0 but shiny). while he has little compassion for warlocks and other degenerates, distilling the M'uru essence from blood elves doesn't seem in line with the promises of the Light.
around 11.1, he changes sides with a cohort of his lightbound followers, and fights alongside us till the end.

why?
as others have pointed out, there's hardly any orcish characters left. we have Thrall, who should be on antidepressants all the time, dumb as rock Geya'rah, senile and humiliated Eitrigg and?..
Garrosh's part in SL was one of the few things in SL that didn't make me want to vomit - and i don't think i'm alone in this. Hellscreams are popular and forever will be, but they killed both of those we've interacted with at least twice - MU/AU or in flesh/in spirit. wasting a third one as a raid boss (and as a recolored WoD Blackhand) when you've a chance to make a cool orcish character would be a mistake.


but that's only a potential badass orc. another badass orc is Garrosh Hellscream - you just don't know it yet. no, i'm not talking about his military successes, i'm talking about his impact on representation in-game that hardly anyone ever mentions.
orcs can't be described as asexual - their progenitiveness seems to be on the level. as eastern thinkers have pointed out, between a strong horse and a weak horse people tend to prefer the strong one. naturally, the strongest gets ample opportunity to pass on their genes, like Genghis Khan, who's apparently the ancestor of half of asian population.
Garrosh was in the same position as our example, but seems to have left no offspring. of course, he was the warchief only for a couple years, but it's weird that he didn't even try. nor do we know anything about his exploits during his time in Garadar. his daddy issues are universally acknowledged, and as the warchief, his closest entourage consisted exclusively of men - Malkorok, Sauranok, Nazgrim, despite that Thrall's Horde was purportedly gender-equal. but Zaela, you say! she, in fact, proved to be the most initiative and loyal of his supporters, but that didn't seduce our subject in the slightest. on the contrary, in SoO he didn't even let her inside the city, and after his escape to Draenor she was sent back to Azeroth.
we do not have conclusive proof, but Garrosh being gay seems to be entirely possible, if not likely. there's even a term for women in the same position as Zaela (not meant as a derogatory!). it's nothing out of ordinary for men of his status - compare Alexander the Great, Frederick the Great or emperor Hadrian. back in 2010 or even 2008, Blizzard was miles ahead of everyone while making a revolutionary, yet subtle effort in representation - who else made a troubled, charismatic, nuanced bear the center of their narrative? look upon their current hamfistedness and despair.
which is the reason why exarch Hellscream will be a shiny Blackhand with the same shrieks and a perpetual chimp-out mode.

[Raisei]

SO you'd rather the Orcs would have all be sacrificed to death?

Fighting for your people instead of letting them die in a pointless war to fuel WoW's version of Lucifer is bad is basically what you're saying

Yeah I tried making him understand this several times now, but he chooses to be blind to any reality that does not present his favourite Horde leaders as the greatest people on the planet while blaming Baine and Saurfang for every bad thing that happened.

Just look at the hilarious hypocrasy of calling out Alleria for fighting in a war to defend her home, but worshipping Sylvanas despite her attempts to wipe out reality (including all Orcs).

Arguments simply do not work on someone that is not thinking logically, so he will either ignore you or state his version of reality in which Sylvanas was working for the Horde the entire time and the Horde only did not end up as the world's greatest power now because of Baine and Saurfang.

[Varodoc]

Except it did happened, the alliance was losing in many fronts

Which fronts?

and losing foothold in pandaria,

Last I checked, the Alliance and Horde were evenly balanced in Pandaria and no faction could get a clear advantage over the other.

The Alliance succeeded in liberating the Temple of the Red Crane from the Horde, managed to destroy the Divine Bell, and rescued Anduin, these are facts that disprove the idea that Garrosh was winning in Pandaria.

Garrosh wasn't winning shit.

do you literally forgot how he blow theramore, a massive and important foothold of the alliance in kalindor, to hell?

YES, with a NUKE, after using DECEPTION strategies.

I thought this thread was about "badass" orcs, but there's nothing badass about using deception strategies to nuke a civilian target.

Nor was there anything badass in this:




There is literally nothing badass in anything that happened before, during, or after Theramore's destruction, on the Horde side.

The Alliance was badass, with Rhonin and the rest of the soldiers sacrificing themselves to allow Jaina to escape.

There is nothing badass on the Horde side. What is badass about blowing up a civilian centre and then hunting down the survivors who can't even fight back?

If you think Garrosh is badass, then you might as well say that Krom'gar was badass too. Very clearly, the term "badass" has lost all its meaning to you.

a massive and important foothold of the alliance in kalindor

Which didn't amount to anything, since Tyrande and the Kaldorei still controlled Ashenvale and attacked Orgrimmar's gates. If Garrosh's plan was to remove the Alliance from mainland Kalimdor, clearly he still failed.

and destroyed most of their naval power? in tides of war?

Are you sure about that?

No, it was show if they didn't defeat Garrosh he would have conquered the world and it would eventually fall to the legion, that is a fact, the visions show possible outcomes, all realities

Oh wow, so the psycho would have doomed the world to the Legion, because that's sooo badass and cool.

And Yes, the visions show all potential realities, BUT YOU CAN'T IDENTIFY THE REAL ONE, so again that's not evidence of anything. It just means that, out of all the realities that exist in the megaverse, there is one reality where Garrosh wins.

If you are not biased, you will acknowledge that there is probably, potentially at least one reality where the Alliance wins too, in the megaverse, and so that's not proof of anything.

all the possible futures showed by the old gods are real ones, in a way that all of hey can happen, only one happens anyway, but that is to show this is was a possibility.

And let me guess, the Alliance simply holding out against Garrosh couldn't be a possibility, right?

The Void sees an infinity of potential futures in the megaverse, but let me guess, there is no future in which the Alliance simply holds out...

Because there's no way the Alliance could ever win anything against the cool badass orc, that's just mathematically impossible

[Loveliest]

He 100 percent should. He's just trash Knaak fanfiction like all the other characters in those books.

Oh because the wow novels all have such high standards and amazing characters.
Brox is about better than Eitrigg and "I will abandon my family and everything for a promise to an orc" Tirion. You know what? All chars are just about the same level of trash now that I think about it.