Stop Pugging and Complaining

[Lordofbelbol]

Yes and no. You may have all the burst classes and use perma BL but past a certain level of difficulty if you ignore mechanics sooner or later you will die because there’s a limit on how godly a healer can be.

And timer or not, most people just won’t accept taking 2 hours for a 30 mins dungeon if this becomes “the standard”. Keep in mind that we are talking about people who basically would completely avoid that type of content if the only had a chance to gear up in another way.

What does Using burst classes + BL have to do with mechanics ? they still have to do mechanics

I meant people would reach levels where even unavoidable damage will 1 shot and only way to survive is through defensives. so having a very high burst and surviving those stuff with defensives will be THE only way to do those pulls.

[Dejiko]

Pugging is a wonderfully weird and awful experience.
Getting a group of friends or familiar folks together and going through the content is amazing,
but you can get super lucky and find an awe-inspiring pug group as well.

That said, there are benefits and downsides to both.
I prefer just logging on at whatever hour of the day i choose and play, adhering to a particular schedule is
a no go for me.

This also means i resign myself to chance and fate, sometimes it works out, other times not.
Communities are a great feature for this sort of thing though.

[bullseyed]

seems like you are in a wrong guild then if they dont take you in .

should have changed that guild long ago .

and ifyou refise to do so - you can blame only yourself for bad time you have in game

The other 35 people are apparently incapable of basic adulting skills, like inviting each other to a group.

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There is truth in this I think. A lot of people don't care about the timed aspect of M+ but there is just no alternative really. I would like nothing more than for the timer to be removed, but I do see the purpose of it for the competetive aspect. I treat M+ like normal dungeons, I like dungeons but I don't really care about the timer except for score because of upgrades/achievements. This is why it feels so terrible when people are toxic and rude or leave in dungeons, which are supposed to be about fun and overcoming something challenging together with the group you are in. I will never leave because of wipes, because beating a boss after 30 tries can be fun even in a pug if people stay positive. I have even 4 manned sometimes after someone left.

Maybe there is a solution that could seperate the competitive minded people who get frustrated with more chilled out less experienced people. I think a form of M+ that rewards vault rewards and loot but no score, and has no timer or key depletion would be a nice way to do it. People who don't want to go hard could just take their time and get the rewards without bothering the sweatier m+ pushing people.

Let me guess, you never list your keys as "completion" though, because you love scamming other people?

[chiddie]

What does Using burst classes + BL have to do with mechanics ? they still have to do mechanics

I meant people would reach levels where even unavoidable damage will 1 shot and only way to survive is through defensives. so having a very high burst and surviving those stuff with defensives will be THE only way to do those pulls.

I mean that the timer is only a part of the story.

Many go on with this refrain “without timer people will just BL and nuke every pull even if this will make the run last 2 hours”.

Imho this will hardly be the case:
1. Time is precious for everyone but most of all
2. As I said before BL won’t save you if your idea of m+ing is tank and spank ignoring mechanics (that is what casual solo puggers would like to do in m+). You won’t be able to nuke bosses in the span of 1 BL unless you overgear that M+ level by far (but in that case you wouldn’t be there because gear it provides would be useless).

[Lordofbelbol]

I mean that the timer is only a part of the story.

Many go on with this refrain “without timer people will just BL and nuke every pull even if this will make the run last 2 hours”.

Imho this will hardly be the case:
1. Time is precious for everyone but most of all
2. As I said before BL won’t save you if your idea of m+ing is tank and spank ignoring mechanics (that is what casual solo puggers would like to do in m+). You won’t be able to nuke bosses in the span of 1 BL unless you overgear that M+ level by far (but in that case you wouldn’t be there because gear it provides would be useless).

Why do you keep mentioning this point ? i know BL will not save you if you fail to interput tidal burst in temple fortified weeks,

[Azharok]

I mean that the timer is only a part of the story.

Many go on with this refrain “without timer people will just BL and nuke every pull even if this will make the run last 2 hours”.

Imho this will hardly be the case:
1. Time is precious for everyone but most of all
2. As I said before BL won’t save you if your idea of m+ing is tank and spank ignoring mechanics (that is what casual solo puggers would like to do in m+). You won’t be able to nuke bosses in the span of 1 BL unless you overgear that M+ level by far (but in that case you wouldn’t be there because gear it provides would be useless).

The timer is there to disincentivise degenerate gameplay, no-one here is arguing that it will allow people to finish 30s or whatever key level you can think of. It's to prevent people from spending too much time in keys (read more than a reasonable amount of time). Remember those UBRS/LBRS of old ? You could be in there all day. I don't think anyone implied that you could kill a boss inside of the lust window on higher keys. It is merely a safeguard put in place so that players are better matched to a level of play they can overcome. This is the whole design philosophy of the M+ system. I you are short for time on a 11, maybe a 10 is better suited for you. You can 3 chest a RLP20, maybe you can handles 22s. But if you can't time N key level, you have no business in key level N+1. It's that simple.

[Hotmail]

"Toxicity" only exists in the minds of "toxic" players themselves. Everyone leaves their groups and refuses to carry them, so they must all be "toxic".

It is like that old saying... "If you meet an asshole, you met an asshole. If you always meet assholes, then you're an asshole."

Only toxic players have problems with toxicity in online games.

That depends. MOBAs like DOTA and League of Legends are known toxic cesspools, you literally cannot play 2 pub games without running into people who have serious issues; they are generally rude, psychotic or wrong about a game that they barely understand, yet they insist on telling others what to do. Almost like they're not having any fun at all or can't focus on their own game, which is very weird.

But in WoW? I've only ever seen toxicity from the "gogogo I'm trying to qualify for MDI/AWC!11!1!1" crowd. It's pretty rare, and can easily be avoided.

[Lathspell]

The other 35 people are apparently incapable of basic adulting skills, like inviting each other to a group.

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Let me guess, you never list your keys as "completion" though, because you love scamming other people?

I usually list as standard, but sometimes completion. If I would care a lot about timing I would list as beat timer

[SaucyThighs]

I'm surprised anyone would actually try to form an argument against OP. I suppose unsolicited advice will always trigger someone, but it's an accurate description.

Whether you pug or have a tight-knit group, you are the one constant variable among a swath of randoms. You will always end up with a level of success and social atmosphere based on you overall.

If you have this idealized group of people just like you, sure, your group will succeed every time you play right, and be cool every time you're cool. You'll also have every person mess up for every time you do, and have everyone get upset and point the finger every time you do. You'll never have to carry anyone, ever, but you'll also never be carried (those times you selectively omit from your memory or at least don't realize).

Having randoms means random times when you played well, were cool, and the key still got bricked. It also means breezing through a run even though you were the problem, if only on a pull or two. Matchmaking works, it's simple math. Even matchmaking designed by players handpicking their invites is unavoidable... people can't help but end up stratified by their ability (and social ability) level.

The only difference between randoms and having everyone being like you is consistency. Your results completely even out over any meaningful timespan, and how much fun you're having along the way starts and ends with you anyways.

[crusadernero]

I've seen many suggest being honest about your intention with your key runs. Like "completion" or "trying to push key, learning".

I have done that, but mostly when I queue for pvp(arena). I would often write "low rating, trying to learn/get better" or "chill time, practise". Something along those lines. Most of the times, I get cool people to play with when I do so.

If I just queue up "need heal" or "need dps" I shuffle through alot of people, especially if we lose just 1 game.

[anon5123]

Sun through Thu from 19:00 are raid nights.

You do realize that NOBODY raids 5 nights a week other than sweatlord tryhards that make up <5% of the playerbase, right?

lmao

[Azharok]

You do realize that NOBODY raids 5 nights a week other than sweatlord tryhards that make up <5% of the playerbase, right?

lmao

You do realize he was being sarcastic right ?

[crusadernero]

You do realize that NOBODY raids 5 nights a week other than sweatlord tryhards that make up <5% of the playerbase, right?

lmao

funny thing is that alot of players that raided in the old days actually had 4-5 raid nights a week.

[noctim2]

funny thing is that alot of players that raided in the old days actually had 4-5 raid nights a week.

No. Only people without lives have done that. Just like today. There is actually no difference from today.

[crusadernero]

No. Only people without lives have done that. Just like today. There is actually no difference from today.

Whatever dude. We are talking 20 years back in time. The MMORPG playerbase then and now are two VERY different worlds. I remember many guilds raided at the bare minimum 3 times a week. The standard of what raiding was and how it should be treated was different.

These days its totally something else.

[Grimbold21]

Why do you keep mentioning this point ? i know BL will not save you if you fail to interput tidal burst in temple fortified weeks,

Bit of a random comment, but this reminded that I found out quite recently that you can corner pull/tank the big water elementals in Temple in order to avoid their AoE. Never occurred to me before, probably because a) there was no need for it back in MoP and b) maybe people can't be arsed to in 10s and 11s?

Though b) would be ironic given that in Court of Stars people corner tank that mob that does fel detonation or whatever to avoid the aoe dmg/debuff.

[noctim2]

I was about 19 when WoW was released. In 2005, we were the most advanced raiding guild on our server with just two (!) raid days per week and a few steps into Naxxramas / mostly cleared AQ40. Although we were pretty casual, two days was already considered the upper limit, but anything beyond that schedule was considered super hardcore and not very common.

[bullseyed]

It's not as unlikely as you think. When the season changes you get a key based on the last season. So in S2 you might get a +15 Shadopan Monastery key or something if you timed an 18 the last week of season 1. No one has done that key ever.

I was also talking about doing your own key where you invite the group. How should you prepare for that +15 you never did before? Should you be flamed for inviting people to do it with you and not knowing everything?

There is nothing new on a +15 that wasn't on normal or heroic.

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That depends. MOBAs like DOTA and League of Legends are known toxic cesspools, you literally cannot play 2 pub games without running into people who have serious issues; they are generally rude, psychotic or wrong about a game that they barely understand, yet they insist on telling others what to do. Almost like they're not having any fun at all or can't focus on their own game, which is very weird.

But in WoW? I've only ever seen toxicity from the "gogogo I'm trying to qualify for MDI/AWC!11!1!1" crowd. It's pretty rare, and can easily be avoided.

I am 110% sure you've never come anywhere near an MDI player.

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Could always open up the dungeon journal, provides enough information to navigate the bosses. Tbf I've been playing WoW for so long now that most boss mechanics are self evident to me now. And if they aren't then that's on me for not knowing.

Wait, you're telling me the DRAGON has a BREATH and it does DAMAGE to people who stand in it?!?!?!

This is crazy! No one has ever done that before with a dragon in a game.

Next you're going to tell me it has a tail swipe!

[Lathspell]

There is nothing new on a +15 that wasn't on normal or heroic.

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This is just wrong. First there are mythic only mechanics and second some mechanics just do so little damage on lower difficulties that they might as well not exist at all. You can ignore almost all mechanics on even low mythic and live.

[Alroxas]

What does Using burst classes + BL have to do with mechanics ? they still have to do mechanics

For instance, explosive affix spawns orbs based on the number of mobs in combat. So larger pulls can be more punishing IF orbs have a chance to spawn. But if say before the orbs spawn those adds were killed? No orbs to deal with = no (explosive) mechanics to deal with for that pull.

More DPS can lead to instances where shorter duration of combat = less mechanics to deal with. Or at the very least less repeat mechanics to deal with.

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Bit of a random comment, but this reminded that I found out quite recently that you can corner pull/tank the big water elementals in Temple in order to avoid their AoE. Never occurred to me before, probably because a) there was no need for it back in MoP and b) maybe people can't be arsed to in 10s and 11s?

Though b) would be ironic given that in Court of Stars people corner tank that mob that does fel detonation or whatever to avoid the aoe dmg/debuff.

Well there's also a bit of a difference there as well. The Fel Detonation cast by Enforcers in Court of Stars is a fairly long cast (4s cast) relative to the water elementals' AoE cast (Tainted Ripple which is 1.5s).
Additionally the water elementals in Temple also need to be baited for their other cast (Surging Deluge). It's far too often that players try to prepare for Tainted Ripple only to have the Elemental cast Surging Deluge at the spot where they need to hide.