Last of Us [TV]

[Majestic12]

Why do you think you were supposed to feel anything about them? The represent the reality of the world they are in, that's it. Sam dying sucks because he is a kid but a no point did the the show try to make you feel for Henry. In fact they went out their way for you to not like him. His purpose is to condition the viewer to the amoral nature of the survivors. A lot of people have done shitty stuff to save their own neck or someone close to them, Joel included. Innocent people are few and far between. Hell, Henry was even shot at Joel and allow Ellie to potentially get bit in the end because of his blinders. Good people do bad things, it sucks, redemption arcs and good endings are not promised, but you have to keep going.

There's a lot of subtext going on too.

I agree, I think that Henry just represents a gruesome reality. Yes was a collaborator. Yes, he helped the feds, and no, he wasn't alone by any means.
There are no clear good guys around. All the good guys are basically dead or missing.

[Darththeo]

That's the crux of the issue though.

We're told this through dialogue. We're expected to believe it. I get it. On a surface level, that's enough. But to me (and others) it just seems like her character lacked the necessary development to be given the role she possessed. I'm not asking for an entire episode but I think an extra 10-15 minute flashback showing her brother's role in the resistance and Henry's betrayal (instead of Henry just...saying it) would've done wonders for her character arc. As it is, it's fine. But for a show that has shown it's capable of excellence, it does feel a bit one-dimensional.

Yeah, I kind of wished there was more flashbacks. You don't even need to remove the dialogue. But, see Henry's betrayal when he is talking to Joel could have made it better. Showing Kathleen and her brother in the room when she is telling the story also works.

What they did worked, but it could have been better.

[Eapoe]

Thought the latest episode was great. It did a good job of showing that many people aren’t just good or bad, and that people can do terrible things for a good cause. It’s pretty good foreshadowing.
I do agree that I would have liked more backstory with some of the people. Being shown the difference between the resistance leaders would have been nice. Unfortunately, it probably would have required almost 30+ minutes of air time to establish it well. It would have had to show why one was considered to be a great person and the leader, yet the other was the one who actually got things done and what she did behind the scenes to not overshadow him and have everyone’s loyalty. Or if it was just that she picked up the reins after and she just had the determination and ideas to succeed.

[Koriani]

I agree with what folks are saying here.

Each time I saw Kathleen being a crazy fascist, you can see her militia standing around looking scared of her, or concerned about her orders.

WHY THE HELL DO THEY LISTEN TO HER!?!?!?!?!

I get that her brother was the leader of the resistance, and she likely picked up the torch when he was taken away and executed. But once they saw that she was no different than Fedra, why didn't they revolt against her? Large muscular men with rifles and tactical gear, vs some dumpy chick. It makes no sense at all.

I did just want to point out - the show did, at least, try to give some sort of "connection logic" as to why these Forces (show hints its more than a dozen people) follow her at all.

In a scene in episode 5, her and her 2nd in command talking - she's talking about how wonderful and amazing her brother is and how "And I'm not Him." The guy gives the explanation - to her - and to everyone watching - (paraphrasing here as I don't remember the exact line) "Your brother was awesome. But you overthrew FEDRA."

That's how she got them. Regardless that her brother was seen as the "Chosen One" who had led the push against FEDRA for two decades, it isn't until he's DEAD that they WIN over FEDRA. And the winning Forces clearly feel that's directly because of whatever Kathleeen actually said/did that actually accomplished the job.

That won their loyalty, so they continue to follow orders. Because after 20 years under her brother, they didn't win, until she did Something Different.

~~
As for why anyone follows anyone, or doesn't revolt, even when all evidence points conclusions elsewhere - there's volumes of psychological experimentation, theories, and mounds of evidence (from war/solider groups/etc.) to try to help you understand. And we still don't know why people give up independent thought under commands to do things that most of them would never do otherwise. Its just an odd human psychological issue. This isn't a show problem, this is just how humanity works. And it doesn't always make sense (hell, most of the time it doesn't make sense).
~~

I, for one, am glad we didn't get all the backstory or justification for everything. We don't need it, at all. We're meant to more feel and understand the world as it unfolds to Joel and Ellie, as they come upon it. To Joel and Ellie - the only thing that matters - is the Kathleen and the KC forces as they meet with them *in the present*. They don't care (so it doesn't matter to us or the story) what or how Kathleen and her forces came to power, they just need to get the hell away from the city. Henry gives them that 'path of least resistance', so they follow it.

We are given more information, at all, because its a tv show and that makes it more interesting for us, to have some sort of context outside of "Random Bad Guy Group B" - but ultimately, its irrelevant what, or how, or who, Kathleen use to be and how she got here. It doesn't matter why the troops follow her, it only matters that *at this time* they do - because Joel and Ellie aren't sticking around for half a season to take over KC, or try to exploit a weakness in her forces as they start to rebel from the overt cruelty (or whatever), they're just trying to get away - ASAP. Never meant to be here - GTFO!

Which is why I think its nice that the zombies, and NOT Henry or Joel, take out the 'bad guys' in KC and (to me anyway, imply) reset the system. This isn't a story where our 'heroes' are traveling around to various places, solving people's problems before they leave. They're simply trying to GTFO and away from all humans and infected (cuz of course) to get where they want to be. So the fact that Kathleen Forces get taken out by zombies the FEDRA 'thought' they got rid of years ago and just 'never went back and checked' is the better conclusion for their violent-story, rather than Joel or Ellie getting off a head-shot that takes her out and "saves the day" (so to speak). (As much as I WISH Joel did just shoot the woman from the window while she talked. TV/Movies don't work that way =D).

And yeah, much faster/better than Walking Dead ever did - this show is certainly showing the "Whether your a Hero or Villian depends on where you're standing" morality lesson. "Bad guy" or "good guy" is all relative when you're doing whatever you think you need to do, as an individual, to survive. The fact that people debate whether Henry (or Kathleen) is a "bad guy" is proof concept of the very lesson they're demonstrating.

One can be both. Just depends on where you're standing.

[Ihavewaffles]

what's this on steam, coming out in march? I thought the first game was a few years old?? Was never released on pc befores? Or is this a remake/upgrade thingy??

[Orange Joe]

what's this on steam, coming out in march? I thought the first game was a few years old?? Was never released on pc befores? Or is this a remake/upgrade thingy??

it was remade/remastered or whatever.

[Darththeo]

what's this on steam, coming out in march? I thought the first game was a few years old?? Was never released on pc befores? Or is this a remake/upgrade thingy??

It is an upgraded version of a 2013 playstation exclusive. Sony has relatively recently began releasing their games to PC, they kept their exclusives for a long time.

[Relapses]

Another pretty good episode. It represents a bit of a lull in the action but mostly hits all of the story beats from the game. Pedro's delivery of the infamous "I sure as hell ain't your father," line was solid. Cinematography was excellent and the atmosphere was incredibly well captured, though the final scene in Colorado felt maybe a bit rushed. Not a huge complaint, still very fun to watch and I'm looking forward to the Left Behind episode next week.

[Fencers]

Great acting.

The reaction Bella Ramsey had when finding out about Sarah was masterful. That's definitely going in her book above the line.

[Freese]

Some will say the campus scene was rushed. In the game, you fight infected, explore the campus, and kill large amounts of raiders. In other words, if you take out the gameplay elements, there’s not much else they need to discover in the campus. The map they found, though, was good foreshadowing.

They are clearly making Joel weaker in the show than in the game, which makes sense because if Joel were weak in the game, the combat would be frustrating from a mechanics perspective probably. His physical weaknesses help to humanize him more. He’s been through a lot of physical and emotional stress. That takes a toll on the body into older age!

[Khain]

Great acting and great episode, but did they really had to race change Maria to black in a story that is already giga woke.

[xmirrors]

Definitely felt rushed, at least in comparison to the game, but it was a solid episode. The diary scene with Ellie hit right.

[Khain]

Definitely felt rushed, at least in comparison to the game, but it was a solid episode. The diary scene with Ellie hit right.

Thinking about it the Colorado part definitely felt rushed.

[Arlette]

Great acting and great episode, but did they really had to race change Maria to black in a story that is already giga woke.

A person being black isn't "woke" lol, goddamn.

Her race was just SUCH an important part of that character though, you're so right.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another great episode, I was really looking forward to the iconic diary scene and Pedro and Bella nailed it.

[Khain]

A person being black isn't "woke" lol

It's weird cuz it never happens the other way around. There's like a quota for how many white folks can be in a show/movie now days.

Lets make a bet who isn't going to be white next season

Abby
Owen
Pregnant doctor

I vote for Owen.

[Arlette]

It's weird cuz it never happens the other way around. There's like a quota for how many white folks can be in a show/movie now days.

Lets make a bet who isn't going to be white next season

Abby
Owen
Pregnant doctor

I vote for Owen.

You sure seem really focused on races of fictional characters whose character has nothing to do with race whatsoever.

[Fencers]

Great acting and great episode, but did they really had to race change Maria to black in a story that is already giga woke.

What was important about Maria's ethnicity in the game that one could not select an actor good for the show regardless of ethnicity?

"Woke" is the wrong expression here. That seems a low class use of language on your part.

[Khain]

You sure seem really focused on races of fictional characters whose character has nothing to do with race whatsoever.

Forced racist agenda that is being shoved everywhere in entertainment for the last 3 years or so, how can one not notice?

[Arlette]

Forced racist agenda that is being shoved everywhere in entertainment for the last 3 years or so, how can one not notice?

Oh yes the white video game side character being played by a black actor really is a forced racist agenda.

Do you really not see what a self-report you're doing right now? lol

[Fencers]

There's like a quota for how many white folks can be in a show/movie now days.

For US products; 61% Caucasian, 14% African-American/Black, 19% Hispanic, 6% Other is ideal ethnic representation.

Media products have to be positioned to represent the consuming public and those market demographics.

Anything outside of that is not mainstream media. it's niche.

The Last of Us as produced by Sony and HBO for US television is designed to be mainstream media.