Hogwart's Legacy

[Edge-]

I know that you didn't pay enough attention after all.

I mean...

The main mission is very clear about it. You don't just take away pain, but more than that, and it's also super dangerous and shit since it's not well understood how the magic works. Not to mention its corrupting influence with Isadorah being a big risk.

[Skizzit]

Those are all definitely completable without the broom, I did a handful specifically on foot to check. It's just so much easier to whip out the broom and get them usually. They do properly block off some things that require you to "solve" the puzzle to get inside a building or something so it's not like they couldn't.

IMO it's actually commendable. They let you continue doing things the "proper" way if you want, but also let some of the tools you unlock make things a lot easier than they otherwise would be as long as you engage your brain.

Yeah, I am all for multiple solutions just in this case it did lead to me occasionally being pulled outa the game and not thinking about how to solve a puzzle, but trying to figure out what the game dev is expecting from me.

It did lead to a moment I felt like a total idiot though. There was one of the small villages that had a big barn building with a loft. I could see there was a chest in the loft and there was an open window as well as a raised porch around the back and I spent maybe 10 min. flying around in circles trying to fly in the window before finally realizing there was a ladder just inside the giant barn door. Felt very dumb for that one.

[Edge-]

It did lead to a moment I felt like a total idiot though. There was one of the small villages that had a big barn building with a loft. I could see there was a chest in the loft and there was an open window as well as a raised porch around the back and I spent maybe 10 min. flying around in circles trying to fly in the window before finally realizing there was a ladder just inside the giant barn door. Felt very dumb for that one.

I know the exact building you're talking about and I did the same thing. Not for quite as long, but my first thought was to fly through that window as well.

[Syegfryed]

I mean...

The main mission is very clear about it. You don't just take away pain, but more than that, and it's also super dangerous and shit since it's not well understood how the magic works. Not to mention its corrupting influence with Isadorah being a big risk.

i know its dangerous, but its not impossible, she just used on another of the guardians and she was fine, also in other students, there is a degree how much you can do it, this is something you should have the choice to do, since in the end you literally can chose to take the power for yourself anyway

Big risk, but it is something that would be worthy doing imo, especially to fix some bs curse that should not be a thing in the first place

[Edge-]

i know its dangerous, but its not impossible, she just used on another of the guardians and she was fine, also in other students, there is a degree how much you can do it, this is something you should have the choice to do, since in the end you literally can chose to take the power for yourself anyway

Big risk, but it is something that would be worthy doing imo, especially to fix some bs curse that should not be a thing in the first place

I don't think we fully know what happened with the other Keeper, and honestly with them being a [I]Keeper[/I] they're a bad point of comparison for everyone else and how they might be effected. They showed the aftermath of what happened with her father essentially turning into an empty husk, which like...I'm sure that if Sebastian had seen that and was given the option to risk his sister turning into a husk but not feeling pain that he would say no since that would functionally be killing his sister anyways.

To that point, the other Keepers specifically [I]fucking killed her[/I] because she was using it on students and others without their actual consent and without fully understanding it, and was growing far too dangerous.

I'll have to see how the "bad end" goes, and that's the only instance in which I could see your character potentially going through with it, but they'd have to make some fairly major branching endings to the story. That's all presuming you could even figure out how to do it, as I don't believe the memories from Isadorah explain it nor are there any other directions on how to replicate exactly what she did.

I won't pretend the whole storyline is good (I still have no clue why some curses don't really fuckin matter, some are truly deadly, and some can't be reversed but whatever), but it seemed that the whole point of it wasn't about his sister and curing her. It was Sebastians journey on his obsession with curing his sister and how far he'd go to do it, and how those around him would react.

[formerShandalay]

My impression was that they treated the dark versions of each magic like a kind of drug. Both Isadora and Sebastian behave drugged and like addicts once they really start using the dark versions. The blue version of the ancient magic didn't seem to have this strange effect of euphoria on Isadora when she used it to make 'pretty pillars' (and not on Rackham either), only the red version. Her journal makes it sound like she is looking for excuses to use it. I'm not sure about the 'glitch' in her memory within the pensieve, might be a glitch in the game, but it occurs at the point just before her father thanks her. Seems like she was hiding something from the person she was leaving the pensieve for (the player).

In Sebastian's case it's more like a drug that only creates bad trips, no euphoria, but excuses, reasons to continue, loss of his sense of self, sense of reality and so on. But in his case it's only normal dark magic, I guess if that was as euphoria inducing as the other one, it would be an even bigger problem in the normal wizarding community ^^

[Syegfryed]

I don't think we fully know what happened with the other Keeper, and honestly with them being a [I]Keeper[/I] they're a bad point of comparison for everyone else and how they might be effected. They showed the aftermath of what happened with her father essentially turning into an empty husk, which like...I'm sure that if Sebastian had seen that and was given the option to risk his sister turning into a husk but not feeling pain that he would say no since that would functionally be killing his sister anyways.

To that point, the other Keepers specifically [I]fucking killed her[/I] because she was using it on students and others without their actual consent and without fully understanding it, and was growing far too dangerous.

I'll have to see how the "bad end" goes, and that's the only instance in which I could see your character potentially going through with it, but they'd have to make some fairly major branching endings to the story. That's all presuming you could even figure out how to do it, as I don't believe the memories from Isadorah explain it nor are there any other directions on how to replicate exactly what she did.

I won't pretend the whole storyline is good (I still have no clue why some curses don't really fuckin matter, some are truly deadly, and some can't be reversed but whatever), but it seemed that the whole point of it wasn't about his sister and curing her. It was Sebastians journey on his obsession with curing his sister and how far he'd go to do it, and how those around him would react.

The game made clear that removing pain and emotions are like drugs, the more you do the more you are drunk in power/corrupted and the more the person you do lost their soul, her father was like that because she didn't stop, she want to remove all the pain, and it left him in that state.

doing something small for his sister, at least a token for everything that went down would be the route here, especially since you can chose to not do it - use the power - or not

[Hitei]

The game made clear that removing pain and emotions are like drugs, the more you do the more you are drunk in power/corrupted and the more the person you do lost their soul, her father was like that because she didn't stop, she want to remove all the pain, and it left him in that state.

doing something small for his sister, at least a token for everything that went down would be the route here, especially since you can chose to not do it - use the power - or not

No, her father was like that because the process fundamentally does not work. You (and Percival) can see when she first removes the pain that all sorts of shit just begins leaking out of her father and he's immediately coated in traces of the corrupted magic. She had no idea what the fuck she was doing, it's a wildly unstable process that she knew nothing about, and in case you didn't notice: it produces an extremely dangerous byproduct even when it's just being used to pull negative emotions.

The fact that Isidora--a fully-trained [U]defense against the dark arts[/U] professor at hogwarts, who had been taught [B]everything[/B] about how to use the ancient magic by Rackham, to the point of being able to freely craft entire structures the same way he could and spent years experimenting and theorizing how to use the magic to stop emotional pain--was able to (very badly) strip one specific instance of negative emotion she knew the exact root cause of... does not indicate anything about being able to remove the lingering effects of a curse, especially not by a student who only knows how to do fairly basic things with the ancient magic, has extremely limited knowledge of magic in general, and is dealing with a case where they don't even know what spell the effects are from or if it's even still a spell that is harming her and not lasting physical or neural damage beyond the period's understanding.

This is like watching a PhD holding, practiced surgeon barely manage to do a successful surgery; and then the next day when someone nearby goes "I have a stomachache" you going "OH I CAN FIX THAT!" and pulling out a scalpel. The only way that situation ends is with you maiming or killing a sick person long before you even figure out what's actually wrong.

[Syegfryed]

No, her father was like that because the process fundamentally does not work.

It [I]did[/I] work,

You (and Percival) can see when she first removes the pain that all sorts of shit just begins leaking out of her father and he's immediately coated in traces of the corrupted magic. She had no idea what the fuck she was doing, it's a wildly unstable process that she knew nothing about, and in case you didn't notice: it produces an extremely dangerous byproduct even when it's just being used to pull negative emotions.

It leaks because she can't proper hold it, when she removes the pain from her father - the one from her brother dying - she try to put in a jar, and obvious will leak out, thats why she asked the goblins to do something that can hold it and not leak it.

That does not mena however that you cannot do it, if you wish so, because you literally can choose to unleash that power and take as your own like she did

The fact that Isidora--a fully-trained [U]defense against the dark arts[/U] professor at hogwarts, who had been taught [B]everything[/B] about how to use the ancient magic by Rackham, to the point of being able to freely craft entire structures the same way he could and spent years experimenting and theorizing how to use the magic to stop emotional pain--was able to (very badly) strip one specific instance of negative emotion she knew the exact root cause of... does not indicate anything about being able to remove the lingering effects of a curse, especially not by a student who only knows how to do fairly basic things with the ancient magic, has extremely limited knowledge of magic in general, and is dealing with a case where they don't even know what spell the effects are from or if it's even still a spell that is harming her and not lasting physical or neural damage beyond the period's understanding.

That is rly a bad take in this universe, since you learn the three unforgivable curses, that should be hard at easy, without any problems, and are able to do all the crazy magic shit with ancient magic like you are a pro, after seeing once, so removing a lingering curse from someone body, would not be world breaking, at all, the world breaking thing is they not finding a cure yet

[Very Tired]

Seeing how similar Isadora and Sebastian's stories are it's kinda perplexing how it wasn't written to intersect some more. Like "This ancient magic stuff can be used to remove pain? My sister is in a lot of pain! Think you can try it on her?... No? Not even going to mention this convivence? Alright, come help me with the evil dark ritual then."

[Katchii]

It [I]did[/I] work,

No, it didn't, not the way you're saying it did.

It leaks because she can't proper hold it, when she removes the pain from her father - the one from her brother dying - she try to put in a jar, and obvious will leak out, thats why she asked the goblins to do something that can hold it and not leak it.

That does not mena however that you cannot do it, if you wish so, because you literally can choose to unleash that power and take as your own like she did

That's not what they're referring to. They're talking about the stuff that is leaking from her father afterward, both the player character and Rackham comment on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Seeing how similar Isadora and Sebastian's stories are it's kinda perplexing how it wasn't written to intersect some more. Like "This ancient magic stuff can be used to remove pain? My sister is in a lot of pain! Think you can try it on her?... No? Not even going to mention this convivence? Alright, come help me with the evil dark ritual then."

He does actually comment on this, briefly. I don't remember exactly how the conversation goes, but he DOES bring it up.

[Very Tired]

He does actually comment on this, briefly. I don't remember exactly how the conversation goes, but he DOES bring it up.

Ahh, you're right, I was remembering how it played out wrong.

He tells us to ask the Keepers about it but I can't remember if our character actually does. Still seems like an avenue he should have pursued more instead of the ritual though.

[Edge-]

The game made clear that removing pain and emotions are like drugs, the more you do the more you are drunk in power/corrupted and the more the person you do lost their soul, her father was like that because she didn't stop, she want to remove all the pain, and it left him in that state.

doing something small for his sister, at least a token for everything that went down would be the route here, especially since you can chose to not do it - use the power - or not

I...didn't really get that at all.

The drug angle was definitely implied given how she let it control her, but they never showed her taking any more from her father. Just that single time. With longer term consequences beyond him immediately feeling grateful.

So in addition to having no idea [I]how[/I] she did it as the memories from the Keepers don't explain and nor does hers (just that it can be done), you have the huge risk of the longterm effects on the subject + how it could impact you.

The process worked. But it worked so well it drained the emotion out of people altogether and left them hallow husks. Hardly the first time

[Syegfryed]

No, it didn't, not the way you're saying it did.

It did, her father literally could speak again and was better after it.

That's not what they're referring to. They're talking about the stuff that is leaking from her father afterward, both the player character and Rackham comment on it.

And that is because she was not able to contain it, if you are saying it keep on leaking forever thats your headcanon

- - - Updated - - -

I...didn't really get that at all.

The drug angle was definitely implied given how she let it control her, but they never showed her taking any more from her father. Just that single time. With longer term consequences beyond him immediately feeling grateful.

So in addition to having no idea [I]how[/I] she did it as the memories from the Keepers don't explain and nor does hers (just that it can be done), you have the huge risk of the longterm effects on the subject + how it could impact you.

The process worked. But it worked so well it drained the emotion out of people altogether and left them hallow husks. Hardly the first time

He saw what she did and after getting the power to yourself later, it should be a no-brainer to emulate it, its not like he was going to suck all bad feelings from all people, just extracting the lingering curse from her

They became hallow husks because she got drug addicted to it, and never stopped sucking people up

[Edge-]

He saw what she did and after getting the power to yourself later, it should be a no-brainer to emulate it, its not like he was going to suck all bad feelings from all people, just extracting the lingering curse from her

They became hallow husks because she got drug addicted to it, and never stopped sucking people up

He did...

But he's also an impulsive idiot where most of his narrative is around how him acting impulsively results in some truly terrible decisions like killing his uncle. Literally every other spell you learn in the game has to be taught to you by a professor or Sebastian, so I'm not sure how you'd be able to learn it without a teacher or anything. Like, how do you know how to suck shit out? How do you know [I]what[/I] to suck out? How do you know how [I]much[/I] to suck out?

Do they explicitly confirm that last bit anywhere in the story? It just showed the consequence of what happened to her father, I don't recall them showing her repeatedly sucking out his soul or whatever.

[formerShandalay]

He did...

But he's also an impulsive idiot where most of his narrative is around how him acting impulsively results in some truly terrible decisions like killing his uncle. Literally every other spell you learn in the game has to be taught to you by a professor or Sebastian, so I'm not sure how you'd be able to learn it without a teacher or anything. Like, how do you know how to suck shit out? How do you know [I]what[/I] to suck out? How do you know how [I]much[/I] to suck out?

Do they explicitly confirm that last bit anywhere in the story? It just showed the consequence of what happened to her father, I don't recall them showing her repeatedly sucking out his soul or whatever.

All of the Ancient Magic you're casting is self-taught, no one can teach you, because no one can access it like you. I agree that it's probably a bad idea to just do what Isadora did and take the pain away, but I would have liked if they at least hinted at you trying to find out what you can do with your own ancient magic (not even the stuff from the containers, just the one you are accessing anyway). You use it to fight, you see the others build stuff, cause rain and so on, maybe you could start trying to invigorate Anne for starters, like a careful long-term therapy until you can figure out something to actually help her. Would have been a nice thing to show at least the beginning of in a small cutscene or something.

And we do see that taking out pain doesn't immediately turn people into zombies like the father, because Niamh is fine after Isadora takes her pain.

[Edge-]

All of the Ancient Magic you're casting is self-taught, no one can teach you, because no one can access it like you. I agree that it's probably a bad idea to just do what Isadora did and take the pain away, but I would have liked if they at least hinted at you trying to find out what you can do with your own ancient magic (not even the stuff from the containers, just the one you are accessing anyway). You use it to fight, you see the others build stuff, cause rain and so on, maybe you could start trying to invigorate Anne for starters, like a careful long-term therapy until you can figure out something to actually help her. Would have been a nice thing to show at least the beginning of in a small cutscene or something.

And we do see that taking out pain doesn't immediately turn people into zombies like the father, because Niamh is fine after Isadora takes her pain.

But you don't even really know how you're doing a lot of that stuff, yeah? Like, you're learning on the fly too and most of what you've done is fairly "simple" in comparison.

I agree, there are tons of ways to better resolve the storyline here but at the end of the day I don't think Anne was ever the focus. It's not "her" story, she's just the "problem" that Sebastian is trying to resolve in his story. So it's less about us and what we can do and more about Sebastian and his journey that we're there for as his friend. Which is why I'm less annoyed by the monumentally dumb shit he does in service of that arc when like, there are a million better ways of handling this shit if the point was to actually cure/treat Anne.

Though Niamh isn't a good point of comparison for Isadorah's father. Niamh is a Keeper who can use ancient magic so it would make sense that the spell may have different results on them.

[Syegfryed]

He did...

But he's also an impulsive idiot where most of his narrative is around how him acting impulsively results in some truly terrible decisions like killing his uncle. Literally every other spell you learn in the game has to be taught to you by a professor or Sebastian, so I'm not sure how you'd be able to learn it without a teacher or anything. Like, how do you know how to suck shit out? How do you know [I]what[/I] to suck out? How do you know how [I]much[/I] to suck out?

Do they explicitly confirm that last bit anywhere in the story? It just showed the consequence of what happened to her father, I don't recall them showing her repeatedly sucking out his soul or whatever.

i meant "he" as the MC, my bad.

it is is implicit yes, that she didn't stop, she wanted to remove all the pain

[formerShandalay]

But you don't even really know how you're doing a lot of that stuff, yeah? Like, you're learning on the fly too and most of what you've done is fairly "simple" in comparison.

I agree, there are tons of ways to better resolve the storyline here but at the end of the day I don't think Anne was ever the focus. It's not "her" story, she's just the "problem" that Sebastian is trying to resolve in his story. So it's less about us and what we can do and more about Sebastian and his journey that we're there for as his friend. Which is why I'm less annoyed by the monumentally dumb shit he does in service of that arc when like, there are a million better ways of handling this shit if the point was to actually cure/treat Anne.

Though Niamh isn't a good point of comparison for Isadorah's father. Niamh is a Keeper who can use ancient magic so it would make sense that the spell may have different results on them.

I agree that Anne just wasn't the actual topic of the story. My take was it was the parallels between Sebastian and Isadora and if you'd decide to become the next 'I can heal the world'-guy or live with the knowledge that you can't fix everything, or at least not fix everything as quickly as you'd like. (And I think something like that was perfectly shown with Sharp. Fixing stuff takes time and meticulous study of every possible angle. And even then there's no guarantee.) It just left me feeling kind of bad that my character wants to help Anne or at least says so several times and then just... does nothing at all.

And Niamh being able to wield Ancient Magic is kind of what I meant with seeing if you could just use the Ancient Magic to somewhat strengthen Anne. Of the Keepers only Percival can actually see the Ancient Magic, yet they all wield it. If Niamh is really that much more resilient then because of that, this might be an angle too.
Although from what we actually see, there's no difference between what Isadora does to her father and what she does to Niamh. When San Bakar sees the father in his 'zombie'-state, he is surprised, even though he saw the father while being 'healed' and surely would have noticed him turning into a 'zombie' had that happened at that point. He then goes straight to Perceval and says that Isadora 'hasn't stopped'. Bakar says that first and only then learns about her using it on students, so he can't mean the students by 'hasn't stopped'.

So I guess what I'd like is some content with a deeper dive into Ancient Magic and some more plotlines with the NPCs, specifically Anne, Ominis and Natty. If a character let Sebastian stay, then with him too

[Mehrunes]

They mentioned the theme park so I wonder, is that how it is set up there? With the train leading into Hogsmeade? Maybe they just assumed that was canon.

I mean, the train is canon. The Hogwarts Express ends its run near Hogsmeade. It's just not how students get from the castle to Hogsmeade, it's how they get to Hogwarts itself from King's Cross. And the station is there in the game, just a bit south-east from the town.