Stop Pugging and Complaining

[epigramx]

From the person you were replying to...

But since you don't read what people write, and reply with small quotes taken out of context I guess I'd have a hard time understanding too.

it's irrelevant what rankings you have or what rankings others have.
talk with arguments, and not with the authority fallacy.

[Azharok]

it's irrelevant what rankings you have or what rankings others have.
talk with arguments, and not with the authority fallacy.

You litteraly said and I quote "That's cause you only do easy stuff." when responding to someone who pugs and is a title holder for Shadowlands S3 when his claim is that he rarely encounters toxicity when pugging.

It is not irrelevant, it is precisely relevant. Since people with different levels of experience with regards to the content they complete are testifying to their personnal experience of encountering low levels of toxicity, or at least not any significant level of toxicity.

And tossing away his response by saying "it's easy" is outright dumb.

I don't even know why I bother responding to you. All you do is create thread with idiotic takes, plug your ears when someone offer some form of counter-argument, and then use big words to try and confuse people.

[epigramx]

All you do is create thread with idiotic takes

I'm not the OP buddy. It seems you are on a witch-hunt, and you went off topic.

[Mardux]

I disagree, I think people could stand to chill out and let others enjoy things, even if it's not something you yourself can relate to. Not being social with others is just as a valid choice.

I disagree. I think people shouldn't have to make themselves miserable just so you can enjoy something.

[Echeyakee]

I disagree. I think people shouldn't have to make themselves miserable just so you can enjoy something.

I also disagree. *Some tangentially related statement to pad it out*

[janeSmith]

Honestly, the title says it all. WoW is a social game, stop playing with randoms and then complaining about random things.

Form a guild or a community, invite people who are cool and are good, team with them again. Rinse repeat. It is not hard people.

If a dungeon run goes well and you get on with someone, try to get them as a contact and team with them again!

You shouldn’t treat the people in your group as a throwaway commodity, and then complain you don’t know anyone to team with, and that randoms suck - it’s just stupid.

You can do it people, you can be social and make friends and have fun in this game!

WoW has failed so much when people say: stop playing with RANDOMS!

How did WoW get to the point where playing only with people in your guild or friends is the only way how to play correctly? And randoms are eeeeevil!!!!11
What is that for a kind of BS game?

In other MMOs you don't have this problem. You even get better rewards if you play with new players.

At some point in history WoW went the wrong path.

[Accendor]

Honestly, the title says it all. WoW is a social game, stop playing with randoms and then complaining about random things.

Form a guild or a community, invite people who are cool and are good, team with them again. Rinse repeat. It is not hard people.

If a dungeon run goes well and you get on with someone, try to get them as a contact and team with them again!

You shouldn’t treat the people in your group as a throwaway commodity, and then complain you don’t know anyone to team with, and that randoms suck - it’s just stupid.

You can do it people, you can be social and make friends and have fun in this game!

The game has moved away from that. M+ is not intended to be social, you are not able to socialize during a run.
It works the other way around: join a guild and see if you get along with the people. If not, switch.

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WoW has failed so much when people say: stop playing with RANDOMS!

How did WoW get to the point where playing only with people in your guild or friends is the only way how to play correctly? And randoms are eeeeevil!!!!11
What is that for a kind of BS game?

In other MMOs you don't have this problem. You even get better rewards if you play with new players.

At some point in history WoW went the wrong path.

It was when everyone became replacement. Name change, boosting, server transfer and sharding are the culprits here.

[potis]

WoW has failed so much when people say: stop playing with RANDOMS!

How did WoW get to the point where playing only with people in your guild or friends is the only way how to play correctly? And randoms are eeeeevil!!!!11
What is that for a kind of BS game?

In other MMOs you don't have this problem. You even get better rewards if you play with new players.

At some point in history WoW went the wrong path.

What a stupid take.

The only wrong path if took, is allowing people to catch up too quickly.

So now you believe the game was changed, despite always being the same.

You were segregated back then also, you just didnt know it.

[janeSmith]

What a stupid take.

The only wrong path if took, is allowing people to catch up too quickly.

So now you believe the game was changed, despite always being the same.

You were segregated back then also, you just didnt know it.

I do believe the social aspect of the game changed. Because I played from vanilla classic up to shadowlands and I play other MMOs.
And I see the difference.

[Lolites]

That's cause you only do easy stuff.

actualy, after years (since 2005) of playing, on different levels of difficulty due to personal issues, from mythic raiding to just lfr, id say from the little toxicity i met most was in easier content, roughly normal raid (and equal), bcs there is a lot of people whose skill is barely sufficient for it, but they feel like they should be in much higher content just bcs of pure ego...

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"form a guild or community, invite people who are cool and are good".

People nowadays are barely capable of saying "hello" anymore in WoW. The social aspect of the community is equal to that of a slice of sandwich.

Trying to get someone to help you, with the outlook of you being able to help back, is close to zero.

After playing from vanilla up to shadowlands, I preferred to ditch m+, and just did lfr and some solo stuff - so I don't have to deal with most of the people anymore. Why? Because it just was not worth it anymore.

sounds like you just want to be anit-social...
guilds im in acros my chars are quite lively with conversation, be it wow related or other...

[Grimbold21]

WoW has failed so much when people say: stop playing with RANDOMS!

How did WoW get to the point where playing only with people in your guild or friends is the only way how to play correctly? And randoms are eeeeevil!!!!11
What is that for a kind of BS game?

In other MMOs you don't have this problem. You even get better rewards if you play with new players.

At some point in history WoW went the wrong path.

I wouldn't say that's the case, but rather the current tools - and the content itself - that people do content with other random players with don't encourage any meaningful interaction, whether you're doing an m0 or a m15. It's all quite in and out, hello and goodbye.

Playing with guild or friends isn't the "correct" way, it's the way to ensure a secure outcome, and we'd all be dishonest with each other if we denied this has been the case since 2004.

[Lolites]

It is not irrelevant

it doesnt confirm HIS biased opinion so ofc its irrelevant to him...

[potis]

I do believe the social aspect of the game changed. Because I played from vanilla classic up to shadowlands and I play other MMOs.
And I see the difference.

The game was always meant to be played with other people long term. Whether you found them online, or already had them.

Every content added is based on that, its literally a raiding simulator with M+ added cause you cant raid 7/7 and it converted into its own activity, but no..Little Johnny on mmo-champion that needs 2 months to do M0s, knows better.

Either way, this discussion gets nowhere.

Pugging higher content is for good players, most of you guys are not good players, stop pugging.

Pugging the shit content is also the same, they are all so stupidly braindead easy that the fact i need to waste a lot of time to something so braindead and irrelevant because of someone else simply makes me grow resentment, not social aspect.

Why the fuck would i care to connect with someone that is so hopeless in this activity, like World of Warcraft, that the braindead content are a struggle? We have nothing in common even by that.

Its the same as my previous job..Why would i wanna connect with you after work..You literally make my life harder cause i have to get involved in your shit cause you are slow/bad/dangerous to be left along to deal with things.

WoW has social aspects, the problems is as described above..Why would someone thats used to a completely different lifestyle, lets call it, give a fuck about others that simply hinder that lifestyle?

[janeSmith]

actualy, after years (since 2005) of playing, on different levels of difficulty due to personal issues, from mythic raiding to just lfr, id say from the little toxicity i met most was in easier content, roughly normal raid (and equal), bcs there is a lot of people whose skill is barely sufficient for it, but they feel like they should be in much higher content just bcs of pure ego...

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sounds like you just want to be anit-social...
guilds im in acros my chars are quite lively with conversation, be it wow related or other...

If I just wanted to be anti-social, then why am I totally social in a different MMO with being an officer, organising events, helping other players with old content, mount farming, or gearing up, handing out crafted stuff.. ?

Guilds I have met so far - about 12 - and all the people in random content in WoW were anti social and not lively with conversations. I even tried to hook up with people in dungeons, world content, dungeons, ... helping others .. and the response was a silent void. That was my experience with WoW.

[Peacemoon]

WoW has failed so much when people say: stop playing with RANDOMS!

How did WoW get to the point where playing only with people in your guild or friends is the only way how to play correctly? And randoms are eeeeevil!!!!11
What is that for a kind of BS game?

In other MMOs you don't have this problem. You even get better rewards if you play with new players.

At some point in history WoW went the wrong path.

Because content got harder. When we played back in classic there was only one type of dungeon. In TBC there became two types. Later one there became three types.

Now dungeons can scale infinitely and the only restriction is player skill and gear levels.

So you can still play with randoms for normal, heroic, mythic and most of M+ ( I have pugged high keys with great success also), but the higher you get the more reliant you are on the others in your group, as even one person not being good can result in a failed key.

So in these instances, if you want to ensure you have a good run with friendly people, you have to *run with people you know*.

Running with random people all the time and complaining that occasionally you get paired with people who are unfriendly or don’t want to commit to a bad key, is absolutely pointless.

If you want to enforce an etiquette to your keys you better be prepared to make friends and a social circle where that is agreed.

[epigramx]

from the little toxicity i met most was in easier content, roughly normal raid (and equal), bcs there is a lot of people whose skill is barely sufficient

I know what you mean, but that's mainly short-lived immaturity that diffuses fast by mainly kicking out the transgressor and easily replacing them.

The issue with high difficulties *in combination with pugging* is because it's hard to replace people: you're easily stuck with their toxicity.

[erifwodahs]

I wasn't responding to you. Also: if you do go to extreme levels of difficulty on PvE (or PvP) and do it only on pugging, I do not believe you didn't do it with a lot of toxicity from randoms (you probably found specific people and kept them sort-of constant to some extend which is not what pugging is).

the extreme difficulty of content is way less toxic than meh level of difficulty. I come from the same sort of range of difficulty - approaching 3k rn and 3.6k in SL S3 before I went on a break. People are less toxic in keys because most of the time people can see who is a dumbass who messed up if there even was a mess up - a lot of the time it's just a simple overlapped interrupt or hard overlap and then everyone goes "ggs, good try" while heathstoning out. Very rarely anything goes beyond some mild passive aggressive crap like "nice one...". range from 13-20 is wild shit tho - full of people who have no clue how bad they are and deflect everything onto others, talking shit like that depleted 20 just ruined their life.

[epigramx]

less toxic than meh level of difficulty

technically yes, but as I said in the previous reply: that's easily rectified by just kicking out the transgressor and easily replacing them.
the main issue with *pugging* when combined with hard modes: is that you're often stuck with toxic people (often by lockouts).

[erifwodahs]

technically yes, but as I said in the previous reply: that's easily rectified by just kicking out the transgressor and easily replacing them.
the main issue with *pugging* when combined with hard modes: is that you're often stuck with toxic people (often by lockouts).

Lockouts only applies to pugging mythic and mostly first bosses which still falls under "easier". Don't know how toxic deep mythic pugs are, but they are so niche that it doesn't really matter. I was just commenting on your statement that hard content sees more toxicity - depending on your definition on hard - it certainly varies. In my experience, which might be anecdotal - it's a bell curve, most of toxicity will be in "medium" difficulty content, not because that's where the most people are (most people are still below KSM) but because of pure incompetence and how people think it's other people who do mistakes.

[epigramx]

Lockouts only applies to pugging mythic and mostly first bosses which still falls under "easier"

I used "lockouts" also as a metaphor, to also mean that you can't easily replace someone for >m+24 therefore: for obscene levels of difficulty on 5man: toxicity is also more problematic than on easy modes (I could also argue that 5manning itself is overrated because it easily produces brutal metas of a few specs but that's another topic).

If you only do the first bosses of mythic raiding: you didn't do it at all so it's practically off topic (but even if you do try to do those with pugging: it will also be very annoying compared to just replacing the toxic people on easy modes easily).