[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Syegfryed]

Having an ensemble cast for the films isn’t an issue for me. It’s that the story and characters need to have a strong focus on moving forward, without feeling like they’re in service of a wider story only. It needs to straddle the lines of a strong solo adventure AND the world. The 3 Cap films did that so well. Felt like strong stand-alone films whilst being part of the wider verse.

i don't think its an issue by itself, but its an issue if you don't proper set up. First captain america movie was entirely about him and the story revolved around him, then you had the sequels, being more broad with other elements, other heroes that were already established before.

If that movie would come out today, i bet they would put two other characters to dispute with Captain america for spotlight, and someone else would beat red skull.

[Northern Goblin]

https://movieweb.com/kevin-feige-say...ngers-endgame/

Yep it might hit 400 million globally. Will not hit 500.

Since. Not "as".

And frankly since Endgame we've had a film to tie up Black Widow's past and introduce Yelena, one to introduce Shang-Chi, two films that furthered the Multiverse concepts and a changing of the guard in Wakanda after Chadwick's passing.

This introduced the big bad of the next phase (and possibly beyond) so yes, since Endgame?

- - - Updated - - -

You're making no sense. The quote is quite clear. Quantumania is presented as very important, only second to Endgame.

No one said it's second to Endgame, since Endgame doesn't compare it to any film before.

You're making an argument that doesn't exist.

[InfiniteCharger]

Not really. His strength lies in his numbers. We wont be fighting them 1 by 1 any more, post credits scene literally shows that. There is a reason next Avengers movie is called The Kang Dynasty.

Also, Loki Kang didn't want to fight in the first place and resigned to kill/leave alone choice by the protagonists and Quantumania one was cut off from most of his power when exiled.

Kang is a weird villain in the comics because his story combines time travel and multiverse travel before the multiverse concept was fully fleshed out in later eras with Captain Britain. The main "threat" of Kang was being able to travel back in time and use technology from the future to conquer the earth while they had inferior technology. And he kept doing this over and over again creating multiple alternate timelines and universes where he ruled the earth and in some cases defeated some variants of the Avengers. It was only the Avengers of prime earth that Kang had a problem conquering and this is why he constantly gets defeated, but not necessarily killed.

On top of that basic story, there were the additional versions of Kang that went by different names from different timelines, such as Rama Tut, Immortus, Iron Lad and so forth, which is where the time travel and multiverse became intertwined. And in some variations of the story he was an ancestor to Reed Richards, while in others he was a descendant of Reed Richards. Basically the story kind of was all over the place as time went on and various writers added to it.

The issue in the films is that we never see Kang actually fighting the Avengers in the main universe to establish him as a threat. We have only seen him in the TVA and in the Quantum realm where he is not a threat to anybody. And in those he is killed or implied to be killed. So literally it is a kind of weird set up for the character which already has a weird story in the comics.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Avengers_Vol_1_8

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Avengers_Vol_1_23

[Northern Goblin]

Here's food for thought. It took an armed rebellion, a team of armoured superheroes, a colony of giant technologically advanced genius ants and Modok turning on his boss to beat one Kang. That's frankly quite a large amount of resources to defeat a single person.

Now think about an infinite number of them, that's the threat. There simply isn't anything that 616 has to repel such a mass.

[Makabreska]

Here's food for thought. It took an armed rebellion, a team of armoured superheroes, a colony of giant technologically advanced genius ants and Modok turning on his boss to beat one Kang. That's frankly quite a large amount of resources to defeat a single person.

Now think about an infinite number of them, that's the threat. There simply isn't anything that 616 has to repel such a mass.

One Kang AND his army.

Also, come to think of it, ants were dumb af deus ex machnia....

[Northern Goblin]

One Kang AND his army.

Also, come to think of it, ants were dumb af deus ex machnia....

Every Kang comes with one of those though, which further emphasises the point. The threat is in overwhelming, near impossible numbers.

[Makabreska]

Theory on why Quantumania felt so disjointed and full of weird character choices. Disregard the dumb, clickbaity thumbnail. It is not "sky is falling" vid:

[Ophenia]

Correct, but that just makes people less interested. Fatigued. You beat him, but there are just more. Audience loses interest in the movies because the villain is now tedious . Just endless variations on the same theme. It makes any victory against him seem hollow . And while there are infinite versions of Jang, there are just as many infinite versions of the Heros ..it just gets tiring and boring.

What's ironic is the writer worked on Rick and Morty , where they blasted this type of story and made fun of it.

Yeah, I had little hope for Marvel to succeed in trying to do the Multiverse stuff correctly when they announced it. Multiverse is just as tricky to manage as Time Travel - they've done an okay-ish job with time travel so far if you don't go too deep into details, but multiverse is another level of stuff that's hard to translate to a movie correctly and not have it feel too contrived.

And here we see the result - all movies related to Multiverse are extra-convoluted for nothing, NWH did OK but mostly as a Spider-Man movie. Multiverse of Madness was a disaster, 50% on them trying to use as many clichés as possible to sell it as a "horror" movie, 50% on the multiverse stuff that sucked. And as much as I enjoyed my nearly 3 hours watching Ant-Man 3, I can't say I care about Kang. He'll come back, will be re-defeated, will come back, will be re-defeated and so on and so forth, until whatever Deus Ex Machina they'll invent in the next Avengers opus, making this entire arc completely worthless.

And when we'll look back on it, we'll probably think Thor 4 & Wakanda forever were finally not so bad, as they featured "manageable" storylines with more local threats.

[Dystemper]

Yeah, I had little hope for Marvel to succeed in trying to do the Multiverse stuff correctly when they announced it. Multiverse is just as tricky to manage as Time Travel - they've done an okay-ish job with time travel so far if you don't go too deep into details, but multiverse is another level of stuff that's hard to translate to a movie correctly and not have it feel too contrived.

And here we see the result - all movies related to Multiverse are extra-convoluted for nothing, NWH did OK but mostly as a Spider-Man movie. Multiverse of Madness was a disaster, 50% on them trying to use as many clichés as possible to sell it as a "horror" movie, 50% on the multiverse stuff that sucked. And as much as I enjoyed my nearly 3 hours watching Ant-Man 3, I can't say I care about Kang. He'll come back, will be re-defeated, will come back, will be re-defeated and so on and so forth, until whatever Deus Ex Machina they'll invent in the next Avengers opus, making this entire arc completely worthless.

And when we'll look back on it, we'll probably think Thor 4 & Wakanda forever were finally not so bad, as they featured "manageable" storylines with more local threats.

Marvel b3eds to quit hiring these writers who are too inexperienced, don't know the source material and are only thete to push a message. Dusney needs to quit making these last minute changes to the movies and fucking over the VFX artists .

The Marvel's we already know is a shit show. 3 rounds of reshoota, 5 delays and another writer and director with not much experience.

No interest in Young Avengers, all I want to see is Spiderman, x-men and FF. But I have no faith Disney will do FF or Xmen right.

I am sure there are panicked meetings at Marvel. Do they course correct or keep on doing the same stupid shit. It does not seem like Disney is learning any lessons .

[DingDongKing]

i don't think its an issue by itself, but its an issue if you don't proper set up. First captain america movie was entirely about him and the story revolved around him, then you had the sequels, being more broad with other elements, other heroes that were already established before.

If that movie would come out today, i bet they would put two other characters to dispute with Captain america for spotlight, and someone else would beat red skull.

I don’t agree.

[MrLachyG]

And cocaine bear is only like $8000 from beating Antman. But it's ok, everything is fine at Disney lol.
I do enjoy watching the spin and nental gymnastics defending this shit.

https://www.the-numbers.com/

ouch. talk about counting your chickens before they've all hatched. that $8000 lead is now 1.4 million

- - - Updated - - -

Look at how well demon slayer is doing with less than half of theaters LOL

you mean to tell me that a niche anime movie is doing well in it's first week? no way... still not as good as Ant-Man in it's 3rd or Cocaine Bear in it's 2nd.

[Syegfryed]

you mean to tell me that a niche anime movie is doing well in it's first week? no way... still not as good as Ant-Man in it's 3rd or Cocaine Bear in it's 2nd.

Yep, all things considered demon slayer is doing better.

[Northern Goblin]

Yep, all things considered demon slayer is doing better.

Is "all things considered" slang for "irrelevant factors I personally determine to matter in this specific scenario in order to refute reality"?

It's fourth, that's not doing better. If it were doing better it wouldn't be fourth.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep it might hit 400 million globally. Will not hit 500.

It's now at 420 million.

I look forward to you moving the goalposts to 600 million next.

[Syegfryed]

Is "all things considered" slang for "irrelevant factors I personally determine to matter in this specific scenario in order to refute reality"?

It's fourth, that's not doing better. If it were doing better it wouldn't be fourth.

What you decide "irrelevant" these factors to be? like, can you even fathom the difference in scope between those two? a random anime movie, niche as fuck, that is barely advertised compared to a MCU movie with 3x more theaters that air around the fucking world, and had the advertisement and the back up of the MCU? Can we even compare the budget?

This movie would not even get fourth, its doing extremely well, dunno if it will do as well as the previous one, but shit, at least they will not lose money

[Dystemper]

What you decide "irrelevant" these factors to be? like, can you even fathom the difference in scope between those two? a random anime movie, niche as fuck, that is barely advertised compared to a MCU movie with 3x more theaters that air around the fucking world, and had the advertisement and the back up of the MCU? Can we even compare the budget?

This movie would not even get fourth, its doing extremely well, dunno if it will do as well as the previous one, but shit, at least they will not lose money

They seem to think Antman 3 is doing well . Shilling for Disney lol. It needed to hit 600 million to break even.. Disney needed this movie to be a home run.
It was rapidly declining by uts second week. 420m in 3 weeks is embarrassing for a MCU tentpole movie let alone the launch of phase 5.

The fact that Cocaine bear and Demon Slayer came so close to it is embarrassing for Disney. Antman down another 61% off of a staggering 70% decrease the week before. It's dead. Done. Will be heading to D+ soon

[MrLachyG]

They seem to think Antman 3 is doing well . Shilling for Disney lol. It needed to hit 600 million to break even.. Disney needed this movie to be a home run.
It was rapidly declining by uts second week. 420m in 3 weeks is embarrassing for a MCU tentpole movie let alone the launch of phase 5.

The fact that Cocaine bear and Demon Slayer came so close to it is embarrassing for Disney. Antman down another 61% off of a staggering 70% decrease the week before. It's dead. Done. Will be heading to D+ soon

You seem to be misusing the word ‘shill’. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them a shill. You’ve used the word so much that it’s lost all meaning.

You’re so busy calling people shills that you’ve forgotten to use actual facts in your arguments. Here’s one for you: Demon Slayer did about 2.5 million less in its first week than Ant-Man did in its 3rd

- - - Updated - - -

Demon Slayer is massively popular in the US, it isn't some random ass anime movie. It doing as well as it is, is literally indicative of how popular it is lol

Or is this just me shilling, somehow?

Oh it’s definitely you shilling. We’re all not only shills but we’re the shilliest shills from Shillsville

[MrLachyG]

Lose 100m and you'll be closer to a more accurate number.


Oh, shit I should get on the phone to someone to see about actually getting paid then!

I believe you need to talk to the Shillmaster-General

[InfiniteCharger]

Here's food for thought. It took an armed rebellion, a team of armoured superheroes, a colony of giant technologically advanced genius ants and Modok turning on his boss to beat one Kang. That's frankly quite a large amount of resources to defeat a single person.

Now think about an infinite number of them, that's the threat. There simply isn't anything that 616 has to repel such a mass.

True, but the bigger narrative problem is that the end of Loki implied that the sacred timeline no longer exists. That means that Kang should exist in the multiverse and be conquering timelines. This movie immediately contradicts that story with this council of Kangs because that council shouldn't exist because it basically a rehash of the sacred timeline story. Not only that it totally ignores everything in Loki season 1, as if all these version of Kang were there all along and not affected by the TVA maintaining the sacred timeline. If Kang is a threat he should be shown out in the multiverse actually conquering timelines not sitting in the TVA or in the Quantum realm moping around.

But in reality, the Loki series actually destroyed Kang as a character because it presents numerous plot holes about Kang and his existence in the first place. If Kang is from the future of some version of earth then he who remains would be ultimately one version of that Kang who had a change of heart towards the end of a long series of events. There is no way he could prune all versions of himself in the multiverse because if that was the case, he wouldn't exist in the TVA. On top of that, the end of Loki shouldn't magically recreate all the various universes and timelines, including the one with the original future Kang that started everything. So the idea that after killing He who remains all of a sudden all these Kangs would just pop up in the multiverse simply from some Nexus event is silly. It totally is a contrived story as a result of drastically changing the comics story of the TVA which is a totally separate entity and not under the control of Kang in the comics. And then on top of that, they implied that another version of Kang is in charge of the TVA which would be the most powerful being in the universe, even beyond Thanos, yet that is obviously a bait and switch as we will see in season 2 of Loki. All of the writing around all of this multiverse and time travel theme in the MCU is just really bad and getting worse as they contradict themselves from one movie and series to another.

[Northern Goblin]

What you decide "irrelevant" these factors to be? like, can you even fathom the difference in scope between those two? a random anime movie, niche as fuck, that is barely advertised compared to a MCU movie with 3x more theaters that air around the fucking world, and had the advertisement and the back up of the MCU? Can we even compare the budget?

I mean you listed a bunch of them right there, the film is doing well for itself, it's not doing better than other films. If it was doing better than other films it wouldn't be fourth.

- - - Updated - - -

They seem to think Antman 3 is doing well . Shilling for Disney lol. It needed to hit 600 million to break even.. Disney needed this movie to be a home run.

Where from your arse did you randomly decide that it needed to pull 3x its budget, when the rule of thumb is 2-2.5x?

420m in 3 weeks is embarrassing for a MCU tentpole movie let alone the launch of phase 5.

Eternals was embarrassing. Quantumania is clear of that, and ahead of both other Ant Man titles after three weeks. It's doing numbers similar to the first Doctor Strange film, not their biggest hit but not a failure either.

It's also outdoing the first three films that launched phase 4 (but we'll ignore one of them because Black Widow got fucked over by the D+ release) so it's not even the worst launch film.

It's dead. Done. Will be heading to D+ soon

Even Eternals got 12 weeks, there's no way Ant Man doesn't get that and a couple more.

[Shadowferal]

I'm already dialling his number. Get this sorted, then I can shill even harder than the Grand Shill Wizard!

Wrong number...you're dialing the "Shitmaster General" which is...umm..the same number? Well damn..

Nevermind...