Last of Us [TV]

[Relapses]

Abby's entire build up to the death is what should happen before we actually see it occur, for example.

If they do Abby's backstory before Joel's death then it'll give context to her motives but it will also greatly diminish the impact the narrative has on the audience. I personally think an in-tandem where we play out the events happening in Jackson side-by-side with Abby culminating with a mid-point finale as Joel's death then the aftermath of that playing in the second half of the season would be the way I'd like to see it go down. The other option I see floated is to follow Abby's story for the entirety of Season 2 with it culminating in the realization that Joel is the person she's hunting, allowing the Season 3 opening to be the back half of TLoU2. But Druckmann is heavily involved in this project so I think he's going to insist that the show play out very similarly to the game.

[Redwyrm]

I wonder after this seasons success and the acclaims given to the cast whether a season 2 can get the same ratings minus "that person"

Cause, let's be honest Pedro is killing it (heh) as Joel. And a story without Joel... Even though the gaming community knows it's coming, the other half of the viewers don't

It's like when I bought Ni No Kuni 2 after thoroughly enjoying Ni No Kuni 1. And being severely disappointed that almost none of what made the first game great was in the second game.

[DarkAmbient]

No important canon sections of the game where removed or changed in the series. The only thing removed is the ass blasting gamer character mechanics and some slight changes to minor details of the story. This is why it's a gamer ass take to claim Joel has less agency because there is no gameplay where he kills 30 people or infected every episode. You don't need that shit in a show and it would only take away from the story in a show format.

I never said those things. Your entire reply is completely off the mark.

[Relapses]

I wonder after this seasons success and the acclaims given to the cast whether a season 2 can get the same ratings minus "that person"

Cause, let's be honest Pedro is killing it (heh) as Joel. And a story without Joel... Even though the gaming community knows it's coming, the other half of the viewers don't

It's like when I bought Ni No Kuni 2 after thoroughly enjoying Ni No Kuni 1. And being severely disappointed that almost none of what made the first game great was in the second game.

Even though Joel will have headed to the golf course in the sky, there's plenty of flashback content from TLoU2 that they can use. We'd still see him in nearly every episode even after his death.

[everydaygamer]

I wonder after this seasons success and the acclaims given to the cast whether a season 2 can get the same ratings minus "that person"

Cause, let's be honest Pedro is killing it (heh) as Joel. And a story without Joel... Even though the gaming community knows it's coming, the other half of the viewers don't

It's like when I bought Ni No Kuni 2 after thoroughly enjoying Ni No Kuni 1. And being severely disappointed that almost none of what made the first game great was in the second game.

it will be fine, Joel doesn’t carry the show as much as he does in the game so I doubt people will be as ridiculously attached as gamers were.

[Tech614]

I wonder after this seasons success and the acclaims given to the cast whether a season 2 can get the same ratings minus "that person"

Cause, let's be honest Pedro is killing it (heh) as Joel. And a story without Joel... Even though the gaming community knows it's coming, the other half of the viewers don't

It's like when I bought Ni No Kuni 2 after thoroughly enjoying Ni No Kuni 1. And being severely disappointed that almost none of what made the first game great was in the second game.

It is not a story without, because there is still plenty of content with that person after that happens.

PS none of what made Ni No Kuni good was in the 2nd game because the only thing good about Ni No Kuni was studio ghibli who had nothing to do with 2.

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I’d personally want them to use the time for build up to show both Ellie/Joel and Abby/father being together to parallel them more early on as both have parts earlier in there timeline.

Going though 90% if Ellie story then swapping to Abby also seemed like a crap way to frame it.

It would be boring and people would stop watching it. People aren't watching for every episode to be a slice of life anime without important plot development. There is no major events to kick off season 2. That is happening right off the bat bro... there is literally no huge story developments to pin the season on before that happens.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It would be boring and people would stop watching it. People aren't watching for every episode to be a slice of life anime without important plot development. There is no major events to kick off season 2. That is happening right off the bat bro... there is literally no huge story developments to pin the season on before that happens.

There’s like what an hour or so of Ellie/Joel and Abby/dad before the major event kicks off, you could easily fit that into a single episode if Mabye a longer one ending with Joel telling Ellie the truth flashing back to Abby having a bad time.

Given that episode 3 is likely the highest praised of the lot as far as I’ve seen I'm sure audiences would be fine with a mostly peaceful episode with a little bit of action at the end from a new perspective which could then lead perfectly into Abby searching around and Joel/Ellie being a bit icy before said major event ends episode 2.

[Tech614]

There’s like what an hour or so of Ellie/Joel and Abby/dad before the major event kicks off, you could easily fit that into a single episode if Mabye a longer one ending with Joel telling Ellie the truth flashing back to Abby having a bad time.

Given that episode 3 is likely the highest praised of the lot as far as I’ve seen I'm sure audiences would be fine with a mostly peaceful episode with a little bit of action at the end from a new perspective which could then lead perfectly into Abby searching around and Joel/Ellie being a bit icy before said major event ends episode 2.

Episode 3 wouldn't be so highly praised if it was the season premier or something similar like it was. It would be hilariously bad pacing. A premier needs a major event to get the audience invested and retain viewership to get them through the slower paced world building episodes.

[PrimiOne]

I must admit that I was not the target of this series. On top of running from projects based on videogames like a fire ( because...well you know why...because 95% is absolute trash that don't even try) the zombie apocalypse genre is something that I have never been able to bear ( I really think this is the first thing I ever see...).

But I started this show based on the great reception and the Greg Mazin name ( Chernobyl is simply a masterpiece...) and...fuck!! This is actually great !!

I love Ellie. Everyone is so fucking dramatic ( no critic...this is the end of times) and she is a complete contrast to this unbereable weight all the characters have, she is the sense of humor, the more lighted perspective. And the better part is both the actress and the writters had the talent to suggest this is not childhood innocence, this is not Ellie not understanding the shitfest but the psychology of someone that has been born an raised in this end of times so everything is natural to her, she hasn't known anything different: apocalypse is how she calls tuesday.

I love the "Save who you can save" moment. That confused look of Joel that stands for a few seconds and then grabs Ellie and run, no goodbyes,no hugs...his world has fallen apart ( for the second time) and and new one has started.

I love the Bill and Frank story ( this is where I am right now).

I love that this is about the survivors not about the zombies.


In the end I should have known that there's talented people...and Mazin is one of them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Episode 3 wouldn't be so highly praised if it was the season premier or something similar like it was. It would be hilariously bad pacing. A premier needs a major event to get the audience invested and retain viewership to get them through the slower paced world building episodes.

And you’d have Joel telling Ellie the truth and Abby’s bad day to do that with.

The kick off of 2 is something like no show Mabye ever has put in a season premier even if something similar is going to happen mid or end of season there is no reason they would need to start the season with it to get people invested especially after the high of this first season.

[crusadernero]

There’s like what an hour or so of Ellie/Joel and Abby/dad before the major event kicks off, you could easily fit that into a single episode if Mabye a longer one ending with Joel telling Ellie the truth flashing back to Abby having a bad time.

Given that episode 3 is likely the highest praised of the lot as far as I’ve seen I'm sure audiences would be fine with a mostly peaceful episode with a little bit of action at the end from a new perspective which could then lead perfectly into Abby searching around and Joel/Ellie being a bit icy before said major event ends episode 2.

For the established fanbase that played the games? Sure.

For literally everyone else? Nah, dont think so. The episode is great, but if the show had started with that.. It would probably not be as praised as it is now. Flashback episodes can be a tricky one to pull off, for the most part its been fine in this show. Ep 3 was great, ep 7 wasnt all that great. Ep 7 was highly predictable. I knew very early on what would happen, it was just about waiting for it. Sadly it happend at the very end, so that was that.

Ep 8 was savage, in a savage world. Good acting.

[Koriani]

Really strong episode, eight or nine.

I might have preferred it if it was all Ellie, does penicillin work that fast? From deaths door to killer?

Very very minor quibble though. Really good series

Re: Penicillin - no, it doesn't necessarily work that fast, or delivered 'straight injected' to the wound.

But to be fair, NONE of the injuries we're seeing 'get fixed' (specifically those) in the show are, in any way, connected to reality in what 'fixes' humans. Not the bullet wound Bill took to the gut in episode 2, and not this stab-wound Joel took to the gut that Ellie sewed up. Its just 'Video game" medicine/healing.

In the real world - much better odds are - both of those people would have been dead from those wounds. May have taken a few days, but probably would have died.

But in the world of "Last of Us", no matter what penetrating gut wound you got, sewing up your skin "fixes it." =D

(Let it be known this is not a complaint - lol. Doesn't bother me at all, and for me and hubby is now its own meme. Because yeah, most of tv/movies do 'fixing bullet/stab wounds' this way.)

[Genju]

If they do Abby's backstory before Joel's death then it'll give context to her motives but it will also greatly diminish the impact the narrative has on the audience. I personally think an in-tandem where we play out the events happening in Jackson side-by-side with Abby culminating with a mid-point finale as Joel's death then the aftermath of that playing in the second half of the season would be the way I'd like to see it go down. The other option I see floated is to follow Abby's story for the entirety of Season 2 with it culminating in the realization that Joel is the person she's hunting, allowing the Season 3 opening to be the back half of TLoU2. But Druckmann is heavily involved in this project so I think he's going to insist that the show play out very similarly to the game.

The Story in the Game wants you to feel Eli's blind hate in the first part, climaxing in the confrontation with abby without resolving it and forcing you into experiencing abbys story, with the goal to give context and making you to start to like abby (which totally worked for me).

I think the overall story loses so much effect when you order the events to make it "normal".
The flashbacks in the game work so well because you really miss Joel and are in shock, and they come in the right moment when your hate for abbys is still high.
For example the trip to the museum wouldnt nearly be as effective if it happend prior joels golfing exercise, its like a favorite side char in a series shows up for a single episode.

[Darththeo]

The Story in the Game wants you to feel Eli's blind hate in the first part, climaxing in the confrontation with abby without resolving it and forcing you into experiencing abbys story, with the goal to give context and making you to start to like abby (which totally worked for me).

I think the overall story loses so much effect when you order the events to make it "normal".
The flashbacks in the game work so well because you really miss Joel and are in shock, and they come in the right moment when your hate for abbys is still high.
For example the trip to the museum wouldnt nearly be as effective if it happend prior joels golfing exercise, its like a favorite side char in a series shows up for a single episode.

You are in a minority in that opinion.

[Relapses]

The Story in the Game wants you to feel Eli's blind hate in the first part, climaxing in the confrontation with abby without resolving it and forcing you into experiencing abbys story, with the goal to give context and making you to start to like abby (which totally worked for me).

I think the overall story loses so much effect when you order the events to make it "normal".
The flashbacks in the game work so well because you really miss Joel and are in shock, and they come in the right moment when your hate for abbys is still high.
For example the trip to the museum wouldnt nearly be as effective if it happend prior joels golfing exercise, its like a favorite side char in a series shows up for a single episode.

For the record, I don't _hate_ the way the story in TLoU2 plays out, my issue has always been when the major events happen. I think that the show being adapted provides an exceptionally unique opportunity to tell the same story but _also_ fix some of the narrative pitfalls that fans reacted negatively towards. I don't think that Joel's death on its own is why people reacted so violently. They reacted that way because it's pretty much the inciting mechanism for the entire game. Tell the same story but move the story beats around a bit and let people live a little bit with the characters then the tone changes completely.

On a personal level, I really hope they explore this. Though like I said, with Druckmann involved at the level he is, I think it's most likely that it ends up playing out exactly like it did in the game.

[Tech614]

For the record, I don't _hate_ the way the story in TLoU2 plays out, my issue has always been when the major events happen. I think that the show being adapted provides an exceptionally unique opportunity to tell the same story but _also_ fix some of the narrative pitfalls that fans reacted negatively towards. I don't think that Joel's death on its own is why people reacted so violently. They reacted that way because it's pretty much the inciting mechanism for the entire game. Tell the same story but move the story beats around a bit and let people live a little bit with the characters then the tone changes completely.

On a personal level, I really hope they explore this. Though like I said, with Druckmann involved at the level he is, I think it's most likely that it ends up playing out exactly like it did in the game.

People reacted negatively to it because their cowboy power fantasy character got his head bopped in and they where forced to play as a lesbian and later a buff chick. That is it, and that is all. There are some pacing issues with TLOU2 but it has absolutely nothing to do with Joel's death(which had to happen exactly when it did for the story about Abby and Ellie to be about Abby and Ellie not mr big bad cowboy rambo) and lets not act like gamers as a whole was driving the controversy when it was one specific group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpmt7LHRP4E Still love how this video exposes how absolutely brain dead the majority of the people "mad" about TLOU2 actually where.

[Relapses]

People reacted negatively to it because their cowboy power fantasy character got his head bopped in and they where forced to play as a lesbian and later a buff chick. That is it, and that is all. There are some pacing issues with TLOU2 but it has absolutely nothing to do with Joel's death(which had to happen exactly when it did for the story about Abby and Ellie to be about Abby and Ellie not mr big bad cowboy rambo) and lets not act like gamers as a whole was driving the controversy when it was one specific group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpmt7LHRP4E Still love how this video exposes how absolutely brain dead the majority of the people "mad" about TLOU2 actually where.

I have no doubt we'll see plenty of regurgitation of the same smooth brain takes on this forum but I think if the show at least humanizes Abby a bit before she offs Joel it'll go over a bit more smoothly with the TV audience... even if it ends up happening in the first or second episode. GoT was still insanely popular after they killed off a number of pretty popular characters -- one ironically was even played by Pedro Pascal -- so I think there's precedence there.

[Tech614]

I have no doubt we'll see plenty of regurgitation of the same smooth brain takes on this forum but I think if the show at least humanizes Abby a bit before she offs Joel it'll go over a bit more smoothly with the TV audience... even if it ends up happening in the first or second episode. GoT was still insanely popular after they killed off a number of pretty popular characters -- one ironically was even played by Pedro Pascal -- so I think there's precedence there.

The other thing the show has going for it is it's already shown Joel is a vulnerable human and not a super soldier, super hero motherfucker like gamers heralded him as thinking it's impossible for him to get got by Abby's crew in their own little fan fiction. Series only viewers are already set up that one day he is probably not going to make it while those smooth brained gamers thought he was a marvel hero and there is no way you can possibly kill their hero!

I think it will go over fine in the show anyways because the series only viewers love Ramsey and she can carry the show as long as they don't mess up the Abby casting. Some r/TLOU2 pimple brains will try to create some outrage about it but I doubt you will see it from TV only watchers. They don't have an unhealthy attachment to Joel as the "player character" and think they are him.

[Darththeo]

Yeah, no. I really don’t understand how people sit there and tell themselves there is only ONE reason and one reason alone for these types of things. It’s such a massive problem these days. I have no issue with either of those things, and I was fine with Joel being killed. But did I like part 2? It was ok at best to me but an absolute downgrade in terms of story. Abby was pretty damn unlikable for most of her story. And as fun as it was crushing infected heads with her fists it didn’t do much to make me care about her. Her group of friends were pretty awful too, especially ol’ bug-eyes whose name I can’t remember.

Yeah, it isn't just a male power fantasy issue why people were upset. Were there some where it was the case? Sure, but to claim "everyone who dislike the game" disliked it for that.

Abby was unlikable for me. She is a boring character. Oh, she is well read, and works out, but also the number one Scar killer of the WLF. She is only afraid of heights. The only one of her friends that have a problem with her is the current girlfriend of her exboyfriend meaning we can't tell if that is anything more than the new gf being jealous. Her story just felt to me to be an explanation to why Ellie never found her rather than an interesting story to tell. Also, how she killed Joel, she just happens to wander across Joel and Tommy and Tommy just happens to tell her there names and both just happen to trust her enough to follow her back to where her friends were.

I mean the only reason to like Abby is that I like her voice actor. Laura Bailey is amazing and one of my favorite voice actors. Abby could have been an interesting character, but they didn't go that route. She just felt like a fanfic character put into a canon story rather than a character of the world.

This isn't even getting into that TLoU2 doesn't really play into any of the plot threads of the first game outside of flashbacks. Joel was going to die in the sequel, anyone who played the first game would or should have known that was the fate for Joel. I personally would have handled it differently.

[Tech614]

Yeah, it isn't just a male power fantasy issue why people were upset. Were there some where it was the case? Sure, but to claim "everyone who dislike the game" disliked it for that.

Except I didn't say it was everyone who didn't like the game. I said it was everyone mad about ONE PARTICULAR SINGLE point of the game that makes the entire game happen in the first place. The point really flew over your head. Not even gonna bother to read the spoiler paragraph if you can't even grasp what was said in the first place.

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I have no issue with either of those things, and I was fine with Joel being killed.

Then you literally aren't who I'm talking about. Did you miss the entire point of what I was saying? Jesus christ is reading that difficult these days? No where did I claim everyone who disliked the game was those types holy fuck dudes.