Runic Brand is still overtuned

[Accendor]

Honestly, this iconic ability on the Odyn fight is still super overpowered. The ticking damage is simply insane, even on not tyrannical weeks it's already incredible punishing.
I am not the best m+ player in the world, not even close. However, I finished all dungeons on either 22 or 23. I don't time all of those, but most.
I still struggle to finish my 20 HoV on time. It's not even about ME dying to it (it still takes me sometimes) but usually at least 2 people of my group die to it, despite being positioned very close to the middle of the circle.
Sometimes it just flat out kills 4 people.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that by "just git good" this could be solved, but there is no other ability in all the dungeons that is even remotely as punishing and devestating as Runic Brand.
IMO another nerf is more than overdue.

Opinions?

[Tojara]

It does a lot of damage, but IIRC Odyn is one of the few bosses that doesn't even SCALE with Tyrannical or Fortified at all, he simply scales with key level (there's a few bosses like this).

A lot of time people pop defensives after the damage is already going out, instead of prior. That said, the amount of time you have to reach your rune isn't exactly high. It punishes some classes way more than others. Some of the affixes let alone the seasonal affix can have terrible overlaps with this mechanic as well. I feel like if you're geared properly and your healer prepares properly, it should be designed in such a state that as long as you don't hit the orbs flying you should be able to live semi comfortably.

[Bjay]

I disagree. Nerfing it would make the whole fight trivial imo. I've never had problems with it, even on tyrannical grievous. If people save their personals + health pots for runic brands, use speed increases or get externals (tiger's lust, feathers, roar) and are at 100% hp when it happens (which they should be), they won't die to runic brand.

[Woobels]

Runic Brand is (somewhat) fine on it's own but you can get into some really degenerate situations in combination with Thundering sometimes. IMO it does do too much damage.

[Jimson]

As a lock I'm able to DR with Dark Pact on a 20 and get to my rune before I take too much damage, but I freely admit I don't know how well other classes handle it.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

It really isn’t.

[Azharok]

As long as you're in the middle before it goes out, it's fine.

[Tech614]

Runic Brand being an issue is almost always a positioning or self awareness issue on your own part. Be near the center, pop a defensive or health pot if needed and there is no excuse for dying to this.

[Jester Joe]

As a lock I'm able to DR with Dark Pact on a 20 and get to my rune before I take too much damage, but I freely admit I don't know how well other classes handle it.

Well let me tell you, as Ret, I pop my one defensive, and it instantly breaks it on a single tick.

[Tech614]

Well let me tell you, as Ret, I pop my one defensive, and it instantly breaks it on a single tick.

Then if you really need it take divine protection over shield of vengeance its 8 seconds and doesn't break, miniscule dps loss if you really need it you also have divine shield you can also just heal yourself to full how on earth would this be hard to survive as ret? One of the few classes that could just completely ignore the spear shatter for one of the brands to boot with bubble lulz through any stun orbs. Non issue.

[Armael]

Ok then, all of you smart people. In a 21+ key, since there will be 2 runic brand phases (at minimum), how am I popping a defensive and a health pot for the second 1 then if I used it on the 1st one? On Fort 21 HoV, I die after 2 ticks if the healer hasn't/doesn't heal me (for that 2nd one).

[Tech614]

Ok then, all of you smart people. In a 21+ key, since there will be 2 runic brand phases (at minimum), how am I popping a defensive and a health pot for the second 1 then if I used it on the 1st one? On Fort 21 HoV, I die after 2 ticks if the healer hasn't/doesn't heal me (for that 2nd one).

If you need a defensive and a health pot for a single brand you already fucked up. It's not like it's only your shit either there should be some form of pre hotting or popping of a group DR before the phase hits to begin with. You aren't dying in 2 ticks. On a 21 it ticks for about 100k a second before any DR so cut the bullshit about dying in 2 ticks unless you're doing a 21 at 350 ilvl. That and kicking the add is the only relevant mechanics in the whole fucking fight unless you can't handling not standing in shit. People really want fights to be free huh?

[Jester Joe]

Then if you really need it take divine protection over shield of vengeance its 8 seconds and doesn't break, miniscule dps loss if you really need it you also have divine shield you can also just heal yourself to full how on earth would this be hard to survive as ret? One of the few classes that could just completely ignore the spear shatter for one of the brands to boot with bubble lulz through any stun orbs. Non issue.

Man, I can't imagine why ret with its horrible movement abilities would have issues surviving outside of a single immunity that can't be used if there's more than one rune phase

What's next, gonna say "oh but you shouldn't have 2 rune phases?!!?!?".

Or are you going miss the fact that the original was a tongue in cheek joke.

[Tech614]

Man, I can't imagine why ret with its horrible movement abilities would have issues surviving outside of a single immunity that can't be used if there's more than one rune phase

What's next, gonna say "oh but you shouldn't have 2 rune phases?!!?!?".

Or are you going miss the fact that the original was a tongue in cheek joke.

Actually I would say you should be getting 2 rune phases unless you're doing key levels you vastly out gear/skill. That would be pretty basic shit for a push group and the mechanic wouldn't be that relevant otherwise. If you're capable of 1 phasing Odyn but still die to runic brand that would be beyond me. Ret has more than enough resources to deal with 2, it's just one of them is a complete joke to begin with.

[Jester Joe]

Actually I would say you should be getting 2 rune phases unless you're doing key levels you vastly out gear/skill. That would be pretty basic shit for a push group and the mechanic wouldn't be that relevant otherwise. If you're capable of 1 phasing Odyn but still die to runic brand that would be beyond me. Ret has more than enough resources to deal with 2, it's just one of them is a complete joke to begin with.

"More than enough resources" is a hilarious way to put it.

More like, 1.25 ways to deal with it. There's a reason why the entire spec tree is being reworked and a major focus is survivability. Ret folds like paper on any tyrannical key that has heavy damage over time, like Sha of Doubt's debuff, if ret isn't the first dispelled its basically going to kill you even if you start dumping WoGs on yourself.

[Jimson]

Well let me tell you, as Ret, I pop my one defensive, and it instantly breaks it on a single tick.

Yeah, point taken. Gogo Talent Tree revamp!

[Woobels]

I think it could take a nerf, but HOV on tyrannical needs a nerf in general. It's good to see they nuked the damage from electrical storm in Nokhud a bunch because I would rarely get past there on pugs, now hit the other outliers too.

[Tech614]

I think it could take a nerf, but HOV on tyrannical needs a nerf in general. It's good to see they nuked the damage from electrical storm in Nokhud a bunch because I would rarely get past there on pugs, now hit the other outliers too.

Hyrja should definitely be adjusted so a cheese strat that requires really good timing on the part of the tank isn't the only way to beat her on high tyr keys. Rest of the dungeon is w/e though.

- - - Updated - - -

"More than enough resources" is a hilarious way to put it.

More like, 1.25 ways to deal with it. There's a reason why the entire spec tree is being reworked and a major focus is survivability. Ret folds like paper on any tyrannical key that has heavy damage over time, like Sha of Doubt's debuff, if ret isn't the first dispelled its basically going to kill you even if you start dumping WoGs on yourself.

No one is saying Ret is good and constant damage in take like locks or rogues or hdh. But for an event that will only occur a max of 2 times during the fight they absolutely have more than enough resources to deal with it. Comparing it to Sha of Doubt it just absolute insanity, that's rng on how often the dot will be on you this is something you can fully plan out that only lasts a few seconds each time.

The tree isn't being re worked because ret can't handle runic brand, don't make me laugh. Runic Brand of dangerous things to ret in M+ is so far down the list you would get bored reading before getting to it.

[Runicblood]

Wait, that spell does damage? laughs in death knight shielded in anti magic shell.

I agree to an extent, A LOT of people die there and the damage is massive. As a DK i cheese it every time with ams before the cast, and on the rare occasions i miss my ams my other defensives usually are enough, but it is very punishing if you happen to take just a few seconds extra to reach your rune.

[Jester Joe]

No one is saying Ret is good and constant damage in take like locks or rogues or hdh. But for an event that will only occur a max of 2 times during the fight they absolutely have more than enough resources to deal with it. Comparing it to Sha of Doubt it just absolute insanity, that's rng on how often the dot will be on you this is something you can fully plan out that only lasts a few seconds each time.

The tree isn't being re worked because ret can't handle runic brand, don't make me laugh. Runic Brand of dangerous things to ret in M+ is so far down the list you would get bored reading before getting to it.

No one is comparing it to Sha of Doubt, that's just called an example of how high keys cause ret to die.

Nor did I say the rework was specifically for Runic Brand, the point is that ret doesn't have the tools to reliably it like you're making it sound because you're putting this in a perfect scenario where no one has to pop a defensive because maybe a orb wasn't dodged properly or maybe a cast from the add got off. If a single thing goes wrong and ret has to pop a defensive for it they're screwed for brand. I've played ret probably far more than you have ever and I hardly need to be told what their weakness is or what they can do to avoid issues. Never mind the fact that I already said the first comment was a joke about how SoV is a joke, that you took as an "ACKSHULEE" moment.