Baldurs Gate 3

[Makabreska]

Honestly I hope they don’t and I can abuse a bug to stack a couple 100 barrels in the final boss room.

Managed to break both OS 1/2 doing that and it was stupid fun.

On the other hand, having quests you cannot complete ain't much fun...

[Proskill]

do u think any of the ten-town will make an appearance in BG3 or its reserved only for icewind dale franchise?

[Makabreska]

do u think any of the ten-town will make an appearance in BG3 or its reserved only for icewind dale franchise?

Do you think we will randomly move to the far north to Icewind Dale in game?

[Proskill]

sure, why not

[Mehrunes]

Yeeeee, I can easily see this backfiring later in the game when you finally reach Baldur's Gate and would have to apologize left and right for your heritage. :v

Then you're obviously a Seldarine Drow. Or a High Elf with a skin condition. Then bullshit your way through with charisma. Also, from what I glimpsed, one of the deluxe pack bonuses is a race-swap illusion helmet based on that of Fane from D:OS 2. So you could also roll with that. Or just basic illusion spell. I don't think any NPC noticed me using it in the early access when I was trolling around with it. Maybe the Gith could see through it when you failed some checks in culture-specific dialogue, it's been a while since I last played it.

Which is funny, because drows are shoot on sight. No questions. No question later, Just never. Just shoot.

Not in 5E that BG3 is based on, they aren't.

[Nymrohd]

Do you think we will randomly move to the far north to Icewind Dale in game?

The Icewind Dale people tend to move around a lot.

[Mehrunes]

An interesting take on this is it hasn't been that drastic for a while now. Drow are still looked at suspiciously, even heavily so. Freaking out most likely as well but not quite so kill on sight in 5E like it used to be. Drow cause alarm but not always the kill on sight.

Fifth Edition change it up a bit.

The TTRPG Book, Sword Coast Adventures Guild talks about Drow a good bit and how tempered people opinions of them have changed a little in the last number of years because of he actions of a few good Drow as well as the Gods Eilistraee, and Vhaeraun.

I don't know how in depth Larian will get into that lore and work it into the game. It could go a great number ways in design for sure but what I bet is it wont be outright hostility.

Wait, does it mention Vhaeraun by name too? He's not exactly a heroic figure like Eilistraee and in 5E he's turned around and is under Lolth's foot rather than rebelling against her (with the perk that his faith can now be practiced in the open).

Bingo! At the basic level of design that had to be their thinking. Once the Drow race was a main playable race, it all changed for them.

Now, I'd like to see larian keep up some of that unique dialogue for them. Drow should still be seen as a possible threat and looked at with appreciation. Who knows if Larian put in that much work throughout the whole game just for Drow vs what we have seen in Act 1.

Judging by the early access I don't see any reasons to worry. There's a ton of Drow-specific dialogue and that applies to both the player dialogue options and NPC dialogue. The latter of which varies from people freaking out, especially some of the Tieflings, to various degrees of submission from the Underdark races. And for the player the dialogue options vary even depending on whether you're Lolth-sworn or Seldarine Drow and whether you're female or not.

Even Lloth's Menzo Drow are going through something of a "Civil War". Where Baenre and some other Houses now know that Lloth's promises are a lie, while other houses are just as fanatical as ever.

Which is great, because the evil for the sake of evil way they've been portrayed as in the past lacked any nuance. The Drow realizing that Lolth is a major asshole even to them that's hindering their race is one of the more logical avenues to explore. Though personally I'd like an exploration of the other Dark Seldarine gods as well, with perhaps entire cities further away from Menzoberranzan turning to Selvetarm or Kiaransalee instead.

[Kilpi]

Honestly I hope they don’t and I can abuse a bug to stack a couple 100 barrels in the final boss room.

Managed to break both OS 1/2 doing that and it was stupid fun.

Tbh, one of the best features of OS 1 and 2 is how much you can exploit stuff if you want. Only thing I wish they'd prevent was boss conversation exploits, which I think they kinda fixed a bit in 2. But in the first one you could easily have one dude in conversation with the boss before encounter and then the other player would just use 30 minutes to collect all explosive barrels in the map to teleport next to boss (or trap them for a few rounds).

[quras]

Wait, does it mention Vhaeraun by name too? He's not exactly a heroic figure like Eilistraee and in 5E he's turned around and is under Lolth's foot rather than rebelling against her (with the perk that his faith can now be practiced in the open).


Judging by the early access I don't see any reasons to worry. There's a ton of Drow-specific dialogue and that applies to both the player dialogue options and NPC dialogue. The latter of which varies from people freaking out, especially some of the Tieflings, to various degrees of submission from the Underdark races. And for the player the dialogue options vary even depending on whether you're Lolth-sworn or Seldarine Drow and whether you're female or not.


SNIP......

Vhaeraun is mentioned as a God of thieves and a God for Drow males that no longer care for the matriarchy. Taken as, the ones that no longer follow or care for Lloth. Thats in the official D&D game material and not in a novel from someone like Salvatore. He may have done something different in his novels VS the game. They also mention Selvetarm as the God of Warriors for male Drow as well going against the matriarchy.
The Sword Coast Adventures Guide specifically mentions, " The actions of these few heroic drow have tempered some people’s opinions toward the race, although the appearance of a dark elf on the surface remains a rare event and a cause for alarm."

That is of course all TT game stuff and who knows what makes it into BG3 other than there is no way it's kill on sight. I think Larian will hit on it just enough in dialogue options like you mentioned to make it known your Drow isn't well liked but watch your step. A fun dialogue Role Play thing but not so heavily used it takes away from their overall story work.

[Makabreska]

Which is great, because the evil for the sake of evil way they've been portrayed as in the past lacked any nuance. The Drow realizing that Lolth is a major asshole even to them that's hindering their race is one of the more logical avenues to explore. Though personally I'd like an exploration of the other Dark Seldarine gods as well, with perhaps entire cities further away from Menzoberranzan turning to Selvetarm or Kiaransalee instead.

Aren't Drow a fucked up evil race becasue they got corrupted pre-descent by some higher tier demon/devil, and this shit still lingers? If so, ditching Lloth would probably mostly shake up their social matriarchal structure.

[Nymrohd]

Aren't Drow a fucked up evil race becasue they got corrupted pre-descent by some higher tier demon/devil, and this shit still lingers? If so, ditching Lloth would probably mostly shake up their social matriarchal structure.

They were pretty fucked up pre-corruption. Switching from Ghaunadar to Lolth is just changing flavors of evil.

[Aliven]

Not in 5E that BG3 is based on, they aren't.

Can you point me into where it is stated? Because in Player handbook not only there is information for GM to consider giving player that option but also box which explicitly states that for most drow are demon spider worshipers from below the earth who go only to the surface to kill and kidnap for more sacrificies. Yes, there is info that Drizzt broke that mold but it is not stated he changed world perception on them. More like, this is a model character for good drows.

- - - Updated - - -

That is of course all TT game stuff and who knows what makes it into BG3 other than there is no way it's kill on sight. I think Larian will hit on it just enough in dialogue options like you mentioned to make it known your Drow isn't well liked but watch your step. A fun dialogue Role Play thing but not so heavily used it takes away from their overall story work.

Thats how half orcs are treated. Mistrusted and very quick to be blamed and be a scapegoat, barely tolerable.

[Mehrunes]

Vhaeraun is mentioned as a God of thieves and a God for Drow males that no longer care for the matriarchy. Taken as, the ones that no longer follow or care for Lloth. Thats in the official D&D game material and not in a novel from someone like Salvatore. He may have done something different in his novels VS the game. They also mention Selvetarm as the God of Warriors for male Drow as well going against the matriarchy.
The Sword Coast Adventures Guide specifically mentions, " The actions of these few heroic drow have tempered some people’s opinions toward the race, although the appearance of a dark elf on the surface remains a rare event and a cause for alarm."

That is of course all TT game stuff and who knows what makes it into BG3 other than there is no way it's kill on sight. I think Larian will hit on it just enough in dialogue options like you mentioned to make it known your Drow isn't well liked but watch your step. A fun dialogue Role Play thing but not so heavily used it takes away from their overall story work.

Vhaeraun becoming more subservient to Lolth in 5E is from Mordekainen though, not the Forgotten Realm novels. Which, if I recall correctly, also came out after SCAG. Though that's the older Mordekainen book. And an argument could be made that with its removal from D&D beyond because the new Mordekainen book subsumed it in regards of racial options, the status of the lore tidbits from Tome of Foes is quite shaky right now.

Aren't Drow a fucked up evil race becasue they got corrupted pre-descent by some higher tier demon/devil, and this shit still lingers? If so, ditching Lloth would probably mostly shake up their social matriarchal structure.

I mean, they were major assholes during the Crown Wars that led to their fall, but then again so were the Sun Elves, who even started some of them. And they turned to Lolth and the rest of the Dark Seldarine for good by their end, which is what got them exposed to corruption because by that point Lolth was already chilling in the Abyss. Though the strongest thing affecting them is the "good" Elf god transforming them into actual Drow. That and their attunement to the Underdark that developed over generations is what affects them the most, physically.

Also, I'm not saying that Drow should suddenly change into Disney princesses prancing about with butterflies, but their old "let's be evil because Lolth commands us to be evil" got old pretty quick. They can be evil just fine, just with some nuance, variety to their reasons and actual motivation stronger than "praise be the goddess that's actually a massive thorn in our society's backside if you think about it". Underdark is a rather shitty place after all and every major race living there is out to get the others, so it'd be logical for Drow to be xenophobic bastards that believe in might makes right mentality. Which would still be rather evil from our world's perspective or even from the perspective of Faerun's topside races, but for them it would make sense because it would allow their society to function in its environment.

Can you point me into where it is stated? Because in Player handbook not only there is information for GM to consider giving player that option but also box which explicitly states that for most drow are demon spider worshipers from below the earth who go only to the surface to kill and kidnap for more sacrificies. Yes, there is info that Drizzt broke that mold but it is not stated he changed world perception on them. More like, this is a model character for good drows.

I can point you to that very same description and how its beginning two sentences that talked about Drow being evil was deliberately removed in an errata, together with the entire The darkness of the Drow box in the corner. And also the errata that removed their evil alignment. And the earlier bit from SCAG mentioned by @quras before.

[Nymrohd]

Also, I'm not saying that Drow should suddenly change into Disney princesses prancing about with butterflies, but their old "let's be evil because Lolth commands us to be evil" got old pretty quick. They can be evil just fine, just with some nuance, variety to their reasons and actual motivation stronger than "praise be the goddess that's actually a massive thorn in our society's backside if you think about it". Underdark is a rather shitty place after all and every major race living there is out to get the others, so it'd be logical for Drow to be xenophobic bastards that believe in might makes right mentality. Which would still be rather evil from our world's perspective or even from the perspective of Faerun's topside races, but for them it would make sense because it would allow their society to function in its environment.

I'd say that was always the case though. Drow priestesses did not really believe in the benevolence of Lolth. It was the only way to climb to the top of their society so they followed that way. In most cases shown in both novels and other lore, their faith was pragmatic instead of transcedental; Lolth exists, she wields power in their society, she is the best path to power. And while capricious about bestowing her divine power, Lolth did bestow such power massively; very few other societies have as many or as powerful divine casters as the drow do and that is a major component of their military might. Sure there are a few insane priestesses who are absolutely devoted but they are very much in the minority and that has been the consistent depiction since way back in the D modules and the earlier Salvatore novels with the FR drow becoming increasingly more pragmatic as time went by.
So yes, the drow could try to live without Lolth but if that part of their military strength suddenly collapses, unless they go for a god who is also very liberal with giving divine power (e.g. Bane or Cyric) half their cities would fall to duergar or illithids or beholders in minimal time.

[Makabreska]

So yes, the drow could try to live without Lolth but if that part of their military strength suddenly collapses, unless they go for a god who is also very liberal with giving divine power (e.g. Bane or Cyric) half their cities would fall to duergar or illithids or beholders in minimal time.

Loosing their main diety may be a net gain anyway, because Lolth promoted and enjoyed conflict/infighting/betrayals in Drow society. If this can be reduced, then more resources would go towards other projects.

Anyway, I did not look into story of Early Access, but on Reddit I found an info that the main antagonist will be the Dead Three.

Also, J. K. Simmons voicing a character is cool.

[babalou1]

Which is great, because the evil for the sake of evil way they've been portrayed as in the past lacked any nuance. The Drow realizing that Lolth is a major asshole even to them that's hindering their race is one of the more logical avenues to explore. Though personally I'd like an exploration of the other Dark Seldarine gods as well, with perhaps entire cities further away from Menzoberranzan turning to Selvetarm or Kiaransalee instead.

I think book wise the change really started in Archmage (Homecoming Book 1 [Book 31]) and steadily progressed until The Boundless (Generations book 3 [Book 36]). Book 39 comes out in July, I believe. Lloth's Warrior (The way of the Drow Book 3 [Book 39])

"The drow city of Menzoberranzan has fallen into discontent, sowed by the growing legend of the one who escaped: Drizzt Do’Urden. Now many of the drow—including the city’s most powerful house, led by the Matron Mother—are questioning the influence of the Spider Queen and the very history of the city’s founding.

What secrets lie ahead? The drow are determined to find out, and they’ll stop at nothing to dismantle the very structure they’ve called home.

As social tensions rise and the demands for answers boom, a fight erupts between the adherents of Lolth’s chaotic evil and those drow who demand more, demand better. In the Underdark there are only absolutes and no compromise will be found. With winner taking all, Drizzt Do’Urden cannot and will not remain on the sidelines anymore. This will be an uprising Menzoberranzan will never forget, and the rest of the Forgotten Realms won’t be able to look away.

I think I was 12 when I stumbled upon Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms and they remained a guilty pleasure into my now 40s lol.

I'd say that was always the case though. Drow priestesses did not really believe in the benevolence of Lolth. It was the only way to climb to the top of their society so they followed that way. In most cases shown in both novels and other lore, their faith was pragmatic instead of transcedental; Lolth exists, she wields power in their society, she is the best path to power. And while capricious about bestowing her divine power, Lolth did bestow such power massively; very few other societies have as many or as powerful divine casters as the drow do and that is a major component of their military might. Sure there are a few insane priestesses who are absolutely devoted but they are very much in the minority and that has been the consistent depiction since way back in the D modules and the earlier Salvatore novels with the FR drow becoming increasingly more pragmatic as time went by.
So yes, the drow could try to live without Lolth but if that part of their military strength suddenly collapses, unless they go for a god who is also very liberal with giving divine power (e.g. Bane or Cyric) half their cities would fall to duergar or illithids or beholders in minimal time.

After the Time of Troubles, the gods HAVE to change if their followers change, otherwise they loose their power. So if Lloth's faithful give her the big fuck you for being evil, in order for her to keep her power, should would have to change. But there is a whole city of good drow to the far north called the Avendrow who worship Eilistraee. So theres plenty (good and bad) willing to step in and fill the Deity void if the civil war ends with the Drow turning their backs on Lloth's ways

[Aliven]

I can point you to that very same description and how its beginning two sentences that talked about Drow being evil was deliberately removed in an errata, together with the entire The darkness of the Drow box in the corner. And also the errata that removed their evil alignment. And the earlier bit from SCAG mentioned by @quras before.

There was never a problem with making PC drow character, even in previous editions. You could just be a rebel or something.

I did read both SCAG and Player handbook regarding drow. Nowhere it is mentioned that folk have other view of them than in previous editions. Drizzt was walking and being Drizzt in 3rd edition also.

It is mentioned that drow are "infamous for their cruelty, evilness and drive to dominate" in SCAG. Then it mentions that Drizzt did influence some folks to see Drows as not all evil race but still, seeing Drow in the surface world is rare and a cause for an alarm.

Sure, i can see like in ten cities or in more civilized and sophisticated places drow would not be killed outright but just treated as lepper till he proved himself. But hamlets, villages, small towns? Nah.

It is basically copy and paste from previous editions of the DnD.

[Makabreska]

Well, been binging Forgotten Realms lore on YouTube in preparation for the release, now it is time to watch Honor Among Thieves. :v

[Nymrohd]

Damn the city looks gorgeous. Cannot wait to get to Sorcerous Sundries. Look at that stained glass lighting effect.

[Tyris Flare]

How awesome would it be to go into the Elfsong and get this