No Dragonflight numbers from Blizzard means??

[Relapses]

Beyond your bald assertion, what evidence do you have of that? The scores seem to correlate well with how past WoW expansions have been accepted by the players.

Read through the last 13 pages to find out!

...or don't. I'm tired of repeating myself.

[Osmeric]

Read through the last 13 pages to find out!

...or don't. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Sorry, I didn't see any argument you made that had any value. So I assume you're just doing more bullshittery here, pretending you actually did that.

[Relapses]

Sorry, I didn't see any argument you made that had any value. So I assume you're just doing more bullshittery here, pretending you actually did that.

"I don't like the argument therefore if I pretend it isn't being made then I don't have to engage with it!" -arguing on the internet 101

[Osmeric]

"I don't like the argument therefore if I pretend it isn't being made then I don't have to engage with it!" -arguing on the internet 101

It's not my job to make your argument for you, it's your job to make your argument. That includes pointing me to exactly what your argument is, not leaving me to guess.

Anyway, in the spirit of Hitchen's Razor, "what is asserted without specificity can be dismissed without specificity."

[Relapses]

It's not my job to make your argument for you, it's your job to make your argument. That includes pointing me to exactly what your argument is, not leaving me to guess.

Anyway, in the spirit of Hitchen's Razor, "what is asserted without specificity can be dismissed without specificity."

...you'd have a point if there weren't pages upon pages of posts where I went into meticulous detail as to why I feel the way I do. You weren't satisfied with my answer the first time I gave it to you, why would anything change simply because you asked it again a dozen pages later?

[Drusin]

No one is buying or starting new.

Doesn't mean

Revenue is down.

All hail the mighty token.

Also, I'm amused this is still being talked about lol.

[VMSmith]

...you'd have a point if there weren't pages upon pages of posts where I went into meticulous detail as to why I feel the way I do. You weren't satisfied with my answer the first time I gave it to you, why would anything change simply because you asked it again a dozen pages later?

You've only made the assertion that "there's a ton of bad faith negative reviews", without any evidence other than "I read them". When presented with bad faith positive reviews your response was that the negative ones "massively" outweighed the positive ones. Another poster then actually went through and found that the ratio of negative to positive reviews was about 1.6:1, hardly "massively".

You've offered no evidence of your position that "metacritic = bad" other than your personal assertion that this, indeed, the case. And when confronted with conflicting evidence you've ignored it completely.

The fact that many WoW expansions were extremely poorly received and yet have positive reviews on Metacritic would seem to counter your position alone, regardless of the fact that you've offered no evidence other than the typical "trust me, bro".

[Relapses]

You've only made the assertion that "there's a ton of bad faith negative reviews", without any evidence other than "I read them". When presented with bad faith positive reviews your response was that the negative ones "massively" outweighed the positive ones. Another poster then actually went through and found that the ratio of negative to positive reviews was about 1.6:1, hardly "massively".

You've offered no evidence of your position that "metacritic = bad" other than your personal assertion that this, indeed, the case. And when confronted with conflicting evidence you've ignored it completely.

The fact that many WoW expansions were extremely poorly received and yet have positive reviews on Metacritic would seem to counter your position alone, regardless of the fact that you've offered no evidence other than the typical "trust me, bro".

"2:1 negative reviews on a site that allows the people posting hopelessly cynical, awful reviews to fucking upvote negative opinions and downvote positive ones is fair and balanced." -you, apparently

[Osmeric]

"2:1 negative reviews on a site that allows the people posting hopelessly cynical, awful reviews to fucking upvote negative opinions and downvote positive ones is fair and balanced." -you, apparently

Why are negative reviews somehow suspect but positive reviews are not?

[Relapses]

Why are negative reviews somehow suspect but positive reviews are not?

How many different ways can I say that both positive and negative reviews are meaningless? The only thing that matters is that the existence of the ability to review bomb outright invalidates any statistical relevance the website may have.

[Osmeric]

How many different ways can I say that both positive and negative reviews are meaningless? The only thing that matters is that the existence of the ability to review bomb outright invalidates any statistical relevance the website may have.

Why should review bombing invalidate? After all, both sides can review bomb. And the results seem to track the general opinion of the expansions.

Sorry, your argument falls flat.

[Inoculate]

1.) metacritic = bad
2.) review aggregate sites = not very good ways to discover the pulse of the community
3.) person who uses review aggregate site to support position "{x title} is being received poorly" = bad faith actor
4.) metacritic = bad

I agree with you on everything but number 4. Mb

[Relapses]

Why should review bombing invalidate? After all, both sides can review bomb. And the results seem to track the general opinion of the expansions.

Sorry, your argument falls flat.

Both sides don't review bomb, though. The only people who give a shit about review bombing are the people doing the review bombing. The proof is the fact that the people doing the review bombing are the ones downvoting positive reviews and upvoting the negative ones. Circlejerking in either direction is kind of stupid and I'm not denying that positivity circlejerking occurs, I just think that it has absolutely no impact on WoW's metacritic aggregate audience rating and pretending that it does is kind of a bad faith take in and of itself.

[VMSmith]

"2:1 negative reviews on a site that allows the people posting hopelessly cynical, awful reviews to fucking upvote negative opinions and downvote positive ones is fair and balanced." -you, apparently

It was 1.6:1, which I very clearly laid out for you.

Your persistence in hyperbole makes your argument suspect.

I'll mention yet again ... MoP was received incredibly negatively by the community and was reviled by many players ... yet, it has a very positive Metacritic score. Why is it not "review bombed" and Dragonflight is? Warlords of Draenor is currently reviled by players, and yet it also has a favorable 87 score, what's the difference between it and DF? Because it's more current? Battle for Azeroth is fairly recent and it's a decent 79. Even Shadowlands, absolutely hated, has an 83 score.

Why is Dragonflight the only "review bombed" expansion, if people just love to hate on WoW?

[Kallisto]

Which is why the metacritic user review score is 3.6. Because all those reviews are good.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...t/user-reviews

Looking at most of the negs it's basically when brought down to it's basic level "WoW is the game that is WoW and has always been." effectively giving in a low review for being the game it has been since Vanilla.

[Relapses]

It was 1.6:1, which I very clearly laid out for you.

Your persistence in hyperbole makes your argument suspect.

I'll mention yet again ... MoP was received incredibly negatively by the community and was reviled by many players ... yet, it has a very positive Metacritic score. Why is it not "review bombed" and Dragonflight is? Warlords of Draenor is currently reviled by players, and yet it also has a favorable 87 score, what's the difference between it and DF? Because it's more current? Battle for Azeroth is fairly recent and it's a decent 79. Even Shadowlands, absolutely hated, has an 83 score.

Why is Dragonflight the only "review bombed" expansion, if people just love to hate on WoW?

The surge in negativity circlejerking on metacritic is relatively new. It started with TLoU2 and it's just become an even louder and more inclusive negativity echo chamber since.

edit: Also, we're talking about user reviews. Why would you mention critic reviews when literally the entire impetus of this conversation of this discussion is user reviews?

[Cazer]

It was 1.6:1, which I very clearly laid out for you.

Your persistence in hyperbole makes your argument suspect.

I'll mention yet again ... MoP was received incredibly negatively by the community and was reviled by many players ... yet, it has a very positive Metacritic score. Why is it not "review bombed" and Dragonflight is? Warlords of Draenor is currently reviled by players, and yet it also has a favorable 87 score, what's the difference between it and DF? Because it's more current? Battle for Azeroth is fairly recent and it's a decent 79. Even Shadowlands, absolutely hated, has an 83 score.

Why is Dragonflight the only "review bombed" expansion, if people just love to hate on WoW?

BfA has a 2.4 and Shadowlands has a 2.8. People are talking about the USER scores not the critic ones.

[Ielenia]

So poor graphics, outdated zones,

Poor graphics on outdated zones is not a valid complaint to make, because those older zones are not part of the expansion. That's like hearing you are a bad neighbor because the person who lives a few houses down the block likes to smoke weed and leaves their trash scattered on the sidewalk in front of their houses.

and lack of options in character creation

What "lack of options"? No character creation options have been removed. In fact, more options were added.

can’t be criticized? What criticisms are allowable?

Oh, perhaps if one is going to criticize the expansion, then criticize the expansion.

[VMSmith]

edit: Also, we're talking about user reviews. Why would you mention critic reviews when literally the entire impetus of this conversation of this discussion is user reviews?

BfA has a 2.4 and Shadowlands has a 2.8. People are talking about the USER scores not the critic ones.

Whoops, my mistake. I'll cop to that particular error.

eta - So Dragonflight is being user reviewed higher than both BfA and SL? Ok, that makes sense since I would agree that it is better than those two. It's also lower than MoP and Legion, which I again agree with. Even now looking at the correct scores I see nothing to disagree with, as the "circlejerk" scores of both negativity and positivity mostly cancel each other out and you end up with a pretty accurate score that represents all the non-"circlejerk" scores.

eta - I'll also note that you both completely ignored everything else about that post and glommed onto the one thing that you were right about, which, as it turned out, had nothing to do with the discussion (my bad, oops). Relapses is still misrepresenting the ratio and failing to produce any evidence of their assertions.

[MoanaLisa]

Why should review bombing invalidate? After all, both sides can review bomb. And the results seem to track the general opinion of the expansions.

Sorry, your argument falls flat.

Review bombing results in lots of reviews that are either 100 (5 stars) or 0 (0 stars) depending on what the site rating system is that's being aggregated. Metacritic is fine for critic reviews but is often wildly skewed for user reviews and significant review bombing corrupts the aggregated number. As well, Metacritic only offers first impression reviews generally and for video games with patches, content updates and significant content added over time the score becomes less and less attached to reality. It may average out in the end but it doesn't have to and the rating is heavily weighted toward launch, not the quality of the title after time has passed. Beware of any product on any review site with a plethora of Worse/Best (0/5 star) reviews. They are not to be trusted since those kinds of reviews are evidence of significant review bombing.

Personally, for video games, I ignore most aggregation sites. It's easier to get a sense of a title by logging onto Twitch and YouTube and catching someone playing the game. People who believe that review sites are good guides to whether or not they will particularly enjoy something (or that something is good or bad) often are not getting good informed opinions.

Never mind the many times when I've seen thousands of user reviews on Metacritic and other sites days before the thing in question is even out; another sign that review bombing is in progress.