M+ season 1 compared to previous S1's

[Caprias]

personally i feel like it should have stayed at 15s for vault and 20 for those that want a change but that's for another topic. i really dislike thundering, that a lone can brick you key if some1 gets square while running back but cant make it to the grp its a wipe most often then not. its not fun.


its the first seasonal afix iv'e seen that punishes the grp for some1 dieing and its a trend that i hope dosent continue

That is not how it works, if someone died the group can still full clear with the remaining debuffs and if someone comes running back with 100y (or even less i think) his debuff also doesn't count.

[Tech614]

personally i feel like it should have stayed at 15s for vault and 20 for those that want a change but that's for another topic. i really dislike thundering, that a lone can brick you key if some1 gets square while running back but cant make it to the grp its a wipe most often then not. its not fun.


its the first seasonal afix iv'e seen that punishes the grp for some1 dieing and its a trend that i hope dosent continue

Don't get me wrong, Thundering is a shit affix but you literally have no idea how it works if you think someone being dead or running back affects it.

[Gurbz]

Don't get me wrong, Thundering is a shit affix but you literally have no idea how it works if you think someone being dead or running back affects it.

Tell that to my group that wiped in the library room of Temple because the debuff applied to a person running back who was at the entrance of the room while the rest of the group was at the ramp going down. No way he could reach us in time, and we didn't realize he had even gotten the debuff because of course it wouldn't apply on someone running back. So yeah its rare, but it can happen.

[Tech614]

Tell that to my group that wiped in the library room of Temple because the debuff applied to a person running back who was at the entrance of the room while the rest of the group was at the ramp going down. No way he could reach us in time, and we didn't realize he had even gotten the debuff because of course it wouldn't apply on someone running back. So yeah its rare, but it can happen.

This is called player error, not a game issue. Like I said thundering is a shit affix but it literally does not apply if a person is more than 100 yards away and if they are within 100 yards they have a whole 15 fucking seconds to get to the group and clear how long does it take you to move 100 yards?

There is a huge difference between not liking an affix and blaming player failures on the affix. Almost no one likes thundering it's annoying I fully agree, but it is still player error 99% of the time the stun go's off especially after they adjusted tanks to always be negative.

[Armael]

He said they didn't know the running back guy had gotten it, so they wouldn't have then moved towards him (backtracking) to help clear it, which maybe could of been possible in 15 seconds.

[Tech614]

He said they didn't know the running back guy had gotten it, so they wouldn't have then moved towards him (backtracking) to help clear it, which maybe could of been possible in 15 seconds.

There is no maybe, the dude alone could of got to them in 15 seconds without anyone meeting him half way. If only there was thundering debuff icons on your party frames to never have trouble "knowing" who has it. Oh wait there is, even in the default UI!

[Armael]

It takes more than 15 seconds to get to the ramp they were at from the start of library (bottom of ramp there), but nice try.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I've gotten it on the flying dragon in RLP before and died during the flight lol.


It's just an embarrassing affix all around. Very happy they are dropping seasonals, one less thing for them to try and balance.

[Tech614]

It takes more than 15 seconds to get to the ramp they were at from the start of library (bottom of ramp there), but nice try.

Which would be more than 100 yards. They weren't that far apart. Do you understand how long it takes to run 100 yards in the game? Does it take you 20 seconds to run 100 yards? Average wow player right here and you wonder why they constantly complain about tuning. This dude really believes home boy was a mile away from a poster than can't even look at party frames to know who has thundering on them.

Thundering is a shit affix, and the most shit thing about it is people blaming their own failures on the said shit affix. Anything that punishes other players that badly because someone else was stupid is mechanically bad in a dungeon setting.

[Ludek]

This is called player error, not a game issue. Like I said thundering is a shit affix but it literally does not apply if a person is more than 100 yards away and if they are within 100 yards they have a whole 15 fucking seconds to get to the group and clear how long does it take you to move 100 yards?

There is a huge difference between not liking an affix and blaming player failures on the affix. Almost no one likes thundering it's annoying I fully agree, but it is still player error 99% of the time the stun go's off especially after they adjusted tanks to always be negative.

Tbh I could belive in that story, kinda, very much depending on circumstances.

Thundering trigger radius seems to ignore walls, and since Temple is pretty small and packed map, if you are very unlucky you could get impossible to clear mark - most notably on the trash before third boss, if fighting them very close to the gate, if someone released he would be in range of getting the mark, despite having to run all the way back with gate closed.

Saw that happening couple of times in the beginning of the season, so maybe Blizz fixed it already.

[thunderdragon2]

That is not how it works, if someone died the group can still full clear with the remaining debuffs and if someone comes running back with 100y (or even less i think) his debuff also doesn't count.

no if ur in a certain range it dose count im talking about when some1 runs back and the timer expires when they are 10-15 yards away

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Don't get me wrong, Thundering is a shit affix but you literally have no idea how it works if you think someone being dead or running back affects it.

i dont think, i know as its happened to my group including myself multiple times

[Lordofbelbol]

Don't get me wrong, Thundering is a shit affix but you literally have no idea how it works if you think someone being dead or running back affects it.

His comment is bound to happen, as people im mmo-champion always comment on things they experience 5% of

[Squigglyo]

The biggest change is that the player pool has grown.

Before, +15 was the gear cap.

+16 to +20 was for the people who wanted KSH or pushing rating or getting teleports.
Therefore, the player pool after +15 was 'better'. No one there was there just for gear.
Which removed a large portion of the 'ok' to 'plain bad' players.
There was a HUGE difference playing a +15 and playing a +16. The groups/players/experience was just better, easier even.
You could pug +16 to +20 with reasonable success.


Now, +20 is the cap for gear.
Its also the goal for KSH and Teleports.

There is no level range that has the players just looking for gear and a leve range with 'better players pushing higher' until AFTER 20.
And by that point, you just wouldnt pug.
So now, pugging anything from a +2 all the way to a +20, you get a mix of players who are pushing rating and players just looking for gear.
THey are 2 completly different types of players with huge differences in skills.


Last season, getting KSH and Teleports was fun.
This season, its a nightmare. At no point during the push for KSH and Teleports do you reach the level where the 'non skilled' players are weeded out.



This season would have been 100% more enjoyable, if +15 was the cap on gear. Even if +16 and up still gave the crafting mats, at last then +17s and up would be 'for pushing' and not 'for gear'

[Lord Pebbleton]

Gear increasing to +20 is not a bonus, it's a nerf. In Shadowlands you could run +15s and hope to get mythic raid quality upgrades from your vault, which allowed you to improve gear bit by bit. Now you either run 20s, or you are losing out on upgrades.

That said, I do not like it. Some dungeons feel impossibly hard, while others feel trivial. There is an absolute overbloat of mechanics, with 3-4 different swirlies on some bosses (+ thundering). Speaking of thundering, it's bad, really bad. The general consensus seems to be that you should just clear it asap, before boss mechanics push players away. An affix that you would rather skip is not a good affix.
Also some dungeons still have the Spires of Ascension issue, where if two mobs randomly target you with their abilities at the same time on a fortified week, you die instantly. At least in Shadowlands I had podtender if that happened. Here I just fall on my face.

I am not having fun.

[kranur]

Affixes are just garbage overall ... there is no fun in having 4 different things spawning 4 different pools of shit at the same time. Same with the healer cancer that was last week. It's simply frustrating to the point of certain roles simply pass on it on given weeks. That's what shit design looks like.

[Nzx]

Lots of people here basically saying M+ is bad because they're not good enough to deal with slightly difficult mechanics. It's not bad, you're just hitting your skill ceiling. You're supposed to fail sometimes, and this game needs more skill-based delineation, not less.

[Epicawesomestmaximus]

There is no maybe, the dude alone could of got to them in 15 seconds without anyone meeting him half way. If only there was thundering debuff icons on your party frames to never have trouble "knowing" who has it. Oh wait there is, even in the default UI!

Have you…played a dk? lmao

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M+ conceptually is a really neat idea but this xpac so far it feels like total dogshit. Everything is annoying. It’s not “hard” I just don’t want to do it. Reeks of artificial difficulty having layered movement mechanics be virtually every fight. Not insurmountable or ragequit worthy but just god damn annoying. And I am firmly in the camp of NOT reusing old xpac dungeons in current m+ “seasons,” which is also stupid. We have time walking, leave old shit there. The whole thing needs to be redesigned because refarming the same gear is not fun. Ridiculous mechanics that all essentially do the same thing, force movement, is not fun. Getting All bracers in the vault every week is not fun. Idk about you guys but I just cannot get drops this xpac at all. Got to 385 ilvl pretty far above pace with the xpac launch but since then it’s just been repeats of the same 3 pieces, no good raid or m+ drops on my main. Idk if they changed something but getting gear has been absurdly unlucky for me this go around so it’s a big turn off. Gone at least 4 entire dungeons with 0 loot multiple times.

[netherflame]

I like thundering as a concept. But it's just not impactful enough. The buff should be longer and stronger (and less frequent to make up for that) so you could actually try to use it in your pulls. As it is I simply don't care, yeah I try to keep it as long as possible but if someone runs into me and it drops immediately I just shrug and move on with my day.

The easy change to thundering is the buff extends 15 seconds when you clear it, for the 5th person their buff extends when there is no viable match because that is what is considered "clear" for them.

[Nymrohd]

Still better than prideful. Not a big fan of the dungeons. Of the four S1s I'd rank it third. Legion wins for the novelty, BfA had a great dungeon pool and infected was a much more interesting affix, then DF and SL last cause prideful was awful.

[MrLachyG]

I've gotten it on the flying dragon in RLP before and died during the flight lol.


It's just an embarrassing affix all around. Very happy they are dropping seasonals, one less thing for them to try and balance.

I mean in that instance you would hope that the other 4 people would clear theirs. But yeah when it overlaps with bullshit like volcanic or quaking or boss mechanics then it can get very dicey indeed