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  1. #1

    What if off-tanking was more than taunt swapping?

    What if there were “support” classes/specs that could handle off-tanking for taunt swaps and then also play a support role in downtime providing buffs to the raid?

  2. #2
    Bearcat spec never forget what they took from you.

  3. #3
    It's an mmo-champ ass take to say tanks while not being the active tank aren't contributing to the group. Still can optimize your dps, still can use raid cds like darkness or rally or amz to help out, still can interrupt the list go's on and on.

    The better question is why you think tanks need more on their plate to begin with when they already have the normal responsibilities on a dps while having to survive and time taunts properly.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    What if there were “support” classes/specs that could handle off-tanking for taunt swaps and then also play a support role in downtime providing buffs to the raid?
    euuuh i have set up my balance druid to do that. ill do not last long. But most of the time enough to ress a tank in pugs. or give the main tanks a second or 2 to do a/their/the thing.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The better question is why you think tanks need more on their plate to begin with when they already have the normal responsibilities on a dps while having to survive and time taunts properly.
    I dunno...I've seen a whole lot of tanks indicate that raid tanking is usually boring, and frequently while there are often mechanics that mostly affect the tanks, there are a a lot of encounter mechanics that don't target tanks at all too.

    Now to be clear, I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. I don't necessarily think that a) tanks need a 'support' role while off-tanking or b) that we need 'support' specs that can off-tank.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    It's an mmo-champ ass take to say tanks while not being the active tank aren't contributing to the group. Still can optimize your dps, still can use raid cds like darkness or rally or amz to help out, still can interrupt the list go's on and on.

    The better question is why you think tanks need more on their plate to begin with when they already have the normal responsibilities on a dps while having to survive and time taunts properly.
    I still think its lame design to have tanks taunt swap. The whole "provide extra dps" is also shitty the second your tank cannot generate equal threat to you. I was lucky to play a bear tank and could shift to cat to dps in my old mythic guild because my co-tank couldnt do enough threat to stay ahead of me between two swaps, any fight where i needed to stay bear form i had to hold back damage.

    Lots more fun to both have your things to tank IMO.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    What if there were “support” classes/specs that could handle off-tanking for taunt swaps and then also play a support role in downtime providing buffs to the raid?
    When was the last time you actually raided? "Off-Tank" isn't really a thing in WoW anymore, you need two full tanks for most raid encounters.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    I still think its lame design to have tanks taunt swap. The whole "provide extra dps" is also shitty the second your tank cannot generate equal threat to you. I was lucky to play a bear tank and could shift to cat to dps in my old mythic guild because my co-tank couldnt do enough threat to stay ahead of me between two swaps, any fight where i needed to stay bear form i had to hold back damage.

    Lots more fun to both have your things to tank IMO.
    If your tank can't hold threat off your dps they are trolling and/or bad. Taunt literally gives you a window of boosted threat to throw a few big dps dumps into and it's a non factor even if your dps is higher. This is a common complaint when your co tank doesn't understand how to play, you never see this at higher end play for a reason.

    I'm also fine with fights where both tanks are actively tanking though.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    If your tank can't hold threat off your dps they are trolling and/or bad. Taunt literally gives you a window of boosted threat to throw a few big dps dumps into and it's a non factor even if your dps is higher. This is a common complaint when your co tank doesn't understand how to play.

    I'm also fine with fights where both tanks are actively tanking though.
    You're misreading. The other tank couldn't keep up with the Dreyen, not the DPS.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I dunno...I've seen a whole lot of tanks indicate that raid tanking is usually boring, and frequently while there are often mechanics that mostly affect the tanks, there are a a lot of encounter mechanics that don't target tanks at all too.

    Now to be clear, I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. I don't necessarily think that a) tanks need a 'support' role while off-tanking or b) that we need 'support' specs that can off-tank.
    Generally the tanks that find raid tanking boring are because their single target dps rotation is boring. VDH and Prot War are probably the worst offenders this xpac with pretty mindless and boring ST rotations. This is more of an issue with spec design than role design though, as things like brewmaster and prot pally are usually fun to play in a raid because they simply have more interesting button rotations than others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're misreading. The other tank couldn't keep up with the Dreyen, not the DPS.
    You're misreading if you think me referring to tank dps is talking about actual DPS pulling threat. /golfclap on the whole misreading thing.

    Let me give you an example to help you out, in the final seasons of SL BDK ST dps was by far and away ahead of what I mained which was brewmaster. But I have a brain enough to fit 3 kegsmashes into the taunt boost window so even with his much higher dps he never pulled threat back off of me.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-03-13 at 04:38 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    What if there were “support” classes/specs that could handle off-tanking for taunt swaps and then also play a support role in downtime providing buffs to the raid?
    An arms warrior can taunt in, pop retaliation and survive at least 5 sec worth of blows in a pinch, and can do that every 1,5 min or so, sounds like that is what you're looking for. Because if you need anything more... attentive, well, you might as well just use a full tank rather than pretend we're talking about off-tanking.
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  12. #12
    Coven of Shivarra in Antorus was like this, Asara (shadow boss) was tanked by any dps with taunt.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    What if there were “support” classes/specs that could handle off-tanking for taunt swaps and then also play a support role in downtime providing buffs to the raid?
    We used to be able to achieve something like it back in the days where you could cross-specc in the same build but nowadays, both tanks has a job delegated to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Bearcat spec never forget what they took from you.
    Prot/Holy were good supports as well, even Prot/Ret could have a good hand in a fight.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurmat View Post
    Coven of Shivarra in Antorus was like this, Asara (shadow boss) was tanked by any dps with taunt.
    Demo lock tanked Emperor Vek'Lor in AQ
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  15. #15
    As a prot paladin, I can sacrifice some damage to push out more heals. I do wish we had a straight up dps spender as an option. Most tanks also have plenty of utility they can use so do that.

  16. #16
    Forget the "support role" in WoW. It doesn't work without a redesign so fundamental and so extensive you might as well make a new game.

    What you mean is a DPS that offtanks, which has happened before on occasion but really kind of cuts into a few problem areas - so that's why it's not really done anymore. Asking one role to do its job but ALSO another job is precisely what's been pissing off a lot of tank and healer players as they get bullied into doing more DPS, and of course in this case you're lacking actual class tools so it'd have to be some contrived fight-specific BS which is rarely popular and prone to abuse/bugs.

    ACTUAL "support" in the sense of just providing buffs etc. is a pipe dream that's been floating around for years, but is never, ever going to happen.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    As a prot paladin, I can sacrifice some damage to push out more heals. I do wish we had a straight up dps spender as an option. Most tanks also have plenty of utility they can use so do that.
    They should bring back Gladiator Spec for Warrior, and make one for Paladin called, Templar. 1h/Shield DPS specs with tanking capabilities.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    They should bring back Gladiator Spec for Warrior, and make one for Paladin called, Templar. 1h/Shield DPS specs with tanking capabilities.
    Sure but that's not my issue here; give me a way to convert defense into ST and you make my job as a tank more interesting and more complex and my job when I am offtanking or playing solo so much more fun.
    But yes, there is no reason we cannot have a shield using dps spec.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The better question is why you think tanks need more on their plate to begin with when they already have the normal responsibilities on a dps while having to survive and time taunts properly.
    Not that OP knows what they are talking about, but raid tanking is fucking boring. I tank medium-high keys (23-24) and I can't stand how boring raid tanking is in comparison outside of progression and even during it if there is no real danger. After you kill the boss for the first time it's literally the hardest it will ever get and tanking farm raids is absolutely horrible, upside of that, when you outgear stuff, you can try to solo tank bosses which aren't meant to be solo tanked which makes you innovate but outside of that - I have 0 clue how people remain tanks during farm part of the patch.

    This comes from a "dps main" so it might be just my mindset, but from my personal experience, "dps main" tanks are actually the best tanks because they think like DPS which is crucial for m+.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Not that OP knows what they are talking about, but raid tanking is fucking boring. I tank medium-high keys (23-24) and I can't stand how boring raid tanking is in comparison outside of progression and even during it if there is no real danger. After you kill the boss for the first time it's literally the hardest it will ever get and tanking farm raids is absolutely horrible, upside of that, when you outgear stuff, you can try to solo tank bosses which aren't meant to be solo tanked which makes you innovate but outside of that - I have 0 clue how people remain tanks during farm part of the patch.

    This comes from a "dps main" so it might be just my mindset, but from my personal experience, "dps main" tanks are actually the best tanks because they think like DPS which is crucial for m+.
    And are you tanking Mythic raids?

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