French President Macron Raises Retirement Age by Decree

[Nymrohd]

Life expectancy increases, demographics change and old retirement ages that were likely pushed way down by a populist government in need of an easy win may have to change for the system to remain solvent.

[Forogil]

healthy life expectancy is around 65 years. 15 more years with your life degrading so what?

Neither correct nor relevant.

We aren't talking about the USA.

According to WHO Healthy life expectancy in France was 69.3 years in 2000 (life expectancy was 78.9 years), and has then increased to 72.1 years (in 2019; with life expectancy 82.5).

However, for someone closing in on retirement at e.g., 60 years, the question is more how many (healthy) years left they have - and that has also increased from 18 to 19.7 years during the same time-span compared with the life expectancy increasing from 23 to 25.3 years. So, it isn't just an increase in bad years.

(In the USA it has stagnated and just increased from 65.8 to 66.1 years.)

[Gaidax]

I'm 54 and I think the minimum age for social security benefits should be 70.

Yeah no, I pay social security tax my whole working life and I most certainly would like to make use of it before I croak, especially given the tax is higher than the benift itself for me.

Here the retirement age for males is 67 and that's already higher than it should be. Here life expectancy is 82 years and by the time I retire I more than cover my social security pension and then some from the tax.

I'd actually rather pay more tax then get fucked with even higher retirement age.

[Fugus]

Food for thought, around 2012 the 6 Walton heirs received (Not earned) 2.2 billion per year in dividends. It’s likely gone up since then but assuming it stayed flat that would be 22 billion over 10 years.

Out of that 22 billion, not a single penny of it went to social security. Now if they had any other sources of income they might pay on them but by the rules nothing of that 22 billion goes to social security. And that was only out of 6 individuals. The social security issue could be greatly reduced or eliminated if we addressed issues like that and had the top pull their dead weight.

[PC2]

Macron is being financially responsible and is making sure the government can balance its books in the future, then a bunch of people get angry.

Macron has promoted the pension changes as central to his vision for making the French economy more competitive.

Tax the rich and corporations more, and have that money go towards ensuring future pensions.

But Macron said he wanted the French economy to be more competitive, not less competitive.

[Kaleredar]

Macron is being financially responsible and is making sure the government can balance its books in the future, then a bunch of people get angry.





But Macron said he wanted the French economy to be more competitive, not less competitive.

Rich people and corporations make more than enough money to remain “competitive” at higher rates.

France is a wealthy country with a large population and is important to the European economy. International megacorporations can’t “not afford” to do business in France even at a higher tax burden on them for operating there.

And wringing two more years of labor out of older people in the work force isn’t going to suddenly make France “competitive” if the notion is that it currently isn’t.

[Muzjhath]

Macron is being financially responsible and is making sure the government can balance its books in the future, then a bunch of people get angry.





But Macron said he wanted the French economy to be more competitive, not less competitive.

Giving more money to consumers who'll actually spend it is being more competetive.

[Tentim]

Rich people and corporations make more than enough money to remain “competitive” at higher rates.

France is a wealthy country with a large population and is important to the European economy. International megacorporations can’t “not afford” to do business in France even at a higher tax burden on them for operating there.

And wringing two more years of labor out of older people in the work force isn’t going to suddenly make France “competitive” if the notion is that it currently isn’t.

Then do something... I'm so tired of these " the rich can do it the rich can do it"

If you honestly believed that then rally and actually do something. If not then no... no magical rich man is gonna come and solve all the problems.

[Elegiac]

no magical rich man is gonna come and solve all the problems.

Back at it again with the shit takes, I see. Advocating a more equitable distribution of wealth in society is the exact opposite of wanting "a magical rich man to come in and solve all the problems."

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But Macron said he wanted the French economy to be more competitive, not less competitive.

"I want the economy to be more competitive" is neoliberalese for "I don't want to piss off my wealthy donors and friends."

[PC2]

Rich people and corporations make more than enough money to remain “competitive” at higher rates.

No they don't.

International megacorporations can’t “not afford” to do business in France even at a higher tax burden on them for operating there.

No, the French economy is just one economy, if they put too much burden on the most productive people and organizations then it makes more sense to invest in other places.

And wringing two more years of labor out of older people in the work force isn’t going to suddenly make France “competitive” if the notion is that it currently isn’t.

Yes it will, even small increases in the age of eligibility saves a lot of money that could be used in more productive ways.

[Elder Millennial]

No they don't.

[Edge-]

if they put too much burden on the most productive people

Reminder that rich people are mostly incredibly unproductive individuals, having mostly inherited their wealth usually. And beyond that, simply investing money in something isn't "productivity".

[Skildar]

I think that sums up pretty well what is happening in France. They are forcing this regulation because they don't want to give all the cards to the representatives.
So no dialogue can actually happen and on side is saying "no that is not the way to go in order to step out of this recession, we have to explore alternatives that don't put the burden on consumers that have not changed their attitude and are not responsible for the situation" and the other is saying "well we need more income for the government and we have no valuable recourse and no one has a factual argument to what age should retirement be or even if retirement should worl this way"

[Elder Millennial]

No, the French economy is just one economy, if they put too much burden on the most productive people and organizations then it makes more sense to invest in other places.

The French economy is a really big economy.

If you provide a service, or sell a product in said economy when taxes (ON PROFITS...PROFITS) go up, you won't just "Stop doing business" in it.

Whether you make 5 billion or 2 billion is irrelevant to whether you want or not to participate in that economy because 2 billion is still more than....NOTHING.

You can have TONS OF MONEY or QUITE A BIT MONEY or NO MONEY, if TONS OF MONEY is no longer an option, what's the 2nd best?

[Endus]

The French economy is a really big economy.

If you provide a service, or sell a product in said economy when taxes (ON PROFITS...PROFITS) go up, you won't just "Stop doing business" in it.

Like you note, corporate taxes are levied on profits. You could set a corporate tax rate of 99%, and it will drive precisely zero companies out of business or out of the market. It can't. Anyone arguing otherwise is either completely unaware of how taxes work, or actively choosing to lie to you.

A company pulling out in protest over high taxes is just shooting itself in the foot and choosing to make less money.

[Elegiac]

No, the French economy is just one economy, if they put too much burden on the most productive people

So, the working and middle classes?

Having capital doesn't make you productive.

[NED funded]

You could take all of the wealth from rich people and it still wouldnt be enough to finance pensions. People are wilding about this

[Paranoid Android]

I love the French!!

Macron tries to raise w/o legislation and they protest. BIG Protest!! Not just small here and there.

This was the US and us lazy citizens would whine a little but that's about it.

[LilSaihah]

Seems like a sensible policy decision to me.

[unfilteredJW]

You could take all of the wealth from rich people and it still wouldnt be enough to finance pensions. People are wilding about this

This should be easy to prove. Show your work.