The Blood Elves discussion thread

[Tanaria]

So why are you pretending like you don’t understand what is being said huh? Blizzard put an alliance race on the horde.

It’s not difficult to grasp.

Blizzard put a neutral race on the Horde.

Plenty of stranger things have happened (nelfs on alliance, is one example)

[Mace]

Blizzard put a neutral race on the Horde.

Plenty of stranger things have happened (nelfs on alliance, is one example)

Sigh. I would not have called night elves an alliance race, nor the undead a horde race, not thematically, nor lorewise, even with the pre-sundering empire. Yes, closer to the alliance, but not alliance.

The high elves are an alliance race. Look past the poster, and follow the development. Elves first appear in Warcraft as part of the alliance. both in-game and literature. high elves that look very similar to humans, together making this alliance that have a consistent theme in them.

Try to understand. And don't feign ignorance, or use lore to pretend it is something else.

[Rhlor]

Yes, yes, YES PLEASE! I made a blood elf back in TBC because I LOVED and still love the whole concept of how they embraced/learned to control fel. The fact they have played down that and other aspects of the original BE's is so infuriating.



Except Tauren are light worshippers too so the whole idea of BE's being special because of being the Horde light worshippers isn't really legit unless you start making pedantic inane arguments like "WeLl ThEy AcTuAlLy WoRsHiP tHe SuN!"

They can just as easily take blood elves BACK in the direction of the fel-manipulators people originally fell in love with. Being both pragmatic fel-mages and blood mages as well as light worshippers would be an interesting dichotomy for the race's lore. There is no good reason Void elves should have exclusive aspect to that spark you refer to. (Which is basically just reckless, exploitative, controlling and aggressive cultural tendencies and magic practices and maybe a bit of borderline vampirism)



Glad there's someone out there who shares my views on how Blizzard has handled the Blood Knights and blood elves as a whole. Yes. The Sunwell needs to be destroyed or somehow written so that it no longer is the all-encompassing salvation that it was portrayed as.





They DEFINITELY controlled fel better than other races. The blood elves that turned demonic weren't simply feeding on fel energy. They consumed raw demon blood. Lots of it. And that was a smaller subset than of the Orcs or any race that had messed around with Fel.

Totally agree... give me Felblood elf customization.



You sure use a lot of words when what you should just say "actual blood elf"



No it isn't story development. It's plot regression. The abomination you call a story for the blood elves is disgusting. More people dislike the handling of the blood elves' story than those that like it. The rest just don't care.

You like the idea of blood elves basically ending up as High Elves who got an addiction, went to an AA meeting and accepted a higher power. That's you. That's not good writing. That's cliche, milquetoast, and lacking in intrigue or real conflict.

We don't just want power-hungry elves with dark powers. We want power-hungry elves with chaotic DEMON powers because we love that fel-green light and demon aesthetic damn it. We don't want them going crazy listening to voices of evil beings like weak-minded simpletons.



It's like a dream. People finally echoing the shit I've been saying for nearly A GOD DAMN DECADE. How the hell the dillweeds who wanted Blood elves to be lawful-good got their way is beyond me.



The thing is back when they were released, homophobia as a means of insulting people you don't like was fair game. Blood elves were overpopulated and many playing blood elves were annoying kids and arrogant jerks, which on top of people generally not liking high society rich folk thus making blood elves themselves easy to dislike, all sorta clumped together to make a lot of piles of garbage call blood elves gay.



We... don't like... VOID. Tentacles are fucking lame. Dark blue and black is lame. Blood elves being basically just high elves is LAME. Going insane because Mr. Void whispered to loud at you is just plain stupid and does not give TBC blood elf fans what they want AT ALL. How are you not getting this?!



Beloredorei....? First of all that sounds awful. Second, belore means sun. Not Light. But I get that you could be making it a figurative translation. Children of the Sun is neat. But that means you should be looking for your own little allied race or just rping. Not wanting the lore for be's to remain bastardized at the expense of the fans of actual blood elves as they were intended in their concept art.


Another person preaching my gospel... why haven't we gathered and mobbed Blizz HQ?



Actually, they HAVE lost their personality because their story has evolved. Or more like devolved. Their story regressed into slightly more light worship-focused high elves with no real flavor or difference from high elves. That's ridiculous to think that's good writing to have Blood elves be more or less indistinct. Your profile pic is literally indiscernible from a high elf physically, and you are quoting and agreeing with a guy who has more or less admitted to not caring about blood elves as much as wanting a race of Sun Elves or Light Elves at the expense of those of us who appreciated the personality of actual blood elves.



The Blood elve's current subservient path with the light is an abomination. You should be ashamed to think anything else as a blood elf fan... But at least you acknowledge the badassery of the OG BK's.

And actually... we could technically go back to those darkest days of blood knights siphoning from Naaru. If there turns out to be an Army of the Light invasion with authoritarian Naaru and/or the blood elves lose the Sunwell... blood elves would not have qualms about going back to their old ways if they feel betrayed by the light once again.



(No need to discard the chances of surviving long after Sunwell Plateau. New Felbloods could come into existence to this very day theoretically.)

Your question is valid but I am not sure Arcane and Fel interact quite the same way Light and Void do. Although if they do, you do give an interesting suggestion for a direction Blizz could take the writing.



and Silvermoon discovering Arcane, Light, and fel. (and also blood. But blood magic is similar to fel so it makes sense they'd research both)



Oh, the way you think really does embody everything I hate. The horde needs at least a small bit of villainy in it to keep it interesting and keep some conflict alive. To keep the War in Warcraft. Admittedly so does the Alliance. But I'll take it where I can get it and the Horde is good for it.



Arcane golem powered by fel crystyals...



Says who?



Majority of us? Who says you get to speak for the majority? I miss Kael as well.



I'll listen to him. And if you read any of the posts early in this thread... I am not the only one. MANY agree the way TBC turned out ruined the blood elves' story. Regardless of Graz's unethical treatment of Blizz employees (who admittedly I am biased against, and think they are mostly terrible people who deserve any mistreatment that comes their way) what he says is true.

Beleno sil'aru belore'dorei
If you knew more about the lore of the blood elves you would know that belore'dorei is another name they use to call themselves read blood of highborne and do the quest of heritage armor. blood magic is related to the anima is not fel. Is death magic

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Sigh. I would not have called night elves an alliance race, nor the undead a horde race, not thematically, nor lorewise, even with the pre-sundering empire. Yes, closer to the alliance, but not alliance.

The high elves are an alliance race. Look past the poster, and follow the development. Elves first appear in Warcraft as part of the alliance. both in-game and literature. high elves that look very similar to humans, together making this alliance that have a consistent theme in them.

Try to understand. And don't feign ignorance, or use lore to pretend it is something else.

Mace, I think that the issue is that you keep believing that being Horde or Alliance is an "intrinsic" property. It really is just the affiliation of a group, which could be permanent, or temporary. Malleable.

Blood Elves "are" a Horde race because they are on the Horde, whether they used to be part of the Alliance has little bearing to the discussion beyond being an history lesson.

[Rhlor]

I find your capacity to grasp what people are saying (esp outside the in-game narrative context)… lacking.

I don’t know if you are faking it, playing dumb or actually deceived yourself. Or you actually just don’t know.

You seem too knowledgeable about wow to actually not know. But then if knowledge always meant understanding or wisdom we won’t have different words for them.

Maybe you lack the developers perspective and can’t utilise knowledge of game development and changes to truly understand what we have today and why. Or maybe you just choose to selectively ignore it or worse, mislead in some sort of twisted agenda and loyalty to a fictional faction and race to the extent of ignoring what is infront of you

That you can’t even see what I’m saying or understand it and can only come up with lines like “Quel’thalas has spent more time neutral and on the horde aligned “ than on the alliance (implied) is very telling.

Sigh.


Anyway, the info is there. Try to understand what we are saying before rushing to reply with your knowledge of the in game narrative most of us are aware of here.

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Look Tanaria, the blood elves aren’t going any where soon. Their position on the horde is not under threat and you don’t have to fear blizzard suddenly realising they are alliance themed or any thing like that and will somehow change their future.

I can assure you that blizzard is fully aware of what the blood elves are and wanted them this way ie alliance themed. This is why they are on the horde in that very high elf vein rather than the TFT to classic blood elf direction. Being this way they had guaranteed and ensured their spot there for that is the entire reason they are brought over to that faction.

You don’t have to play dumb or pretend as if this isn’t the alliance taken over to the horde or that you don’t understand what we mean when we say that.

It won’t change their position.

Stop being so insecure about them.

out of the entire history of quelthalas out of 7 thousand was only a member of the alliance for a couple of years during the second war and for a very short period during the third war and ended as far as we know. From tbc to dragonflight, how many years have passed? 18 more or less? Yes, Quelthalas has been part of the horde for longer than alliance. even so, I do not rule out the creation of a new elven empire if new factions are created

[Mace]

Mace, I think that the issue is that you keep believing that being Horde or Alliance is an "intrinsic" property. It really is just the affiliation of a group, which could be permanent, or temporary. Malleable.

Blood Elves "are" a Horde race because they are on the Horde, whether they used to be part of the Alliance has little bearing to the discussion beyond being an history lesson.

It has become that way true. Now it is just an affiliation. It's different from before don't you agree? Either approach has its merits and downsides.

Blood elves are now a horde race for sure, but older players should be able to recognise what we mean by they are an alliance race on the hirde. Meaning alliance themed.

Not saying you or Tanaria are wrong at all. Just trying to help her see what is meant and I understand she feels threatened as if such claims might result in the blood elves returning to the alliance, I'm trying to assure her they won't.

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out of the entire history of quelthalas out of 7 thousand was only a member of the alliance for a couple of years during the second war and for a very short period during the third war and ended as far as we know. From tbc to dragonflight, how many years have passed? 18 more or less? Yes, Quelthalas has been part of the horde for longer than alliance. even so, I do not rule out the creation of a new elven empire if new factions are created

Well aware of the in game narrative in its umpteenth iteration and development over the years bith in the lore and in the development cycle.

When people refer to the blood elves being an alliance race, they are speaking with respect to them as high elves originally created on, for and part of the alliance when it had a consistent theme.


Those days are now gone, and lire introduced and modified to place them where they are. Before you quote lore at me, I am fully aware of, have you tried to understand what we mean? This is not based on an in game narrative or perspective.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It has become that way true. Now it is just an affiliation. It's different from before don't you agree? Either approach has its merits and downsides.

Blood elves are now a horde race for sure, but older players should be able to recognise what we mean by they are an alliance race on the hirde. Meaning alliance themed.

Not saying you or Tanaria are wrong at all. Just trying to help her see what is meant and I understand she feels threatened as if such claims might result in the blood elves returning to the alliance, I'm trying to assure her they won't.

That's the wild claim to me, the idea that because they were introduced as part of the alliance in War2 they are "alliance themed" and because that their themes still are pproperty of the alliance because they once were.

It's just a bizarre way of looking at worldbuilding. Blood Elves have their themes, and now they are part of the Horde.

The alliance still has High Elves, still has those War2 elven themes, but even then stuff like Quel'thalas and Silvermoon were not the focus, and the first time we delved on them during War3, all of that was already neutral.

It really is that your framing about what racial and faction themes are is completely off-putting and whatever discussion has been had inevitable ends up getting dragged by such a faulty premise.

[Rhlor]

It has become that way true. Now it is just an affiliation. It's different from before don't you agree? Either approach has its merits and downsides.

Blood elves are now a horde race for sure, but older players should be able to recognise what we mean by they are an alliance race on the hirde. Meaning alliance themed.

Not saying you or Tanaria are wrong at all. Just trying to help her see what is meant and I understand she feels threatened as if such claims might result in the blood elves returning to the alliance, I'm trying to assure her they won't.

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Well aware of the in game narrative in its umpteenth iteration and development over the years bith in the lore and in the development cycle.

When people refer to the blood elves being an alliance race, they are speaking with respect to them as high elves originally created on, for and part of the alliance when it had a consistent theme.


Those days are now gone, and lire introduced and modified to place them where they are. Before you quote lore at me, I am fully aware of, have you tried to understand what we mean? This is not based on an in game narrative or perspective.

yes, originally the high elves were introduced in wc2 as part of the alliance in the same way as lordaeron but now lordaeron is a horde just like quelthalas and a menethil is part of the horde council. as garrosh said time change. in any case the alliance can play with high elves and possibly in the future with blood elves. It is more at the game level you can have in your guild orcs and humans

[Mace]

yes, originally the high elves were introduced in wc2 as part of the alliance in the same way as lordaeron but now lordaeron is a horde just like quelthalas and a menethil is part of the horde council. as garrosh said time change. in any case the alliance can play with high elves and possibly in the future with blood elves. It is more at the game level you can have in your guild orcs and humans

Yes, but Lordaeron and it's people have changed since then. Lordaeron is now ruins from it's alliance time, and the citizens are now undead, in a different state. It's not horde but isn't alliance themed either. Not by the original Warcraft faction themes and hence why they became their own faction.

Blood elves on the other hand, simply got restored to everything they were in the alliance, and yes they've had things added t to them, but it's the same alliance race.. blizzard restored them to similar to what they were in the alliance, unlike what they did for Lordaeron.


The Blood elves, like the Alterac nation, are alliance races that joined the horde.

Because the blood elves join the alliance , and get restored as high elves, they are now a horde race, but we know them also as an alliance race on the horde. The horde theme now changes because of them, it's no longer so distinct from the alliance, as a very alliance race has joined them and remains in them

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That's the wild claim to me, the idea that because they were introduced as part of the alliance in War2 they are "alliance themed" and because that their themes still are pproperty of the alliance because they once were.

It's just a bizarre way of looking at worldbuilding. Blood Elves have their themes, and now they are part of the Horde.

The alliance still has High Elves, still has those War2 elven themes, but even then stuff like Quel'thalas and Silvermoon were not the focus, and the first time we delved on them during War3, all of that was already neutral.

It really is that your framing about what racial and faction themes are is completely off-putting and whatever discussion has been had inevitable ends up getting dragged by such a faulty premise.

By the old warcraft settings, blood elves/high elves etc are all alliance themed. However since the blood elves joined the horde, that theme and distinction has changed .

I'm not sure when you started following the franchise, but to me, coming from the pre WoW warcraft - things are acceptable to be described this way. Besides, any new comer will easily see that blood elves have a lot more in common with alliance races, they only need look at the history of warcraft (not necessarily the lore history), to see that they took an alliance race over.


Is this what the difficulty is about @Tanaria? Not willing to recognise that the blood elves are an alliance race taken over to the horde? I think most people understand what we mean by that, even if they can equivocate about its accuracy by in-game lore definition. Or I should rephrase: current in-game lore.

[The Stormbringer]

Sigh. I would not have called night elves an alliance race, nor the undead a horde race, not thematically, nor lorewise, even with the pre-sundering empire. Yes, closer to the alliance, but not alliance.

The high elves are an alliance race. Look past the poster, and follow the development. Elves first appear in Warcraft as part of the alliance. both in-game and literature. high elves that look very similar to humans, together making this alliance that have a consistent theme in them.

Try to understand. And don't feign ignorance, or use lore to pretend it is something else.

I still like the idea of going back to the drawing board and starting over with four factions, that aren't necessarily hostile to each other. Each would be a local bloc of power on their respective continents.

You have the Sentinels, a combination of Night Elves, Draenei, and Furbolgs. They'd be based primarily in "Night Elf" lands.

There's the New Horde, the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls. Based out of Durotar, the Barrens, Mulgore, etcetera.

On EK in the north, you have the Forsaken, which are composed of the Worgen, the Undead, and the Blood Elves.

Finally, there's the Alliance, who are Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes.

For funsies you could also have neutral factions like Goblins and whatnot.

[Linkedblade]

Imagine getting hybrid belf/NB models at some point

Blood Elf druids, please.

[Al Gorefiend]

Anyone who mains Blood Elf is complacent in the faction imbalance. If Horde doubles Alliance, and 40% of the Horde are blood elves, that would mean Blood Elf players are equal in population to 80% of the entire Alliance.

Blizzard knew what they were doing back in Burning Crusade, when the Alliance doubled the Horde population. The only way to fix the faction imbalance at this point would be to create some adorable chibi weeb race and place it on the Alliance.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

By the old warcraft settings, blood elves/high elves etc are all alliance themed.

This is the problem Mace, you start your argument with a premise that makes no sense to the rest. You can't lynchpin your argument on a premise that isn't as self evident for others as you think it is.

This whole idea that Blood Elves are "alliance themed" just doesn't make any sense, and you have failed to convince anyone of the premise in itself. And all your argumentation is just piled on top of that. It's like you started arguing about planetary gravitation by saying "as you all know, the sun and all planets revolve around the earth, so!--"

You say stuff like "blood elves have a lot more in common with alliance races" as if it meant anything beyond a shared commonality that means little when their politics plant them firmly on the Horde.

If you look at it from in universe, blood elves have been on the Horde for longer than the kingdom of Quel'thalas was ever on the alliance, and while metanarratively high elves were introduced on War2 as part of the alliance, by War3 their identity was being removed from the alliance, and by TFT, moved even futher to stand on its own, separately from the alliance.

You really can't expect for people to take the argument that "the blood elves are an alliance race taken over to the horde" as a logical and rational one. The only way that really makes sense is from an emotional and subjective perspective, which is not what you're trying to do AFAIK.

Seriously Mace, we can't have a discussion if you keep presenting "blood elves are alliance themed" as a self evident argument.

[Rhlor]

Anyone who mains Blood Elf is complacent in the faction imbalance. If Horde doubles Alliance, and 40% of the Horde are blood elves, that would mean Blood Elf players are equal in population to 80% of the entire Alliance.

Blizzard knew what they were doing back in Burning Crusade, when the Alliance doubled the Horde population. The only way to fix the faction imbalance at this point would be to create some adorable chibi weeb race and place it on the Alliance.

you have guild cross faction now

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Except Tauren are light worshippers too so the whole idea of BE's being special because of being the Horde light worshippers isn't really legit unless you start making pedantic inane arguments like "WeLl ThEy AcTuAlLy WoRsHiP tHe SuN!"

Goodness gracious it's like my lore posts on Sunwalker theology are invisible to people.

Sunwalkers do. not. worship. the Light!

Sunwalkers worship the stars, namely the planet (The Earthmother), the moon (Elune), and the sun (An'she). The Tauren believe that the moon and the sun are the two eyes of the Earthmother. The Sunwalkers are a sect of sun worshipping druids who realized that they were only worshipping/calling upon the power of only one of the Earthmother's two eyes, and thus created another sect to balance it out. At no point in the Sunwalker's short story, Bleeding Sun, is the capital L "Light" ever mentioned or implied. The Sunwalkers are not Light worshipping paladins like the Silver Hand and have nothing in common with them theologically. The reason why Sunwalkers are playable as priests and as paladins is because Blizzard wanted to give the Tauren more gameplay options, but couldn't be bothered to create a new class for them, not even new spell effects. Tauren paladins are a gameplay classification, not a lore classification. The worst part is that our one prominent Sunwalker character, Dezco, was put into Silver Hand armor rather than wearing a traditional Tauren outfit or getting a custom outfit, and was shoved underneath a cathedral, so ofcourse normies mistake him for being a Light worshipping Silver Hand paladin when he is not.

[Mace]

I still like the idea of going back to the drawing board and starting over with four factions, that aren't necessarily hostile to each other. Each would be a local bloc of power on their respective continents.

You have the Sentinels, a combination of Night Elves, Draenei, and Furbolgs. They'd be based primarily in "Night Elf" lands.

There's the New Horde, the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls. Based out of Durotar, the Barrens, Mulgore, etcetera.

On EK in the north, you have the Forsaken, which are composed of the Worgen, the Undead, and the Blood Elves.

Finally, there's the Alliance, who are Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes.

For funsies you could also have neutral factions like Goblins and whatnot.

I would agree with this and still maintain what was best for wow was continuing in the WC3 vein. I infinitely prefer 4 factions, and possibly 5 to the two we get that feel so gimmicky.

Once the undead joined, the horde changed, when the blood elves joined, what the alliance and horde were before died, and it came something different.

The night elves and undead joining did not feel like horde and alliance races - so I am surprised that people like Tanaria feign ignorance when comments like "the blood elves are an alliance race" are made.. they know full well what is been said is not that the blood elves are not horde right now and it hearkens back to what the factions originally were when they were far more defined in the warcraft franchise, than what they later became in wow.

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This is the problem Mace, you start your argument with a premise that makes no sense to the rest. You can't lynchpin your argument on a premise that isn't as self evident for others as you think it is.

This whole idea that Blood Elves are "alliance themed" just doesn't make any sense, and you have failed to convince anyone of the premise in itself. And all your argumentation is just piled on top of that. It's like you started arguing about planetary gravitation by saying "as you all know, the sun and all planets revolve around the earth, so!--"

You say stuff like "blood elves have a lot more in common with alliance races" as if it meant anything beyond a shared commonality that means little when their politics plant them firmly on the Horde.

If you look at it from in universe, blood elves have been on the Horde for longer than the kingdom of Quel'thalas was ever on the alliance, and while metanarratively high elves were introduced on War2 as part of the alliance, by War3 their identity was being removed from the alliance, and by TFT, moved even futher to stand on its own, separately from the alliance.

You really can't expect for people to take the argument that "the blood elves are an alliance race taken over to the horde" as a logical and rational one. The only way that really makes sense is from an emotional and subjective perspective, which is not what you're trying to do AFAIK.

Seriously Mace, we can't have a discussion if you keep presenting "blood elves are alliance themed" as a self evident argument.

So are you saying you do not understand what people mean when they say the blodo elves are an allaince race on the horde? I can assure you I am not the only one that says or thinks so and long after I stop posting and on many other forums or discussion boards you will hear the comment being made.


I'm not trying to make any argument, I'm not trying to prove the blood elvs are in the alliance - tha'ts not what is being said here, as they clearly are not currently. I'm trying to help Tanaria, and now possibly yourself understand what people mean when they say that, as Tanaria did not seem to.

The blood elvs are the high elf race, that race is alliance themed - based on the original allinace theme which the race was a part of prior to WoW.

You say stuff like "blood elves have a lot more in common with alliance races" as if it meant anything beyond a shared commonality that means little when their politics plant them firmly on the Horde.

Do we have to be precise again? When we say blood leves have a lot more in common with alliance races, I think thiscommunity knows EXACTLY what is meant by that, having used the same argument so often to persuade others that Nightborne have much more in common with blood elves than night elves despite evidence to the contrary.


Where are the horde ideals and political mandates that the blood elves share with horde races? I have yet to see a "horde manifesto". We all know Blood elves are only aligned with the horde races politically by being members, in fact aligned is more accurate than political, these are just words we use to approximate their arrangements, they don't strictly mean the same in-gmae as they do irl, they share little to nothing with them in almost every area, and far more with the alliance races and faction their race was introduced in as apart of its units in WC2(the pre wow 2.0 alliance).

The two factions back then had thematic cohesion, this off course changes when the alliance blood elves are now aligned "politically" with the horde and remain unchanged - this is what fans mean by it's an alliance race on the horde.

They are not saying the blood elves are part of the alliance.

If you look at it from in universe, blood elves have been on the Horde for longer than the kingdom of Quel'thalas was ever on the alliance, and while metanarratively high elves were introduced on War2 as part of the alliance, by War3 their identity was being removed from the alliance, and by TFT, moved even futher to stand on its own, separately from the alliance.

"If you look at the universe "- you mention, when several times I have made it clear we are not looking at the in-game universe alone nor making this statement based on faction so called "political" alignment within the universe. Several times, because that isn't what we are talking about. High elves were first introduced in WC2 some 25 years ago, but in universe they're over 7,000 years old as a people. I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the two, everyone familiar with this product and it's development history and cycle should be fully aware and know exactly what is meant. Perhaps you were not aware of the alliance and horde in warcraft before WoW TBC.

When we say alliance themed, what else do you think we mean other than how and what they were initially developed and introduced as from that perspective? The context celarly is not in respect to in-game lore that constantly changes.

[Rhlor]

I would agree with this and still maintain what was best for wow was continuing in the WC3 vein. I infinitely prefer 4 factions, and possibly 5 to the two we get that feel so gimmicky.

Once the undead joined, the horde changed, when the blood elves joined, what the alliance and horde were before died, and it came something different.

The night elves and undead joining did not feel like horde and alliance races - so I am surprised that people like Tanaria feign ignorance when comments like "the blood elves are an alliance race" are made.. they know full well what is been said is not that the blood elves are not horde right now and it hearkens back to what the factions originally were when they were far more defined in the warcraft franchise, than what they later became in wow.

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So are you saying you do not understand what people mean when they say the blodo elves are an allaince race on the horde? I can assure you I am not the only one that says or thinks so and long after I stop posting and on many other forums or discussion boards you will hear the comment being made.


I'm not trying to make any argument, I'm not trying to prove the blood elvs are in the alliance - tha'ts not what is being said here, as they clearly are not currently. I'm trying to help Tanaria, and now possibly yourself understand what people mean when they say that, as Tanaria did not seem to.

The blood elvs are the high elf race, that race is alliance themed - based on the original allinace theme which the race was a part of prior to WoW.


Do we have to be precise again? When we say blood leves have a lot more in common with alliance races, I think thiscommunity knows EXACTLY what is meant by that, having used the same argument so often to persuade others that Nightborne have much more in common with blood elves than night elves despite evidence to the contrary.


Where are the horde ideals and political mandates that the blood elves share with horde races? I have yet to see a "horde manifesto". We all know Blood elves are only aligned with the horde races politically by being members, in fact aligned is more accurate than political, these are just words we use to approximate their arrangements, they don't strictly mean the same in-gmae as they do irl, they share little to nothing with them in almost every area, and far more with the alliance races and faction their race was introduced in as apart of its units in WC2(the pre wow 2.0 alliance).

The two factions back then had thematic cohesion, this off course changes when the alliance blood elves are now aligned "politically" with the horde and remain unchanged - this is what fans mean by it's an alliance race on the horde.

They are not saying the blood elves are part of the alliance.


"If you look at the universe "- you mention, when several times I have made it clear we are not looking at the in-game universe alone nor making this statement based on faction so called "political" alignment within the universe. Several times, because that isn't what we are talking about. High elves were first introduced in WC2 some 25 years ago, but in universe they're over 7,000 years old as a people. I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the two, everyone familiar with this product and it's development history and cycle should be fully aware and know exactly what is meant. Perhaps you were not aware of the alliance and horde in warcraft before WoW TBC.

When we say alliance themed, what else do you think we mean other than how and what they were initially developed and introduced as from that perspective? The context celarly is not in respect to in-game lore that constantly changes.

It's true that blood elves were originally an alliance race before wow. but it is also real that during wc3 the blood eves leave the alliance after being betrayed. Regarding the theme, I really don't know what you mean. The goblins and gnomes are very similar in theme, we even have a goblin and gnome marriage. should goblin and gnome form their own faction? What is the theme that makes tauren and forsaken similar? It would not be more natural than the tauren who believe in the same moon goddess and have a strong druidic connection for the night elves to be the same faction. the factions have different elements and I think that new factions could be created. In any case, the alliance has high elves. I don't see what the problem is.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The blood elvs are the high elf race, that race is alliance themed - based on the original allinace theme which the race was a part of prior to WoW.

Mace, the problem of that is that you keep saying it as if self evidently meant anything. It doesn't. "blood elves are alliance themed" as an statement holds no weight, and you've failed to make a case as to why it should.

Do we have to be precise again? When we say blood leves have a lot more in common with alliance races, I think thiscommunity knows EXACTLY what is meant by that, having used the same argument so often to persuade others that Nightborne have much more in common with blood elves than night elves despite evidence to the contrary.

Where are the horde ideals and political mandates that the blood elves share with horde races? I have yet to see a "horde manifesto". We all know Blood elves are only aligned with the horde races politically by being members, in fact aligned is more accurate than political, these are just words we use to approximate their arrangements, they don't strictly mean the same in-gmae as they do irl, they share little to nothing with them in almost every area, and far more with the alliance races and faction their race was introduced in as apart of its units in WC2(the pre wow 2.0 alliance).

The two factions back then had thematic cohesion, this off course changes when the alliance blood elves are now aligned "politically" with the horde and remain unchanged - this is what fans mean by it's an alliance race on the horde.

They are not saying the blood elves are part of the alliance.

Themes have evolved, Mace. To try to make the case that because the themes were one way on the past we have to forever frame them under those parameters is highly reductive. "blood elves are alliance themed" means nothing to the present of how factions are presented and what their themes are now.

"If you look at the universe "- you mention, when several times I have made it clear we are not looking at the in-game universe alone nor making this statement based on faction so called "political" alignment within the universe. Several times, because that isn't what we are talking about. High elves were first introduced in WC2 some 25 years ago, but in universe they're over 7,000 years old as a people. I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the two, everyone familiar with this product and it's development history and cycle should be fully aware and know exactly what is meant. Perhaps you were not aware of the alliance and horde in warcraft before WoW TBC.

When we say alliance themed, what else do you think we mean other than how and what they were initially developed and introduced as from that perspective? The context celarly is not in respect to in-game lore that constantly changes.

And the context in which Blood Elves have existed meta-narratively has also changed! Not because they were introduced as part of the alliance it means they should be forever considered an alliance race. I don't understand why for you is more relevant that they were created as a part of the alliance and were associated with it for 8 years, rather than the fact they have been part of the horde and its narrative for 17 years now!

They have been part of the Horde both in universe and out of it for far longer than they have ever been part of the alliance. The idea that "they are alliance themed" is just so pointless as an argument for any discussion.

How is it relevant? What point does it make?

[Mace]

It's true that blood elves were originally an alliance race before wow. but it is also real that during wc3 the blood eves leave the alliance after being betrayed. Regarding the theme, I really don't know what you mean. The goblins and gnomes are very similar in theme, we even have a goblin and gnome marriage. should goblin and gnome form their own faction? What is the theme that makes tauren and forsaken similar? It would not be more natural than the tauren who believe in the same moon goddess and have a strong druidic connection for the night elves to be the same faction. the factions have different elements and I think that new factions could be created. In any case, the alliance has high elves. I don't see what the problem is.

Sigh Rhlor, yes, blood elves were originally in the alliance, that is why people say they are an alliance race given to the horde. There is no second or third meaning.

They are not saying that they are actually in the alliance. That's not what they mean by high elves being an alliance race. Humans went over to the horde in Wc2, humans are still an alliance race whether on the horde or alliance - that's what people mean. Same with high elves.


This is a name thing. Just trying to help you see what people mean by it, so you don't get into a huff and puffle, even if it isn't logical to you. We are seldom precisely logical about anything. Let alone something that changes and turns around so much as warcraft. Hope this helps.

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And the context in which Blood Elves have existed meta-narratively has also changed! Not because they were introduced as part of the alliance it means they should be forever considered an alliance race. I don't understand why for you is more relevant that they were created as a part of the alliance and were associated with it for 8 years, rather than the fact they have been part of the horde and its narrative for 17 years now!

It's not that it's more relevant or less, it's the context with which the statement is made it's that simple. Some people still regard horde and alliance by their original pre-TBC identities, and make reference form that basis. Perhaps because they are older, perhaps because it was the only time the two factions were truly iconic, I'm just saying that's what we mean when we say that.

No one questioned that the horde now is changed, or that blood elves are in the horde, but whether you agree with them sticking to original boundaries, or not, for better or worse, that's just what they mean.

[Rhlor]

Sigh Rhlor, yes, blood elves were originally in the alliance, that is why people say they are an alliance race given to the horde. There is no second or third meaning.

They are not saying that they are actually in the alliance. That's not what they mean by high elves being an alliance race. Humans went over to the horde in Wc2, humans are still an alliance race whether on the horde or alliance - that's what people mean. Same with high elves.


This is a name thing. Just trying to help you see what people mean by it, so you don't get into a huff and puffle, even if it isn't logical to you. We are seldom precisely logical about anything. Let alone something that changes and turns around so much as warcraft. Hope this helps.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not that it's more relevant or less, it's the context with which the statement is made it's that simple. Some people still regard horde and alliance by their original pre-TBC identities, and make reference form that basis. Perhaps because they are older, perhaps because it was the only time the two factions were truly iconic, I'm just saying that's what we mean when we say that.

No one questioned that the horde now is changed, or that blood elves are in the horde, but whether you agree with them sticking to original boundaries, or not, for better or worse, that's just what they mean.

blood elves are not an alliance race they were an alliance race.
but I think that the customization so that the blood elves become a playable race of the alliance again is possible, they just have to add green eyes.