How big will diablo 4 release be?

[Mamut]

That said, once PoE does finally click it's so hard to go back to these baby aRPG's. Though I can respect these baby aRPG's have more mass appeal. That's not a judgement on the players, it's just like the nascent form of what I'd call the current gold standard aRPG's.

I play PoE for few years now and when I go play Diablo or Last Epoch I don't wanna feel like playing another PoE. Obviously D4 is not aimed at hardcore PoE fans and never was. And thats a good thing. Not every arpg need to be done with 3rd party tools in mind to tell you how to optimize build.
Sometimes i just want something engaging but simplier than PoE. Not every game have to be the same.

[rhorle]

Considering the PC version has been consolified, I expect it to have a shorter hayday than D3

Why would consoles hurt the lifespan of the game? Diablo 3 was brought to Xbox, Playstation, and Switch.

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Mate, core systems are core.

Right. You think you know the entire game from only experiencing part of it. Have you ever played World of Warcraft? Because the experience changes between end-game and leveling even when you have the same "core mechanics". Strange, right? It sounds like you just don't like the game despite you saying you do.

[chiddie]

I mean grinding non stop is what aRPG's are about homie.

That said, I don't see this game holding an audience for long because it's not that fun. We'll see if the masses disagree tho!

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I dono, I feel like PoE takes a few seasons of sucking before it clicks and it's definitely not for everyone. Even if you copy builds verbatim though, the sheer amount of options it presents you make it feel like you never have to play the same character again.

The vast majority of people never even make it to a beginner boss like Sirus, so it's not like they need meta builds.

That said, once PoE does finally click it's so hard to go back to these baby aRPG's. Though I can respect these baby aRPG's have more mass appeal. That's not a judgement on the players, it's just like the nascent form of what I'd call the current gold standard aRPG's.

Diablo’s big point of force (and it’s directly tied with Blizzard biggest point of force) is simplifying stuff while also keeping it complex to a degree and make the games accessible to virtually everyone with the well know motto “easy to learn, (relatively) hard to master”.

Diablo is not PoE and has NOT to be PoE. If they enter that complexity race arena they will lose for sure. The core of the game is to keep everything simple and manageable to an extent without having a PHD in maths to calculate optimal builds for everything. I agree this is something many ARPG players do like and I also do like it but only to an extent because my time to play is limited and I don’t want to waste it theorycrafting for ages before and during my sessions.

The paragon board, even if it clearly seems a washed down version of PoE board, seems complex enough already. Remember, again, Diablo target audience is not PoE target audience.

Blasters won’t probably play it too long but you can’t tune games for blasters only.

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Why would consoles hurt the lifespan of the game? Diablo 3 was brought to Xbox, Playstation, and Switch.

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Right. You think you know the entire game from only experiencing part of it. Have you ever played World of Warcraft? Because the experience changes between end-game and leveling even when you have the same "core mechanics". Strange, right? It sounds like you just don't like the game despite you saying you do.

But even without taking WoW, just look at D3 leveling experience compared to D3 endgame experience. Core mechanics are more or less the same but it feels completely different.

[Goat7]

Yeah I simply dont play POE because of the insane looking skill tree. I saw that and was like NOPE. So I dont know much about it.

I really see D4 being a overall success.

[Daedius]

Plan to play D4 mostly on my Steam Deck chilling.

[BrokenRavens]

This looks like a pretty fair review to me.

I have decided to not buy it until it goes on big sale. And then only “maybe”.
Turning Diablo into a MMO(ish) type game is just such a huge red flag to me, I just can’t see myself playing it.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Commercial success. Objectively decent but not revolutionary. Critically panned based on the critic's principles or thirst for clout.

[Gaidax]

Core systems are core systems. That does not change. You can see every single crafting mat and what you can do at crafting 'vendors.' The availability is, again, hollow. People's attention is gonna drift when the same zero depth clicks persist, and they will.

If there was a wow demo for just redridge, guess what, core systems are still there. You'll get talents and see all talent options. You'll either get mounts or know they exist. Crafting is what you see is what you get. There isn't much more than that.

Brah, you don't get to down M.Raz in Redridge. "Core systems are there" - what you see is just a tiny bit of what the game actually has, there are huge paragon trees you can mix, we did not see any sets, there are way more legendaries than the codex suggests and we most certainly did not see how actual endgame looks like and what seasonal gameplay is like.

The judging WoW by Redridge comment is spot on - owaw you seen that there is gold and vendors, AH and newbie dung in SW, guess you know everything now? What kind of silly take is that?

[Sylv_]

Why would consoles hurt the lifespan of the game? Diablo 3 was brought to Xbox, Playstation, and Switch.

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Right. You think you know the entire game from only experiencing part of it. Have you ever played World of Warcraft? Because the experience changes between end-game and leveling even when you have the same "core mechanics". Strange, right? It sounds like you just don't like the game despite you saying you do.

Yeah, i used to world first raid. i understand things. CORE IS CORE. Crafting aint changing. Loot system aint changing. nothing is changing from a1-endgame. more access to do the SAME things. CORE IS CORE. What don't you understand about that?

Game is fun if you don't use your brain to think.

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Brah, you don't get to down M.Raz in Redridge. "Core systems are there" - what you see is just a tiny bit of what the game actually has, there are huge paragon trees you can mix, we did not see any sets, there are way more legendaries than the codex suggests and we most certainly did not see how actual endgame looks like and what seasonal gameplay is like.

The judging WoW by Redridge comment is spot on - owaw you seen that there is gold and vendors, AH and newbie dung in SW, guess you know everything now? What kind of silly take is that?

You'll see a dungeon cause to get to red, you're gonna do it. you'll extrapolate that dungeons have bosses that do different things. those things will be different and can change abilities, mechanics etc, inside a dungeon -> raid. ras, sure, you'll never see a mythic fight but if you have two braincells to rub together then you can actually extrapolate. you've seen crafting, you can imagine how end game crafting is gonna go. you've seen dungeons and cant figure out raids. you've seen enough core content in wow to understand how it's gonna go.

the core systems are in D4 and won't be changing. it doesn't matter if you get set items or other bonuses. that just changes how a class plays and is not at all what im talking about.

everything is shallow with no depth or complexity whatsoever, and that feels AWFUL. Use your thinker for just a moment and that critical output might just show you more truths of not just D4.

As mathil said, the second you think about this game, you're gonna be disappointed.

I'm personally gonna enjoy a playthrough and when I get bored, that's it. That's all this game will be good for, just like D3. A solid week and it's boring.

[exochaft]

the core systems are in D4 and won't be changing. it doesn't matter if you get set items or other bonuses. that just changes how a class plays and is not at all what im talking about.

everything is shallow with no depth or complexity whatsoever, and that feels AWFUL. Use your thinker for just a moment and that critical output might just show you more truths of not just D4.

As mathil said, the second you think about this game, you're gonna be disappointed.

I'm personally gonna enjoy a playthrough and when I get bored, that's it. That's all this game will be good for, just like D3. A solid week and it's boring.

I certainly agree that what we're getting in the beta now is likely set in stone, based upon the previous closed beta and the F&F alpha. The best way I can describe it is that the F&F alpha had a lot more systems and ideas in the game, and a lot of them were either refined or removed by the time the closed beta came around. Even between the closed beta and this recent open beta, nothing's really been added but there's definitely some systems that got refined or removed.

At the heart of it, the core of the game hasn't changed much through the phases, although they may look a little different. I can sympathize that the minute you think about the game you may be disappointed, especially if you saw what was in some of the previous testing phases... short version: there was some actually very interesting ideas that got cut either because they didn't have time to develop them or couldn't iterate on them well enough (we'll never know the answer unless the come out and say it). I imagine the game people had in their heads was likely represented best during the F&F alpha phase, but whether that sort of game could feasibly be released or not is another story. Personally, it's rather sad some of the systems that got removed didn't get made, especially the crafting side of things.

Whenever anyone's asked me what D4 is like, I tell them it's like a combination of D2 and D3 but ultimately a PC version of D:Immoral without P2W microtransactions. I wouldn't be surprised if there was overlap between the D4 and D:Immortal team (or at least bouncing ideas off of each other), as many of the systems and ideas are nearly 1:1 in terms of what they do in both games. Prime example is the legendary power/crafting system, as they're extremely similar in both games.

Whenever someone whose a fan of a game like PoE or similar AARP asks me about D4, I tell them that it's probably safe to hold off until more content gets added via seasons or patches. This current phase of beta testing doesn't show the end game at all, but it's honestly like a hybrid of D2 grinding and D3 scalability with some extra 'mandatory' content (such as socket adding currency only being available from certain end-game content) that wasn't really fleshed out well. Don't get me wrong, the feel of the combat is at least on par with what Blizz tends to deliver... which is great! However, Blizz tends to really struggle when it comes to engaging end-game content. If one doesn't like D2 or D3 end-game content, chances are you won't be sticking around for D4 end-game content as it likely will be upon release. My personal opinion is either they planned it this way because they want people to enjoy the campaign leveling on release, or they didn't have enough time to add everything they wanted by the proposed release date.

Regardless, I only preordered the game because my friends wanted my opinion of this phase of the beta compared to what there was previously... and I've liquidated so much WoW gold into my B.net balance that I have nothing else to use it on. Otherwise, I don't think I would feel that usual urge to play D4 on launch day, not because it's necessarily bad but its depth on launch will probably be a bit underwhelming compared to other games already on the market.

[The Oblivion]

Wrong. Lost Diablark 4 is an MMO, complete with chores, weekly raid bosses, MMOplayer hubs and all that cancer shit.

There is no reason to play this over Lost Ark since they're just copying all the cancerous shit that makes LA unenjoyable in the first place. Atleast LA doesnt demand 70 (lol) dollaridoos to play

lost ark is pay to win and has as much in common with POE and WoW as it does d4 lmfao


D4 will break sales records, calling it now. Likely the biggest game launch in many years and will retain hundreds of thousands of players for atleast 1+ year like D3 launch

[rhorle]

Yeah, i used to world first raid. i understand things. CORE IS CORE. Crafting aint changing. Loot system aint changing. nothing is changing from a1-endgame. more access to do the SAME things. CORE IS CORE. What don't you understand about that?

I don't think you understand things as much as you think you do. Gameplay changes in WoW despite the core being the same. The same will be true to Diablo 4 as you interact with all the game systems that aren't all available in the beta or act 1.

How a class plays is interacting with the core systems, right? ? How can it not? It is strange that you dismiss it as not what you are talking about when it is a core part of the game and always has been for Diablo. Given how critical you are of the game it is strange that you earlier stated that you like the game.

[Sylv_]

I don't think you understand things as much as you think you do. Gameplay changes in WoW despite the core being the same. The same will be true to Diablo 4 as you interact with all the game systems that aren't all available in the beta or act 1.

How a class plays is interacting with the core systems, right? ? How can it not? It is strange that you dismiss it as not what you are talking about when it is a core part of the game and always has been for Diablo. Given how critical you are of the game it is strange that you earlier stated that you like the game.

So I can't be critical of something I enjoy, and that I had hopes for?
Gameplay does not change in wow, it just develops into a full picture as you unlock abilities. Act 1 = all abilities nearly unlocked. Gameplay won't change much but keep kidding yourself. What game systems that aren't available are there? Paragon? That's one system that is passive points. It's not going to change core systems. Quests are gonna be quests. Dungeon runs are gonna be dungeon runs: get key, use 2 things to unlock door, fill bar. Modified greater rift keys.

Mate, you can't be this myopic. What you see in the beta are the core system of the game and they are going to advance, but they're core. It's what the game is built from.

Yikes.

[beanman12345]

Plan to play D4 mostly on my Steam Deck chilling.

Played quite a bit on my Deck this weekend, runs great!

[Sylv_]

I certainly agree that what we're getting in the beta now is likely set in stone, based upon the previous closed beta and the F&F alpha. The best way I can describe it is that the F&F alpha had a lot more systems and ideas in the game, and a lot of them were either refined or removed by the time the closed beta came around. Even between the closed beta and this recent open beta, nothing's really been added but there's definitely some systems that got refined or removed.

At the heart of it, the core of the game hasn't changed much through the phases, although they may look a little different. I can sympathize that the minute you think about the game you may be disappointed, especially if you saw what was in some of the previous testing phases... short version: there was some actually very interesting ideas that got cut either because they didn't have time to develop them or couldn't iterate on them well enough (we'll never know the answer unless the come out and say it). I imagine the game people had in their heads was likely represented best during the F&F alpha phase, but whether that sort of game could feasibly be released or not is another story. Personally, it's rather sad some of the systems that got removed didn't get made, especially the crafting side of things.

Whenever anyone's asked me what D4 is like, I tell them it's like a combination of D2 and D3 but ultimately a PC version of D:Immoral without P2W microtransactions. I wouldn't be surprised if there was overlap between the D4 and D:Immortal team (or at least bouncing ideas off of each other), as many of the systems and ideas are nearly 1:1 in terms of what they do in both games. Prime example is the legendary power/crafting system, as they're extremely similar in both games.

Whenever someone whose a fan of a game like PoE or similar AARP asks me about D4, I tell them that it's probably safe to hold off until more content gets added via seasons or patches. This current phase of beta testing doesn't show the end game at all, but it's honestly like a hybrid of D2 grinding and D3 scalability with some extra 'mandatory' content (such as socket adding currency only being available from certain end-game content) that wasn't really fleshed out well. Don't get me wrong, the feel of the combat is at least on par with what Blizz tends to deliver... which is great! However, Blizz tends to really struggle when it comes to engaging end-game content. If one doesn't like D2 or D3 end-game content, chances are you won't be sticking around for D4 end-game content as it likely will be upon release. My personal opinion is either they planned it this way because they want people to enjoy the campaign leveling on release, or they didn't have enough time to add everything they wanted by the proposed release date.

Regardless, I only preordered the game because my friends wanted my opinion of this phase of the beta compared to what there was previously... and I've liquidated so much WoW gold into my B.net balance that I have nothing else to use it on. Otherwise, I don't think I would feel that usual urge to play D4 on launch day, not because it's necessarily bad but its depth on launch will probably be a bit underwhelming compared to other games already on the market.

I'm with you on what you said. It's what I feel, and it's super accurate, but not what I feel based on emotion but rather critical thought on what I've experienced.

Definitely, D4 is way too much like Immortal, but it's more like D3.5 with aspects of immortal, no P2W. People just can't see the core systems of what we're getting which is kinda frustrating. They're hoping there's a bunch of secret tech coming that the game unlocks in later acts. They're wrong. What we've seen is what we're gonna get.

Rifts have been converted into modded keystones that we'll run. Etc.

Yeah, the only reason I have D4 is cause I made giga gold in dragonflight and maxed my balance out a few times. Gifted the game too.
Still gonna play, but it's more for story than it is about anything else, cause quite simply, there is not much else.

I'm a fan of most ARPGs but uh, Lost Ark was quite terrible. Getting some vibes from LA into D4 as well. If a company could finally take all the good parts of all the games and make a solid base of core systems that were balanced, fun, creative. They'd be winning in the market, kinda like wow has been the mmo to rule all.

Just wish people could see a bit further than their myopic dopamine hits.

[rhorle]

So I can't be critical of something I enjoy, and that I had hopes for?

You can be. However you are super critical of something you've only played 1/4th of. Why would you play something you passionately dislike? It really does sound like you don't like any of Diablo as what you keep saying is a problem and will lead to the game being quickly dead is what the franchise has always been about.

Loot is a core system of Diablo 4. Paragon will interact with builds, gear will interact. What about the seasonal events and "invasions"? I'm not lacking foresight at all. The amusing part is you are the one that is myopic and can't see beyond the little bit you played in the EA beta.

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Just wish people could see a bit further than their myopic dopamine hits.

Dude, you just got done saying you are only playing the game for the dopamine hits of the story because you think the game is trash.

[Flame6]

I think you earn too many "normal" skill tree points. I think we'll see a ton of similar builds because you can only choose 6 abilities. Once you get them maxed, you still have a LOT of points to play with and not very many choices to make.

The paragon tree looks crazy though and it'll be neat to see what folks do there, but the basic skill tree is so slim that there's not enough choice outside of which of the six abilities you actually take

[Asrialol]

Considering the poor reception the beta has gotten - probably not very big.

[The Oblivion]

Considering the poor reception the beta has gotten - probably not very big.

the tiny minority of POE whiners wont stop d4 from breaking sales records

[Tojara]

Considering the poor reception the beta has gotten - probably not very big.

Um, source?

If you go to places that frequently trash the game, all you're going to see is people bashing the game. The duality of the internet is that things are fucking amazing, or it's just fucking trash. Pretty much anywhere you look has this approach to critiquing the game, and rarely do you get much constructive criticism. A lot of people go into the game expecting it to be bad and hoping for it to be bad. The inverse is true as well. I've seen plenty of PoE streamers say that the game has some worrying aspects, all the while praising a lot of the things about the game as well. While a certain subset of them can't say anything good about the game at all, without saying something equally negative (it's almost like Chris Wilson is standing to the side of them with a gun).

Some people want D2 remade and if it's not D2 remade it's awful, I see plenty of hate towards the game because of this. Some people want the game to be on par, if not more complicated than PoE and it's not and plenty of people hate on it because of that. Some people hate the open world concept and compare it to Lost Ark or Diablo Immortal. I think these comparisons are a bit more fair, but this game is clearly not either of those games either.

There are loads of things to critique about this game mind you. I've seen people complain about things that can be fixed by going into options and changing some settings, that they were blissfully unaware of, or having problems with the game based on the class they chose to play on opening weekend. Boy oh boy, did the opinions of my friends change based on whether they played Barbarian versus Rogue/Sorc.

I hate to break it to most people in this thread but the game is going to be a commercial success whether you like it or not, lol. Whether the game is a good game post release is entirely up to the developers though. D3 was a commercial success as well and despite what I consider poor post game support, still had loads of people return for every season (even if the seasons were bare bones and lasted just a couple days).

The D4 release will be huge. The question is, when they do S1 a couple months later will that be as big? Or the bigger question, how will S2 be towards the end of 2023? Personally I just want the game to be really good post launch so that I can jump between both PoE and D4 for the immediate future. There's no reason if you're an ARPG fan to want the game to be bad just because. In an ideal world I play both games every 3-4 months for 2-3 weeks each.