Will Diablo 4 be different?

[VoidDrake]

I loved playing DS2 , but the minimal updates it had just caused me to stop the grind all together.

I wanted to know what sort of game D4 will be? It will have update contents, freshly new features and will be supported more than D3? Or will it be "get to a certain level and grind till you gain the last levels?'

[Fencers]

It'll be supported as much as Diablo 3 during its major lifespan in all likelihood.

[Arikara]

D4 will be a game that looks pretty and has good polish, but no depth. Amuse yourself with it for a month or two then get bored.

Oh, sure, they'll run it as a live service game, but it will be shallow and meaningless.

[mrgreenthump]

Yes absolutely, there is no overlay map for example.

From my PoV this build we played lacks the Blizzard polish. It's a bit janky and the UI is awful, has actually regressed from D3.. didn't think that was possible. It's really hard to say what they will do in the long run. I do hope they succeed though, cause more games that are good is better for us. I was maybe on some hopium for what D4 could be, but honestly this Beta at least it was fun and am looking forward to playing it at launch/first season if it doesn't overlap with Last Epoch events.

I guess in the end it all comes down to it's reception. If it's successful and people go ham for the microtransactions it will likely get continued development. But if it falls flat they will likely try again with one expansion, but if that doesn't do too well either, then it's likely dead like D3 was after RoS.

[Edge-]

Yes absolutely, there is no overlay map for example.

Is this confirmed?

Like, some of the design decisions like this and the lack of a proper click to move keybind option are just mind boggling to me. These are like, "Literally, have you ever played an ARPG in your life?" kinds of decisions.

It's a bit janky and the UI is awful

From videos I've seen, tthe UI stands out to me for some reason. It's totally serviceable and functional and everything but...that's it. It's basic as fuck and these are usually the kinds of areas where Blizzard's attention to detail/polish and their money is on display. I get it, still months to launch and updating UI elements isn't exactly a major overhaul if they shipped this with pre-final UI assets and all, but it's just...weirdly unexpected and offputting.

[Ilookfly]

You can bind force move just like in d3

[Edge-]

You can bind force move just like in d3

Yes, but it then doesn't work for things like clicking on NPC's and interactive objects and looting, apparently?

[Biomega]

Also can't bind force move to scrollwheel I think, which is a very popular bind for that.

[mrgreenthump]

Is this confirmed?

Like, some of the design decisions like this and the lack of a proper click to move keybind option are just mind boggling to me. These are like, "Literally, have you ever played an ARPG in your life?" kinds of decisions.



From videos I've seen, tthe UI stands out to me for some reason. It's totally serviceable and functional and everything but...that's it. It's basic as fuck and these are usually the kinds of areas where Blizzard's attention to detail/polish and their money is on display. I get it, still months to launch and updating UI elements isn't exactly a major overhaul if they shipped this with pre-final UI assets and all, but it's just...weirdly unexpected and offputting.

Well at least in Beta there was no overlay at all nor have we seen comment on that. Nobody said it was coming, but it's one of those things that a competent worker could pull of in an hour of working, so it boggles me why it's not there.

And yeah force move was pretty bad. Also copied PoE there as unlike in D3, you cannot even bind it to your scroll wheel.

And the UI, oh my. Changing your title for example is so bad. You have can't click your title to edit it. There is a separate profile edit button you have to click to even be able to do anything to your profile. This feels like a tryout made this. It's just not there in any way really. The main page itself is pretty useless, sure you see your AP and Health, but those are useless in the long run and you have to look details to see what is what. But even that is just a list you have to scroll down after you chose the right tab after it auto opened the materials tab because you just auto picked a material.

There is no straight key to open rewards, you have to open you map and press W to open the reward pane. Pressing map also something opens the reward pane automatically because you just earned a reward. But you might actually want to get out of a dungeon rather than see a reward. Right click also doesn't zoom out of the dungeons, rather puts a pin on the map. And you have to select the world map from the side. I just don't know how this got through from development from a game that is as big as D4 is. Especially considering that Diablo Immoral had working a rather working UI. Talking Diablo Immoral, it also has a better character creator compared to this. It's pretty bare bones for now at least in the Beta build. You have only 4 faces per gender and frankly at least for my preference none of them looked that good. And couldn't represent me or people I see around me with the creator.

Honestly this might be a bit hopium, but I think this is the actual build influencers got to play earlier. So we might just make noise from a thing that doesn't even exist anymore.. In general though, this might be one of those games that is actually much more worth to pick up later after the launch than during it. The gameplay itself is pretty good afterall and am liking the build differences(at least on Sorc). But remains to be seen what actually happens in end game. For now I'm pretty certain I'll get a few hundred hours out of this game. But dunno yet if much more than that.

- - - Updated - - -

To add.. I probably would as is rather play Last Epoch as fresh again than this version of D4. I'm confident that D4 should be better in the end, but currently how the beta was.. it ain't. But that's not to say D4 was bad. Just Last Epoch is pretty good already, unless a lot of things change on their way to D4 launch. I'd still say LE is 2nd best ARPG out there. For me the best, because PoE has lost it's shine for me. Then again all PoE needs to do is make a good league again and it's all good.

[infinitemeridian]

The game is fun, but it still feels half baked. Kind of impressive that this beta has so many issues given the game has been in development for 6 years.

The UI is bad (and ugly) - baffling decisions like delay on hover for item tooltips, no map overlay, way too zoomed in, not enough inventory space, no separate space for gems, can't see health / resource numbers, chat on the right-hand side, etc. The skill system is somehow even more shallow than D3's (though the presentation is better) there's not enough abilities to choose from, and you get way too many legendaries (unclear if this is due to it being beta). On top of this, the open world aspect is super overblown - sure, you can sometimes see other players, but other than that there's really not much different than D3's world. The dungeons are too long and pretty boring visually - though I thought the bosses were a step up from D3 already, but I was playing bow rogue, so melee I hear is a different story.

It overall feels like a game in early stages still - like we're getting half of what the skill tree should be, the MMO aspects are still being worked on (LFG, clan features, economy like an AH, etc.). Maybe it's just an early build and they're way ahead, but I doubt it. On top of that the game has terrible performance (see all the issues with memory being reported) and I don't trust modern Blizz to have the game in stable state for the first couple weeks where you don't get constant rubber banding, invisible walls, login queues, etc.

I still had a lot of fun with it - nothing hits quite like Diablo's combat, and the itemization seems a bit better than D3's so far. The art design, tone and graphics are definitely the best in this genre, but it feels like too much of the game and the work Blizzard has done was focused on that. Look at all their blogposts and marketing, it's all "Return to darkness" this and that. Ok great, that should have been the focus of the opening reveal, but let it speak for itself outside of that. I want to know more about end-game activities, seasonal content and post-launch support, paragon boards, etc. The game has a good base, but for a $70 minimum price tag compared to what else is on the market? Absolutely not and I don't think it will reach that value for another year - and that's assuming they actually improve the overall game with QoL updates, more depth, and actually fun and interesting content instead of just the boring seasonal model that D3 had.

[mrgreenthump]

The game is fun, but it still feels half baked. Kind of impressive that this beta has so many issues given the game has been in development for 6 years.

The UI is bad (and ugly) - baffling decisions like delay on hover for item tooltips, no map overlay, way too zoomed in, not enough inventory space, no separate space for gems, can't see health / resource numbers, chat on the right-hand side, etc. The skill system is somehow even more shallow than D3's (though the presentation is better) there's not enough abilities to choose from, and you get way too many legendaries (unclear if this is due to it being beta). On top of this, the open world aspect is super overblown - sure, you can sometimes see other players, but other than that there's really not much different than D3's world. The dungeons are too long and pretty boring visually - though I thought the bosses were a step up from D3 already, but I was playing bow rogue, so melee I hear is a different story.

It overall feels like a game in early stages still - like we're getting half of what the skill tree should be, the MMO aspects are still being worked on (LFG, clan features, economy like an AH, etc.). Maybe it's just an early build and they're way ahead, but I doubt it. On top of that the game has terrible performance (see all the issues with memory being reported) and I don't trust modern Blizz to have the game in stable state for the first couple weeks where you don't get constant rubber banding, invisible walls, login queues, etc.

I still had a lot of fun with it - nothing hits quite like Diablo's combat, and the itemization seems a bit better than D3's so far. The art design, tone and graphics are definitely the best in this genre, but it feels like too much of the game and the work Blizzard has done was focused on that. Look at all their blogposts and marketing, it's all "Return to darkness" this and that. Ok great, that should have been the focus of the opening reveal, but let it speak for itself outside of that. I want to know more about end-game activities, seasonal content and post-launch support, paragon boards, etc. The game has a good base, but for a $70 minimum price tag compared to what else is on the market? Absolutely not and I don't think it will reach that value for another year - and that's assuming they actually improve the overall game with QoL updates, more depth, and actually fun and interesting content instead of just the boring seasonal model that D3 had.

Yeah I think that's a quite decent way to put it. It's a good base to build on, but man is there much to do still. I do think this is actually the old build from the closed beta months back. But still there is a lot to be done.

[Mmid]

I dont really see the fuzz about the UI. Coming from WoW and being extremely particular about my UI, I found D4s UI both immersive and functional. Compared to games like Lost Ark and Final Fantasy which just has the generic interfaces, you actually have some authentic textures in D4 that matches the atmosphere in the game. I also like that the overlay map doesnt exist, and hope that they never implement it. Reason being you just end up looking at a map the whole time instead of looking at the world and its details which they worked hard to design. If it existed I would have to enable it, and that would ruin the immersion. Its abit like addons in WoW. Your gimping yourself if you dont use them, but the game might have been interesting without them.

And clearly the UI is designed with console in mind. I usually hate that because it often becomes a compromise for PC users with bad functionality, the D4 UI is probably abit like that, but still one of the best console/PC UIs I have seen. Think ESO for example, which has an awful UI for PC users.

Combat felt very smooth

[tikcol]

To me all that matters is if I'm getting a game that is just a mix of PoE and Lost Ark or if I'm getting something different or an improvement of both of those. On its own or as a mix between the two. Because if it's the former then I'll just go play those games instead.

I'd say that's the worst mistake Blizzard can make.

[xskarma]

I wanted to know what sort of game D4 will be? It will have update contents, freshly new features and will be supported more than D3? Or will it be "get to a certain level and grind till you gain the last levels?'

We don't know really. There is no testing of the end game content, nor of the season content that Blizz has in mind, but not revealed anything about.

But, we know these things are or will be there. The seasons have a part that you can pay for, so they are a source of income and a reason for Blizz to make sure the long term health of the game is in order. You can bet there will be an expansion cause D4 has seen quite some hype and there seem to have been a ton of preorders, which means it's easy to get an expansion greenlit. So in terms of content, the game will be supported for YEARS.

You can argue or doomsay about the quality of the content, but we don't know beyond guessing based on what we saw from JUST 1 act and 1 zone. And as D3 showed the first zone is not indicative at ALL of end game content or how the game will look and play years later after an expansion.


If you have time, play the free open beta next weekend. All classes will be available and you can see the first part of leveling and story. Blizz will undoubtedly do more of an expose on the end game content and seasons as the release approaches (they have said they will talk about it in some dev talk thing, I believe) but there's usually no real replacement for actually doing something, and this Open Beta is all the chance we will get for that, so use it!

[Nymrohd]

I loved playing DS2 , but the minimal updates it had just caused me to stop the grind all together.

I wanted to know what sort of game D4 will be? It will have update contents, freshly new features and will be supported more than D3? Or will it be "get to a certain level and grind till you gain the last levels?'

It will likely have far more update content than D3 because the content will be monetizable through seasons. They have an incentive to keep people coming for every season beyond building brand value.

[mrgreenthump]

If you have time, play the free open beta next weekend. All classes will be available and you can see the first part of leveling and story. Blizz will undoubtedly do more of an expose on the end game content and seasons as the release approaches (they have said they will talk about it in some dev talk thing, I believe) but there's usually no real replacement for actually doing something, and this Open Beta is all the chance we will get for that, so use it!

Think they said deep dive to end game is after Betas. So it's coming.

[Nalam the Venom]

I don’t think this much into things like you guys do.

All i know is i like what i experienced in the beta is enjoyable and i am looking forward to the full release

[infinitemeridian]

I dont really see the fuzz about the UI. Coming from WoW and being extremely particular about my UI, I found D4s UI both immersive and functional. Compared to games like Lost Ark and Final Fantasy which just has the generic interfaces, you actually have some authentic textures in D4 that matches the atmosphere in the game. I also like that the overlay map doesnt exist, and hope that they never implement it. Reason being you just end up looking at a map the whole time instead of looking at the world and its details which they worked hard to design. If it existed I would have to enable it, and that would ruin the immersion. Its abit like addons in WoW. Your gimping yourself if you dont use them, but the game might have been interesting without them.

And clearly the UI is designed with console in mind. I usually hate that because it often becomes a compromise for PC users with bad functionality, the D4 UI is probably abit like that, but still one of the best console/PC UIs I have seen. Think ESO for example, which has an awful UI for PC users.

Combat felt very smooth

The UI is functional. It gets the job done and it certainly works a lot better with a controller than other games. But it still needs a lot of work. As I posted above, some things that should be looked at:

-No map overlay - I don't see why this can't be an option. If you don't want to use it, don't. I don't ever use it but toggling it on and off again in other ARPGs and that is sorely missed in this game when the dungeons are as big as they are. It might be better if we could zoom the minimap in and out (or move it), but you can't.
-Delay on item over for tooltips. - Maybe not a huge deal in a vacuum, but when looking at hundreds of items after a dungeon potentially, it's very frustrating to have to hover, pause, hover, pause.
-Zoom Distance - personal preference, but I find it too zoomed in, it feels claustrophobic and I can't really see what's going in the world. Also makes it harder to appreciate the open world aspect. Further compounds the ui elements since they seem larger and take up more screen real-estate. This further compounds the feeling of playing a mobile game.
Not enough inventory space - You're going to be filling up your entire inventory and then some in one dungeon run potentially. It might be ok if you could hover over items to see the tooltips and compare there (can't remember if this was an option), but I don't think you could. Needs more space, maybe 1.5x at least. Also, a separate tab for gems - having this for aspects, quest items, etc. is nice, seems like a no brainer to not have it for gems. Or move those to a similar screen like the resources like ore, plants, etc.
Chat on right-hand side - I can't think of any game where chat is on the right-hand side. At least give us the option to move it.
No resource numbers - Again, should at least be an option. More info is better than none.
Having to scroll to see all the attributes of some items - Another issue compounded in a game like this.



I'm sure there's even more. Again, the UI is functional - but it has a lot of issues. On top of this, I just find it really ugly. The minimap, the character screen, chat, lots of other areas just lack little stylized details that add character and personality to the game to make it feel like Diablo. I won't even harp on the font, but it needs to change. Not to mention those times at the end of a dungeon where you get a big basic square with text on it that you have to wait to close - crazy. For all the talk of "Return to Darkness" and all that, it's kind of jarring to have most of your UI look like something out of the IOS store.

I don't how a company like Blizzard (which usually has pretty good UI in their games) is completely lacking for this title, especially given how long it has been in development. They also had a blog post on UI, so it's definitely something they want to highlight. A lot of this is pretty basic stuff that should not take too long from a development perspective. Look at how WoW has had UI as a major feature of Dragonflight - the ability to resize, move, etc. almost everything in the UI. This should be in Diablo 4.

[sylenna]

[..]
From videos I've seen, tthe UI stands out to me for some reason. It's totally serviceable and functional and everything but...that's it. It's basic as fuck and these are usually the kinds of areas where Blizzard's attention to detail/polish and their money is on display. I get it, still months to launch and updating UI elements isn't exactly a major overhaul if they shipped this with pre-final UI assets and all, but it's just...weirdly unexpected and offputting.

THAT is exactly what i always think when i see ingame stuff. the generic portraits of the characters as if they were yanked out of morrowind and that grey-in-grey interface which really cannot compete with the great d3 ui.

hopefully it's just a placeholder, blizzard always delivers quality, attention to detail and a complete experience. fingers crossed..

[Kumorii]

I dont really see the fuzz about the UI. Coming from WoW and being extremely particular about my UI, I found D4s UI both immersive and functional. Compared to games like Lost Ark and Final Fantasy which just has the generic interfaces, you actually have some authentic textures in D4 that matches the atmosphere in the game. I also like that the overlay map doesnt exist, and hope that they never implement it. Reason being you just end up looking at a map the whole time instead of looking at the world and its details which they worked hard to design. If it existed I would have to enable it, and that would ruin the immersion. Its abit like addons in WoW. Your gimping yourself if you dont use them, but the game might have been interesting without them.

And clearly the UI is designed with console in mind. I usually hate that because it often becomes a compromise for PC users with bad functionality, the D4 UI is probably abit like that, but still one of the best console/PC UIs I have seen. Think ESO for example, which has an awful UI for PC users.

Combat felt very smooth

Agree on that.
There are some things I nitpick about the UI but other than that I don't understand the big deal.
And the complaints I've heard they seems like minor nitpicks.

Just watched MrLlamaSC's beta feedback where he basically said "The entire UI needs to be scrapped, redo it" and the only critique about it was "Mobile game and font" and "I want an overlay map".
I'm not even sure what "mobile game" even means as a critique. But this apparently is enough critique that the entire UI needs to be trashed.

If I compare Diablo 2, 3 and 4's inventory they all share the exact same layout and ideas. Only difference is D2 having a separate pane for attributes instead of having it in the same inventory pane.