Would Blizzard ever institute support specs?

[Alroxas]

Why does changing party size effect anything? Almost none of the down the line problems have been addressed by the concept. All that is happening here is we are creating another limited role. The OP's post seems to suggest that only 1 would work in raid/parties. How/why though? There are already problems in role ratio problems because of raids vs 5mans with tanks and now you are suggesting a role that has it even worse? Why even add a 21st raid spot? Why wouldn't you just keep the raid size the same? That goes to dungeon size as well...

To be fair, I have those same concerns but the OP was the one who stated the idea to expand the current default party/raid sizes up to accommodate the support class/spec as a way to "balance" the added role.

Quite naturally, you're correct on the downstream issues of how much does support influence/boost the group's damage throughput. Similarly it doesn't address the issue of if support's contributions are additive/multiplicative when you have more than just the 1 support class/spec in the group.

At the base level, the support's contribution must be variable so that it remains competitive at a party level (5 or 6 man party) while staying within acceptable limits in a raid setting. Similar to how some healing spells have the added text of "effects are increased by 100% when in a party setting instead of a raid" except that this would need to be applied to every spell a support class/spec could cast that boosts the throughput of the party on a frequent basis that doesn't incur an exhaustion like effect.

My original response to your post was to fill in the details that the OP presented which might have been missed after so many pages of this topic.

[Triceron]

All valid points but the OP has responded to this in a few ways. First, support would be a mandatory role so it would become a fourth pillar to the holy trinity quad. Second, OP would want the game to expand all group content to accommodate the new role. So parties would be 6 players instead of 5. Raids would be +1 to size to account for the support class.

There are too many issues with the OP'a suggestions, and I don't agree with any of them. That's why I put forth my own thoughts of what I think would work instead.

Changing the raid sizes has worked before, and we even had soft Support roles ever since early vanilla. But having a niche that only requires 1 mandatory support while introducing a new role that arguably many more than just 1-person per raid will want to play, I can't see this working out too well. It messes with the Dungeon and Raid formula in odd ways, where everyone scrambles to have one for a Dungeon, but no one wants more than 1 in any raid.

That's why I think it should be a flexible role, where the raid or dungeon is smoother if you have one, but otherwise it isn't a full Buffer role that is considered necessary.

Otherwise this is literally shifting the 'bring the class' mentality back to raiding, and people generally don't like that. It sucked when your raid lacked a Shaman and they are the only ones to provide Bloodlust, or you couldn't do the one Naxx fight if you didn't have Priests.


Heck, I'd even opt to have Bosses get a stamina system similar to D4, where you can stagger them with enough applied debuffs and put them into a vulnerability state. Supports would be the ones to appy and stack the debuffs, so even if they don't contribute pure DPS, they help push bosses into Staggers.

Raid and Dungeon composition could be tooled towards reaching optimal Stagger, and bosses could be varied enough to have one or two boss fights where 3+ supports would be ideal, otherwise you could make due without having any if you just want to do the fights normally without relying on Staggers at all. It would be interesting if Staggers could help bypass certain phases if stacked correctly, since gaming the system has always been a rewarding part of accomplishing a raid.

[Teriz]

TBF, I said expand raids by +2 and instances +1 to accommodate the new role.

I’ll respond more in depth later.

[Staccato]

I would like a support class, its a pipe dream for me I think in this game in particular. In order to put a TRUE support class you have to sort of reconstruct how combat and groups should go. I do not think WoW would completely commit to this idea. I do think that if "boosting" means anything, we can look to the abilities we have already in game to get an idea of what a support would look like in this game.

[Teriz]

"Shall we bring a shaman for windfury totem?" and Tim who plays an enhancement shaman, Bob who plays an elemental shaman and Terry who plays a resto shaman are all valid options.
"Shall we bring a shaman of this specific support spec for windfury totem?" and now Tim, Bob and Terry are no longer viable options.

That’s happening now in the current game, since only one shaman spec has windfury.

Again, if you truly believe players won't be angry as their specs and/or classes lose their utility and sometimes even iconic abilities, I doubt you have ever talked to a WoW player in your life.

Classes lose iconic abilities all the time. That wouldn’t even be the case here. Instead, the abilities would simply be shifted to another spec in the same class.

That is not the argument you quoted, though. The argument is that your post there was in direct contradiction to your claims that "a new support spec would add complexity" when in actuality it makes the dps, tank and resto specs simpler.

Not at all. You can add complexity to those roles by making their roles better. For example, giving classes more interesting rotations instead of the builder/spend crap the developers have sort of relied on.

[Ielenia]

That’s happening now in the current game, since only one shaman spec has windfury.

Already answered that bit here.

Classes lose iconic abilities all the time.

This is the second time you claimed that, and so far I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that "classes lose iconic abilities all the time."

Instead, the abilities would simply be shifted to another spec in the same class.

Blizzard is not going to give a support spec to every single class in this game. Especially not in one single expansion.

Not at all.

Dude, when you remove responsibilities from a role, you are making it simpler and less complex. There is no 'ifs' or 'buts' about it.

You can add complexity to those roles by making their roles better. For example, giving classes more interesting rotations instead of the builder/spend crap the developers have sort of relied on.

Such as? Can you give ideas? The only other alternative I see is to make it proc-based, which is not really any more complex than builder/spender.

[Teriz]

Already answered that bit here.

So why is it an issue in the theoretical, but not an issue in reality?

This is the second time you claimed that, and so far I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that "classes lose iconic abilities all the time."

Sticking with Shaman, they lost Searing Totem, Rockbiter Weapon, Stoneclaw Totem, Earthliving Weapon, Water Shield, Unleash Elements, Mana Spring Totem, Sentry Totem, etc. over the course of several expansions. It's pretty much the same for every class, and people get over it.

Blizzard is not going to give a support spec to every single class in this game. Especially not in one single expansion.

Never said they would. Maybe about 6 classes should have a support spec.

Dude, when you remove responsibilities from a role, you are making it simpler and less complex. There is no 'ifs' or 'buts' about it.

I disagree. Removing support for DPS simply shifts and refocuses their responsibilities to doing what the player want to do, and that's deal damage and blow enemies up.

Such as? Can you give ideas? The only other alternative I see is to make it proc-based, which is not really any more complex than builder/spender.

I'm not really interested in coming up with new DPS rotations, sorry.

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No. This is likely not going to happen because it would be a logistical nightmare for balancing.

Maybe....

First off, the class would likely be balanced around 5-man groups because if you balance it around raid size, you're going to need to find a way / invent tech that allows their buff modifications to scale differently with raid size.

Second, technically, since it isn't a healer or tank, this means in 5-man groups, it's going to take the slot of 1 of the DPS. This is going to be a bigger problem in the long run as the people who play support roles are likely going to be the same people who play support roles currently (Healers). We already have a shortage of healers and an introduction of a support role is going to exacerbate that problem as you now essentially need two healers per group. In the end, you're going to see longer queue times for DPS.

Make 5-man groups into 6-man groups so that we don't need to lose DPS.

Additionally, where that also causes things to be fucked around is how essential is the support role?

If it's meta, then as a support role, you will have no issues finding a group but as mentioned, you're fucking over all the DPS. If it's not a meta class and is under tuned, you're never getting into a group as a support role.

The support role's job will be to enhance the power of the group. The DPS' job is to deal damage and kill enemies. I don't see how that screws DPS. If anything, support would make DPS' job smoother and easier. Further DPS, will focus more on big numbers and killing enemies instead of having to stop doing their job to assist in support.

[Kithelle]

I kinda doubt it, I mean considering how old the game is and well...Shadow used to be kinda support like, closest the game ever had and now it's just basically another dps spec to make things easier

[Teriz]

There is a big difference in that buffs and debuffs arent currently close to a required mechanic. You need to bring tanks because they mitigate enough dmg to not die to things, you need healers to undo the unavoidable damage to not die to things. So you are proposing some kind of buff/debuff system that some how is required to enable group play? How would that work? "use [random support debuff] on this boss or he 1 shots your group"... like is that the mechanic? Would all support specs just have the same abilities with a different name scribbled on the tooltip?

The buff/debuff system is already in place. Currently it's a system that enhances/reduces player or NPC performance. I'm proposing that Blizzard could ramp that system up and make it more critical in group play. Make it as critical as any other role to the point where if you're not bringing a support spec, you're severely hampering the performance of your party.

If you try to say they are required because of the damage they bring by buffing the raid/party well then you step into a disaster of balance troubles. In 5 mans they need to bring more effective damage then just a dps. Is running 2 going to be viable? Or they only worth it with 2 other dps? Suggesting changing the group size to 6 doesn't change this point it just moves to goal post to a different number. It still needs to be addressed.

No, you increase the party size by 1, so you still have 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 support, and three DPS. The support is there to enhance the other three roles.

What about in raid? If they are balanced around damage amp through debuffs do they just not stack?
Is bringing 2 supports a super waste or does stacking just amplify they raid damage more and more?

Just like in current WoW, buffs wouldn't stack, and you bring 2 support in order to cover buffs that one support might not be able to offer. For example, one support might be buffing damage, while the other support might be buffing healers or the tank. One support might be dealing with debuffs and mitigation, while another might be dealing assisting casters. It all depends.

Do you keep the 5 man ratio of 1 support in raid per 2-3 dps? Or do their buffs apply raid wide? If they apply raid wide, do the buffs DR because they are affecting ~5x the number of players? Or are they just that much more powerful? If the buffs are single target imagine the raid organizing nightmare... every mid level CE guild trying to perfectly manage every support buff to the "right" dps, assuming different supports bring different buffs and they have multiple(because bringing a single PI doesn't warrant a raid spot). God this is nightmare town and its only the beginning, please don't bring supports like this to wow.

In the case of raid-wide buffs, keep them as they are now, and maybe even allow those to remain class wide. However, support could have the ability to briefly boost raid-wide buffs locally. Like a support paladin having a cool down that increases the damage reduction of Divine Shield by an additional percentage for a brief time, or offering a secondary buff that increases the damage of all allies effected by Retribution Aura.

[fwc577]

Make 5-man groups into 6-man groups so that we don't need to lose DPS.



The support role's job will be to enhance the power of the group. The DPS' job is to deal damage and kill enemies. I don't see how that screws DPS. If anything, support would make DPS' job smoother and easier. Further DPS, will focus more on big numbers and killing enemies instead of having to stop doing their job to assist in support.

Adding an additional group member still doesn't resolve the problem. You now need either 4 DPS per group or 3 DPS + Support per group and if Support isn't properly balanced and it's better to take 4 DPS, then nobody is going to ever take the support person.

It also boggles my mind how you can come into this thread and try to make a good faith argument that having 1 less DPS per group doesn't potentially screw over a group. Even if a support role helped pump up DPS numbers, if the meta dictates that 3 DPS is > 2 DPS + Support, a support will never get taken. If it is determined that it's better to have 2 DPS + Support, then that means every group is going to need a dracthyr.

Either way, this becomes a fucking mess for pugs.

Ever play in a pug without a Lust or a B-Rez and realize how quickly things can go to shit?

[schwank05]

I wish they would release a pure support spec, I think Bard would be like this if implemented properly. You only debuff the bosses and buff allies.

[Teriz]

Except what happens in cases where said support isn't in the group? For instance, the another poster recommended limiting the buffs that a support class/spec can do to only within the party they are in, so then it becomes even more a balancing act.

All support specs should be able to do their role regardless of class. Again "Bring the player not the class" would still apply here. Shaman support should be just as viable as Paladin or Hunter support.

Let's say you nerf class X because with buff support class/spec they become OP, but what happens when class X is playing without the benefit of said buff support class/spec? Are you saying that now the game devs would need to balance the game both with and without a support spec? Including the various kinds of group (and solo) activities?

Blizzard would tune accordingly. The situation you're describing occurs now with "tank" healers and certain tanks, where a tank may be over-performing in a raid environment due to the effectiveness of a healing spec. Again, Blizzard balances accordingly.

Really, it's not that simple. How many layers of systems would need to be adjusted or rewritten to accommodate this new reality of 6 member parties (versus the original 5) and how many dungeons/raids would need to be readjusted?

Again, why would you need to significantly adjust old content? Just tune the dungeon to the new party set up, and build new dungeons and raids with this set up in mind.

Moreover, any change of this scope is going to alienate some portion of the population so what do you say to them? Tough luck?

Who would it alienate?

If it was so difficult for Blizzard to add 4 additional slots to the original backpack, how much harder is this idea of yours? Additionally, may I remind folks that unlike FFXI or GW2 or some other MMORPG, WoW wasn't built to include with those functions from the base game. So adding new systems is a lot more difficult than to create a new game with those systems in mind from the start. I'm not saying that it's impossible to code something new in but there are limits on what can be realistically added.

WoW was actually built for this role. It was largely abandoned in WotLK as Blizzard crystalized the trinity, but Vanilla and TBC had what are essentially support specs in Shaman and Paladin classes.

Uh... That's not true. Shamans (and mages and evokers) use heroism for soloing content that might normally require a group to do. For instance, a rare elite on the dragon isles.

Eh, I wouldn't say that's a very common occurrence. You can simply give those specs a new "oh shit" button instead and reserve Heroism for the support spec. Perhaps a version of heroism that only effects the caster for non-support specs?

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Adding an additional group member still doesn't resolve the problem. You now need either 4 DPS per group or 3 DPS + Support per group and if Support isn't properly balanced and it's better to take 4 DPS, then nobody is going to ever take the support person.

If Blizzard implemented this, they would obviously have to properly balance it.

It also boggles my mind how you can come into this thread and try to make a good faith argument that having 1 less DPS per group doesn't potentially screw over a group. Even if a support role helped pump up DPS numbers, if the meta dictates that 3 DPS is > 2 DPS + Support, a support will never get taken. If it is determined that it's better to have 2 DPS + Support, then that means every group is going to need a dracthyr.

Where did I say there would be one less DPS?

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I would like a support class, its a pipe dream for me I think in this game in particular. In order to put a TRUE support class you have to sort of reconstruct how combat and groups should go. I do not think WoW would completely commit to this idea. I do think that if "boosting" means anything, we can look to the abilities we have already in game to get an idea of what a support would look like in this game.

We had the template in Vanilla and TBC with Shaman and Paladin clearly meaning to be the "support" in WoW. The issue was that their roles weren't defined enough, and Blizzard decided to streamline the support job into the other three roles. Frankly all it would take to create a dedicated support role is to decouple support from other roles, and focus and amplify it in the new support role.

[Elbob]

The buff/debuff system is already in place. Currently it's a system that enhances/reduces player or NPC performance. I'm proposing that Blizzard could ramp that system up and make it more critical in group play. Make it as critical as any other role to the point where if you're not bringing a support spec, you're severely hampering the performance of your party.

You would need insane numbers to mandate supports in group play, debuffs that read like 25-50% damage reduction and/or throughput benefits to the dps of the group that that effectively cover the loss of a dps. So we are talking about a 25-33% damage boost for all the dps boost on AVERAGE across the dungeon.

No, you increase the party size by 1, so you still have 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 support, and three DPS. The support is there to enhance the other three roles.

Why add a spot though? How is this helping? Why not bring 2 supports? because as you say later in your post the do different spells.

Just like in current WoW, buffs wouldn't stack, and you bring 2 support in order to cover buffs that one support might not be able to offer. For example, one support might be buffing damage, while the other support might be buffing healers or the tank. One support might be dealing with debuffs and mitigation, while another might be dealing assisting casters. It all depends.

ok so they don't stack but bring mandatory amounts of mitigation/dmg boosts. Do you realize how much power you are putting on this role? They fuck up the boss damage reduction instant wipe, they fuck up the dps damage boost enrage wipe. If your support dies do you just insta wipe the pull?

In the case of raid-wide buffs, keep them as they are now, and maybe even allow those to remain class wide. However, support could have the ability to briefly boost raid-wide buffs locally. Like a support paladin having a cool down that increases the damage reduction of Divine Shield by an additional percentage for a brief time, or offering a secondary buff that increases the damage of all allies effected by Retribution Aura.

Wait so now they have different abilities? Do they stack? Does the support paladin ret aura buff do the same damage boost as the shaman elemental empowerment buff? what about the support priest holy armaments buff? So all these function differently but are raid wide buffs that don't stack. O yeah and all of these buffs are worth an average of 25-33% damage enhancement for everyone in the raid but only 1 of your supports can cast them. Which I guess you can try to compare to all forms of bloodlust but those all do the exact same buff and aren't the exclusive goal of the class. I'm trying to imagine wtf a rotation would look like on this lol i guess its some spam useless spell x for resource and spend resource of OP grp damage buff.

[Ielenia]

So why is it an issue in the theoretical, but not an issue in reality?

What you just wrote is meaningless. No class in this game ever gained a third (or fourth) spec from nothing. So of course this entire thread's premise is about theoretical stuff.

Sticking with Shaman, they lost Searing Totem, Rockbiter Weapon, Stoneclaw Totem, Earthliving Weapon, Water Shield, Unleash Elements, Mana Spring Totem, Sentry Totem, etc. over the course of several expansions. It's pretty much the same for every class, and people get over it.

Those are hardly iconic. Heroism/Bloodlust are iconic. Windfury totem is iconic. Why? Because they're unique. For the longest time shaman was the only class that could bring those buffs, hence why they're iconic to the shaman. Hell, shaman is the only one that can bring the windfury buff, to this day.

Never said they would. Maybe about 6 classes should have a support spec.

Like I said: they're not doing that. That's like saying they're giving all classes a healer spec. Or a tank spec.

I disagree.

Well, you're wrong, then. That's plain and simple a fact.

Removing support for DPS simply shifts and refocuses their responsibilities to doing what the player want to do, and that's deal damage and blow enemies up.

Congratulations: that is called "simplifying the role".

I'm not really interested in coming up with new DPS rotations, sorry.

In other words, you have nothing to back up your claim, since you can't even come up with a system that isn't 'builder/spender' or 'proc-based'.

[fatgunn]

I don't think soloplay should be an issue with this. You play the class not the spec. In open world there is no reason to play as a healer right now either. It is horribly slow. Switch to DPS or tank and done.

I am sorry... but open world play is simply not big enough to be considered here. And no one farms transmog as a healer either.

Most players pick a spec and only change during downtime between patches or expansions.

[Teriz]

You would need insane numbers to mandate supports in group play, debuffs that read like 25-50% damage reduction and/or throughput benefits to the dps of the group that that effectively cover the loss of a dps. So we are talking about a 25-33% damage boost for all the dps boost on AVERAGE across the dungeon.

Which is just numbers. You can tune an instance accordingly. Balancing and all that jazz....

Why add a spot though? How is this helping? Why not bring 2 supports? because as you say later in your post the do different spells.

Because a 6-man wouldn't need two supports, just like it doesn't need 2 healers.

ok so they don't stack but bring mandatory amounts of mitigation/dmg boosts. Do you realize how much power you are putting on this role? They fuck up the boss damage reduction instant wipe, they fuck up the dps damage boost enrage wipe. If your support dies do you just insta wipe the pull?

No different than if the tank screws up or the healers screw up, or the DPS aren't putting out enough damage, etc.

Wait so now they have different abilities?

There should be a core set of universal support abilities that each support spec should have. Kind of like how each healer has weak/mid/strong heals. Then they should have their own unique set of support abilities that make their spec feel unique.

Do they stack?

Think of it like an enhanced version of Aura mastery. A temporary buff on top of another buff.

Does the support paladin ret aura buff do the same damage boost as the shaman elemental empowerment buff?

Doubtful. Each class should have their own strengths and weaknesses, but still be viable. Again, bring the player, not the class.

O yeah and all of these buffs are worth an average of 25-33% damage enhancement for everyone in the raid but only 1 of your supports can cast them.

I never said that.

Which I guess you can try to compare to all forms of bloodlust but those all do the exact same buff and aren't the exclusive goal of the class. I'm trying to imagine wtf a rotation would look like on this lol i guess its some spam useless spell x for resource and spend resource of OP grp damage buff.

I imagine your time spent would be based on the needs of your group. If you feel that your group isn't doing enough damage, boost them. If you feel that the adds are dealing too much damage, weaken them. If you feel the healer needs some mana, give him some. If you feel that the tank is taking too much damage, give him a bit more mitigation. If your group needs to move, give everyone a speed boost. etc. etc.

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What you just wrote is meaningless. No class in this game ever gained a third (or fourth) spec from nothing. So of course this entire thread's premise is about theoretical stuff.

What I'm saying is that you're following your typical argumentative trait of saying something not implemented is a problem, while that non-implemented item is already in the game in another form and operating just fine.

Those are hardly iconic. Heroism/Bloodlust are iconic. Windfury totem is iconic. Why? Because they're unique. For the longest time shaman was the only class that could bring those buffs, hence why they're iconic to the shaman. Hell, shaman is the only one that can bring the windfury buff, to this day.

And Shaman lost Windfury totem for quite awhile. In fact, the current version of Windfury Totem isn't the same as the version that was removed at the end of Cataclysm.

Like I said: they're not doing that. That's like saying they're giving all classes a healer spec. Or a tank spec.

Possibly not, but this is a "what if" thread.

Congratulations: that is called "simplifying the role".

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

In other words, you have nothing to back up your claim, since you can't even come up with a system that isn't 'builder/spender' or 'proc-based'.

Where did I state that I could come up with a better system than Builder/Spender? I simply said that it would be better for the game if blizzard came up with something better. Maybe decoupling support from DPS could push them to do that, because then they wouldn't use support abilities to make DPS specs more interesting.

[Polybius]

No, its completely redundant.
First off you need to define what support is and why its exclusive from the role of healer and tank, then you have to decide whether its mandatory or optional, if mandatory good luck getting healer, tank AND support all in a group, if its optional good luck getting a group as a support.

In vanilla they tried it with certain skills, paladins had blessings that they had to apply one at a time and shamans had totems, turned out that the gameplay was absolute garbage and completely unfun. you wound up being a buff bot that sucked at everything else.

With more modern design philosophy they could create something more interesting but you have to ask: why?

Its not necessary at all. What i would like to see however is DPS all get some support toolkits that work with the theme of the spec and create subclasses for different kinds of dps specs, like 'bruisers' that can assist with tanking (i have ideas for a complete threat rework to facilitate this but its just a complete other thing), healer specs can obviously assist with healing and pure dps can assist with group mobility and crowd control. The support i suggested all funnels into 'reduce group damage taken' which is effectively what support is going to do otherwise its just a dps.
Id like to eventually see pure healers and pure tanks as something optional for 5 man content where you could run 2 bruisers and 2 off healers in a 5man if you are skilled enough.
My idea is that these roles wont interfere with dps output so either add utility to rotational skills or have damage buff offsets when casting spells or put utility off GCD or something.
Also an opt out for players that arent interested where every spec can 'gift' their support power to another player (when used increase allies mana by 50% but reduce yours by 50%)
Also go go back to using mana for most classes (if not all) as a limiter for utility (with perhaps reduced CDs or double charges on utility spells) so dps specs can be balanced with finite mana pools etc.

This would create dps specs that provide support in unique ways and can help differentiate and justify multiple different dps specs.

If you are talking about a spec that buffs the damage output of other specs then i would suggest abilities that facilitate that gameplay but doesnt screw with dps, like casting a lightning shield on an ally where they are more powerful and are in control of the damage being dealt but it is attributed to the caster. Skills like that could be fun for healers who love the support fantasy but shouldnt be on dps specs and shouldnt directly improve dps classes but rather deal damage through dps players.

Im not opposed to support gameplay and i think there are ways to include it but i dont see any reason for support specs. Healing is a completely unique fantasy and gameplay style that justifies being included, same with tanking, but pure support is just far too niche in a game with 2 already unpopular niches.

Totems were actually fun and Shaman used to fulfill the role of buffing players. The modern design philosophy is what destroyed them and gave all classes utility, from heals to invulnerabilities. The game is fast paced now so support wouldn't really add any impactful benefit.

[Teriz]

Totems were actually fun and Shaman used to fulfill the role of buffing players. The modern design philosophy is what destroyed them and gave all classes utility, from heals to invulnerabilities.

Yeah, Shaman wasn't as much unfun as unnecessarily complex. Blizzard made efforts to streamline them though, Call of Elements being one such example, but it came at the point where Blizzard was looking to streamline the class.

And yeah, Call of Elements would be something I would definitely bring back for a support Shaman spec, along with many of its lost totems.

[Elbob]

Which is just numbers. You can tune an instance accordingly. Balancing and all that jazz....


Because a 6-man wouldn't need two supports, just like it doesn't need 2 healers.


No different than if the tank screws up or the healers screw up, or the DPS aren't putting out enough damage, etc.


There should be a core set of universal support abilities that each support spec should have. Kind of like how each healer has weak/mid/strong heals. Then they should have their own unique set of support abilities that make their spec feel unique.


Think of it like an enhanced version of Aura mastery. A temporary buff on top of another buff.


Doubtful. Each class should have their own strengths and weaknesses, but still be viable. Again, bring the player, not the class.


I never said that.

I imagine your time spent would be based on the needs of your group. If you feel that your group isn't doing enough damage, boost them. If you feel that the adds are dealing too much damage, weaken them. If you feel the healer needs some mana, give him some. If you feel that the tank is taking too much damage, give him a bit more mitigation. If your group needs to move, give everyone a speed boost. etc. etc.

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my point is the numbers are too high, if you support is picking their nose or dies even momentarily it kills your raid or makes you lose too much dps. And no its very rare a healer being dead for 5-10s kills your raid. Even most tank busters can be over cd'd to stay alive longer while you res or wait for the other tank. Not to mention, why add more 1 person wipes the raid mechanics thats shit design.

I mean with how much dr they bring and how much damage they grant sounds like it would work fine.

Not the same because its 1 person with uptime buffs that are more impactful then entire roles and i explained more above.

So they would stack if different classes yeah not broken or worth stacking kekw. But some would be way balanced above others due to nature of single spells having huge swings across skill levels and comps. Thats the math to make them worth in 5 mans, so it is the implied amount(~25-33%). Otherwise you just wouldnt bring them in 5mans.

Its not "if you feel your group needs damage" its going to be the strat revolves around optimal damage buff uptime and bare minimum mitigation buff uptime. Killing the boss faster makes everyone's job easier.

Go ahead and throw together a concept with some numbers and uptimes so we can all point out how impossible to balance it is. until then enjoy your fantasy functional role.

[Teriz]

my point is the numbers are too high,

Then adjust the numbers.

if you support is picking their nose or dies even momentarily it kills your raid or makes you lose too much dps.

Doesn't the exact same thing happen if your healers or tanks die in a raid?

And no its very rare a healer being dead for 5-10s kills your raid. Even most tank busters can be over cd'd to stay alive longer while you res or wait for the other tank. Not to mention, why add more 1 person wipes the raid mechanics thats shit design.

There would be more than one support in a raid. The point still stands; If a section of your raid dies, you're probably going to wipe. So yeah, if you fail to protect your support, you're probably going to wipe. Again, this probably won't be tough to keep them up considering that with support you're doing more HPS, DPS, and Mitigation.

Its not "if you feel your group needs damage" its going to be the strat revolves around optimal damage buff uptime and bare minimum mitigation buff uptime. Killing the boss faster makes everyone's job easier.

Go ahead and throw together a concept with some numbers and uptimes so we can all point out how impossible to balance it is. until then enjoy your fantasy functional role.

It's probably going to be a bit of both; Optimal play will wield optimal results, and elite play will more than likely resemble what you're saying here, but in low-level to standard group play there will be plenty of wiggle room to learn the spec and mess up at lower levels. Again, no different from what Tanking or Healing have to do to learn their specs for raiding. Obviously great support will make content easier to manage. Mediocre to bad support will make content harder to manage.