Beta signup Diablo 4

[Nymrohd]

But...permanent respec cost increase? What the absolute fucking fuck of a fuck? Fucking why? That's even extreme for super hardcore PoE shit and Blizzard is adding this for the more mainstream/casual oriented D4?

This is the one thing I just don't get. Why don't you let me respec easily? My gameplay would be so much better if I could switch from melee to archer depending on the task and on whether I play solo or with a group. It's not like the game gives me a superfluous amount of skill points so I can keep extra skills maxed for a different build. Is the idea to have multiple characters of the same class? Action or not, an RPG is an RPG and it lives and dies by how much I bond with individual characters. I need to be excited to play with my rogue, not with Rogue 1. Add a cost as a slow gold sink if need be but don't make it prohibitive.

[Kumorii]

I hope they implement loadouts so I can keep my current build while trying out a new one and I can easily swap to the other one with one click.
I did find it annoying that if I wanted to change my core skill I had to refund a point from a later section more often than not and place an extra in the core section and then change skills 1 by 1 and lastly place the final point from where I took it.

Would be great if they make it so I can refund a skill or multiple in the CORE section but I can't place it anywhere except in the CORE section or Basic skill section so I still have the required skills allocated for later sections to remain open and If I exit out of the skill window it reverts to what I previously had.

I assume this is a problem when exchanging skills while lvling and when at max lvl you probably have skills in more of the passives in each section so you don't encounter this problem. But it was a bit annoying. It's a very minor gripe though.

[Nzx]

This is the one thing I just don't get. Why don't you let me respec easily? My gameplay would be so much better if I could switch from melee to archer depending on the task and on whether I play solo or with a group. It's not like the game gives me a superfluous amount of skill points so I can keep extra skills maxed for a different build. Is the idea to have multiple characters of the same class? Action or not, an RPG is an RPG and it lives and dies by how much I bond with individual characters. I need to be excited to play with my rogue, not with Rogue 1. Add a cost as a slow gold sink if need be but don't make it prohibitive.

Interesting. Last time I was here, everyone was saying WoW wasn't an RPG anymore because it was too easy to respec. Now it sounds like D4 isn't an RPG because it's too hard to respec. I thought my rogue was supposed to be a dagger expert, not "just a rogue" that can do everything.

[Kumorii]

Interesting. Last time I was here, everyone was saying WoW wasn't an RPG anymore because it was too easy to respec. Now it sounds like D4 isn't an RPG because it's too hard to respec. I thought my rogue was supposed to be a dagger expert, not "just a rogue" that can do everything.

There will always be a clash between people wanting specs and choices to be more of a character choice and people who want freedom of being anything at anytime.
Both also think their choice is the "proper RPG choice". So it's usually a dead convo from the start :P

[Nymrohd]

Interesting. Last time I was here, everyone was saying WoW wasn't an RPG anymore because it was too easy to respec. Now it sounds like D4 isn't an RPG because it's too hard to respec. I thought my rogue was supposed to be a dagger expert, not "just a rogue" that can do everything.

I get what you are saying. When I play in tabletop, I don't generally agree with people rebuilding their characters if there is no good reason. If a player really wants to change how their character plays, I am more likely to let them bring a new NPC in at the same level. And character archetypes are very important to me. But player stories often tie in strongly with their starting build and how they build their characters is part of the story we all collective tell; to break that is to change a shared story.
But in a game like Diablo the reality of my gameplay shifts constantly. In the table I will be playing with the same group of people so I build a character to both fit my desired archetype and to also work with the group. When I log in an ARPG though sometimes I'll be solo, sometimes I'll be in a group. The challenge level is higher and I cannot really always depend on others. Ultimately for me it matters more who my character is (their motivation, how they look, what they have accomplished) over what they do. The narrative part is more important than the simulationist part. And since character builds are such an abstraction in these games (there is no training, loot is so plentiful that your build is never defined by what you found).

[Gaidax]

Respecs are fairly freebie, the cost is per spec point rising with your level.

From what I heard, a full respec at max level is about 1.2m gold, which sounds a ton, but just isn't given that in beta I was farming about 300k/hour chill at level 25.

Of course you don't need to do a full respec all the time, chaining a few points here and there won't be an issue at all. I'd expect the bigger pain with respec endgame would be not the act of respec itself, but maintaining the gear you want for other spec. But then it's ARPG, you have to earn your gear.


My only request for respec would be a dual spec or loadout feature, which I imagine will happen eventually. In PoE it took half a decade to get a proper loadout feature, I hope for D4 it will be a matter of a year or two.

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There will always be a clash between people wanting specs and choices to be more of a character choice and people who want freedom of being anything at anytime.
Both also think their choice is the "proper RPG choice". So it's usually a dead convo from the start :P

Yes, feedback section in D4 discord you have completely polar feedback all the time.

I have seen both "make respecs free for all all the time, player choice" and "make respecs much more restrictive, because our lord and savior D2 is that way man".

One of Blizzard's challenges in D4 is this constant walking on the tight rope between what hardcore D2 cultists want and what casual players with little to no prior titles' engagement.

So, they ended up with giving respec option, but you'd probably have to grind some gold to pay for it max level. IMO, it's ok trade-off. Personally, off my perch - I'd rather have FFA respec, because gear itself is enough of blocker there. But it's me.

[xskarma]

At level 25 a full respec cost 2200 gold or there about, which you can make just by running 1 dungeon, depending on precise number of mobs in said dungeon and the length of it and how fast you find your way through it and drop luck.

I don't consider that prohibitive, especially since usually you could use the method others indicated by dropping a point from your Ult, and putting it in earlier and swapping around the points you want. Which means you only spend about 120g per point swapped, which is like 1 cluster of mobs per point spent.

I think a lot of the discourse about this stuff is based on incomplete or maliciously distorted information.

Then again, I'm in the camp of people who would prefer to just play a spec, and do the occasional respec when I have gear for a different one and want to try it with the intention of it being my new main way to play. I don't feel like respeccing for every trash or boss fight should be a thing, or talent load outs that do that. That way leads to hyper optimizing for very specific styles of play and constantly swapping stuff, and that's not what an ARPG should be in my opinion. (I didn't like it in WoW with dungeons or raids either, and in WoW it is a far more accepted practice)

[Mamut]

From what I heard, a full respec at max level is about 1.2m gold, which sounds a ton, but just isn't given that in beta I was farming about 300k/hour chill at level 25.

Of course you don't need to do a full respec all the time, chaining a few points here and there won't be an issue at all.

Yeah, atleast gold will have some value now and won't be useless after like 1 month. Also you wiull just earn gold just by playing so I think people like always exaggerate on this.
The only problem would be if the cost raise with every respec then theres really could be a point when you would be better just to roll new character.

[KrayZ33]

upgrading the items for a "new spec" seems to be way, way, way (add another 20) more expensive than the cost for respeccing talents.

[bullseyed]

Inventory and stats seem to be perfect for console

Inventory jenga was removed as a QOL improvement. D3 console didn't have inventory jenga, but D3 PC did have it.

[Edge-]

I'm assuming it's essentially just item level or something. It's probably good as a quick guide to not slow you down while levelling, but once you get higher up you'll probably want to pay more attention to the particular stats on the item and figure out what's best for your build. D4 seems to have more variety of affixes than D3 so there should (hopefully) be a bit more too it than just getting as much crit % / crit dmg as you can.

Putting 5 points into a skill does feel lackluster at low levels, but I think going from 1 -> 5 is roughly 40% extra damage which should (?) be multiplicative with other damage boosts, so it should be a pretty big deal later on especially since you'll have more skill points than we had with the level 25 cap. You can get +skills on gear, too.

I guess on the stat-front, it just seemed so boring since it seems like you need loads and loads of a stat for it to have any real impact. Which dovetails into my concerns that given the fairly low scaling on your passive tree for ability damage, I'm worried we're going to be seeing "Increases X ability damage by 10,000%" type garbage at endgame again and that's just pure and total cancer. The pointless overinflation of all the numbers in D3 was one of the hugest turnoffs for me, why on earth am I doing tens of billions of damage per hit?

I don't entirely disagree, and I do hope they work on the skills more before launch. It felt like some were miles better than others, and specific synergies that highly favoured "well you picked this skill, so you should pick this one and that one too" which limits build variety overall.

The legendaries don't really bother me too much especially since you can transfer their powers onto whatever other item you want to use. I think it's been the case in most ARPGS that if you get an interesting legendary/unique you might want to play around it, at least for a bit.

Short of a bunch of brand new skills/variants, along with the necessary rebalance of all the gear that interacts with it I'm not sure what they can really do in the span of two months. They can do some tweaking and tuning, but overhauls are fairly out of the question I'd imagine.

I just really, really, really, really, really don't like that ability altering power being tied to your gear. It feels so utterly pointless and unnecessary. I feel like they've talked about wanting to simplify the tree to keep broad appeal and all but like...holy shit they went way too fuckin simple and there are so many other better ways to do this via keeping the power in the tree and simply gating it until later on in the game. Most ARPG's have some skill/talent/passive points that can have a big impact on how you/an ability functions that unlock around mid-game like this so I'm not sure why Blizzard is dedicated to sticking with tying it to RNG and the busywork of needing to swap that passive between items every time you replace a piece of gear.

[infinitemeridian]

I guess on the stat-front, it just seemed so boring since it seems like you need loads and loads of a stat for it to have any real impact. Which dovetails into my concerns that given the fairly low scaling on your passive tree for ability damage, I'm worried we're going to be seeing "Increases X ability damage by 10,000%" type garbage at endgame again and that's just pure and total cancer. The pointless overinflation of all the numbers in D3 was one of the hugest turnoffs for me, why on earth am I doing tens of billions of damage per hit?



Short of a bunch of brand new skills/variants, along with the necessary rebalance of all the gear that interacts with it I'm not sure what they can really do in the span of two months. They can do some tweaking and tuning, but overhauls are fairly out of the question I'd imagine.

I just really, really, really, really, really don't like that ability altering power being tied to your gear. It feels so utterly pointless and unnecessary. I feel like they've talked about wanting to simplify the tree to keep broad appeal and all but like...holy shit they went way too fuckin simple and there are so many other better ways to do this via keeping the power in the tree and simply gating it until later on in the game. Most ARPG's have some skill/talent/passive points that can have a big impact on how you/an ability functions that unlock around mid-game like this so I'm not sure why Blizzard is dedicated to sticking with tying it to RNG and the busywork of needing to swap that passive between items every time you replace a piece of gear.

They even stated that they wanted to remove so much power from gear, but the build options outside of that are pitiful. And I'm talking about the skill tree AND paragon, which we know how it works and what it actual does based on datamining. Which is to say...not much.

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diab...21#JoePiepiora

[beanman12345]

This is the one thing I just don't get. Why don't you let me respec easily? My gameplay would be so much better if I could switch from melee to archer depending on the task and on whether I play solo or with a group. It's not like the game gives me a superfluous amount of skill points so I can keep extra skills maxed for a different build. Is the idea to have multiple characters of the same class? Action or not, an RPG is an RPG and it lives and dies by how much I bond with individual characters. I need to be excited to play with my rogue, not with Rogue 1. Add a cost as a slow gold sink if need be but don't make it prohibitive.

Actually yes. The first time it was ever brought up, they said for high level, people should just roll another character to respec because I guess gold prices will just be obscene at high levels. So yeah they seem to want us to have multiple of the same class. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if they do try to monetize it, along with a few other QoL like a gem stash tab or whatever. Maybe not selling respec potions for 200 premium blizzard gems or whatever, but wouldn't be surprised either if they have some on the battle pass(even if it's on the free track,) or more likely, they just sell extra loadouts. Considering loadouts were added to diablo 3, way into the games life, because of how requested it was, they know it'll be just as desired in this one too, yet they just want us to roll another character? It all just sounds fishy to me.

[Mamut]

Everyone complain about druid, meantime:



I know it's twinked but still impressive.

[Trifle]

I guess on the stat-front, it just seemed so boring since it seems like you need loads and loads of a stat for it to have any real impact.

I'm assuming with higher level gear you'll get enough more of stats for it to not feel as bad. I still don't think it's worth focusing on attributes at all (str, dex etc) given how poorly they seem to scale, but crit, overpower, cooldown reduction etc we'll probably get in bigger numbers.

I just really, really, really, really, really don't like that ability altering power being tied to your gear.

Mageblood, lol. I get what you mean though, particularly since it seems you can only transfer legendary powers once for each time you find them. You have those aspects you get from dungeons you can use as much as you want so I guess hopefully some of them are good budget options.

[xmirrors]

I just really, really, really, really, really don't like that ability altering power being tied to your gear.

Strong disagree. I want dozens of legendary affixes that alter individual abilities. I want to get a drop and be excited because it's either exactly what I'm looking for or because it inspires a new build.

Which is why I sincerely hope they don't dig their heels into the ridiculous respec costs because that basically ruins it entirely.

[Gaidax]

Yeah, atleast gold will have some value now and won't be useless after like 1 month. Also you wiull just earn gold just by playing so I think people like always exaggerate on this.
The only problem would be if the cost raise with every respec then theres really could be a point when you would be better just to roll new character.

With "enchanting" in D4 you can bet that gold would just go poof anyway.

Like my biggest blocker in D4 at 25 when we started farming gear for kicks to flesh out the lvl 25 lolbuild - was gold. Enchanting ate it up REAL fast, so I gathered with the bois and we were spam farming a dungeon not for legendaries, but simply for rares to sell and get gold for item upgrades and enchanting.

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Strong disagree. I want dozens of legendary affixes that alter individual abilities. I want to get a drop and be excited because it's either exactly what I'm looking for or because it inspires a new build.

Well as suspected what we seen was just a small part of what the game actually has:



It was already obvious when open beta build added a bunch compared to preorder open beta, but seems there is even more. I like having "totally balanced" legendries in my ARPGs. I'm a big fan of "totally balanced".

[Nzx]

At level 25 a full respec cost 2200 gold or there about, which you can make just by running 1 dungeon, depending on precise number of mobs in said dungeon and the length of it and how fast you find your way through it and drop luck.

This is the part I'm not understanding. I had over 100k by the time my rogue hit 25, and I hadn't sold a single item because I salvaged everything. I fully respecced three or four times to try out ranged and melee, and I never once felt like the cost was "prohibitive". I could've done it 50 times without ever leaving Kyovashad again.

Of all the bullshit complaints I've seen about this game, I think the respec cost one is by far the most overblown and the only conclusion I can draw is that it's being kept alive by people who didn't play the game who heard it from someone else who didn't play the game but heard it from a youtuber. It is just simply not the case.

[Ophenia]

This is the part I'm not understanding. I had over 100k by the time my rogue hit 25, and I hadn't sold a single item because I salvaged everything. I fully respecced three or four times to try out ranged and melee, and I never once felt like the cost was "prohibitive". I could've done it 50 times without ever leaving Kyovashad again.

Of all the bullshit complaints I've seen about this game, I think the respec cost one is by far the most overblown and the only conclusion I can draw is that it's being kept alive by people who didn't play the game who heard it from someone else who didn't play the game but heard it from a youtuber. It is just simply not the case.

Yeah the respec didn't seem to cost a lot, I salvaged most of the stuff too and never struggled respeccing when needed. The real stuff that seems to cost a lot (at least at level 25) was the aspect/legendary stuff. I don't know with what it was scaling (power of the item or your level ?), but I think it was like 15k to extract one at level 25 ?

I hope they implement loadouts so I can keep my current build while trying out a new one and I can easily swap to the other one with one click.
I did find it annoying that if I wanted to change my core skill I had to refund a point from a later section more often than not and place an extra in the core section and then change skills 1 by 1 and lastly place the final point from where I took it.

Would be great if they make it so I can refund a skill or multiple in the CORE section but I can't place it anywhere except in the CORE section or Basic skill section so I still have the required skills allocated for later sections to remain open and If I exit out of the skill window it reverts to what I previously had.

I assume this is a problem when exchanging skills while lvling and when at max lvl you probably have skills in more of the passives in each section so you don't encounter this problem. But it was a bit annoying. It's a very minor gripe though.

That shit was extra annoying yeah. Guess we'll get used to it but it was a bit painful to play around when you're tight in skill points

[Nymrohd]

OK this is very interesting: https://www.wowhead.com/diablo-4/new...ablo-iv-332192

I had forgotten this was a thing. Apparently spells get more and more visual intense at high rank. I was playing rogue and not using any flashy skills so I did not notice (though my Shadow imbuement was rank 7). Apparently if you stack up the gear to rank up a favourite skill it can go all the way to RANK 18! So if it gets more and more impressive visually it does make sense that rank 1 would be somewhat subdued and since at lvl 25 most people would only rank up a couple of their offensive skills and probably have at most +2/+3 from gear some of the complaints should be adressed. your skills will be much more impactful visually once you are high level and properly geared.