Diablo 4 is bad.

[KrayZ33]

It was outright bad to play barb from level 1 and it didnt really change a whole lot on the way to 25. Gotta put in way more legwork to kill stuff than lets say a necro. Necromancer is just kekw until the end.

I agree, it was so horrible that I assume the only way to level properly early on is with thorns and rend.


But leveling to lvl 25 is not when you get gear.
Barbs with farmed gear at lvl 25 would just spin-to-win through dungeons and content way faster than anyone else because they move as fast as sorcs or even faster - but they don't need to stop while doing damage.
WW hits for 4k when elites have like 3-6k health.
The highest hitting Barb I've seen did a 360.000 dmg crit - at level 25

In contrast, a skeleton deals ~100 damage and a skeleton mage 400 dmg.
And maybe your bonespear will hit 22k with *insane* lvl25 gear and you are just so freaking slow. You will not be able to keep up with barbarians farming content. Necro will be slow and very bad for farming... not necessarily because they deal little damage, but because they just suck at movement.

During the endgame beta, barbs destroyed shit as well.
WW Snapshots, so you can imagine what happens with 2 extra 2h affixes (+100% bonus on each) and an extra damage modifier (berserking) that no other class has... and it's not a small modifier either.
Alongside absurd healing and dmg reduction everywhere in their tree and skills.



As mentioned earlier, all barb needs are better basic skills.
Upheaval already one shots everything in front of you and does big boy damage.
But when your builder hits for like 20 damage when others hit for 100 at lvl 10 it starts to matter, considering you need to build up ressources first, while other classes spend ressources as it regenerates passively.
Meaning you are using builders more often, and they deal little damage and have no AoE included in them.

[crusadernero]

I agree, it was so horrible that I assume the only way to level properly early on is with thorns and rend.


But leveling to lvl 25 is not when you get gear.
Barbs with farmed gear at lvl 25 would just spin-to-win through dungeons and content way faster than anyone else because they move as fast as sorcs or even faster - but they don't need to stop while doing damage.
WW hits for 4k when elites have like 3-6k health.
The highest hitting Barb I've seen did a 360.000 dmg crit - at level 25

In contrast, a skeleton deals ~100 damage and a skeleton mage 400 dmg.
And maybe your bonespear will hit 22k with *insane* lvl25 gear and you are just so freaking slow. You will not be able to keep up with barbarians farming content. Necro will be slow and very bad for farming... not necessarily because they deal little damage, but because they just suck at movement.

During the endgame beta, barbs destroyed shit as well.
WW Snapshots, so you can imagine what happens with 2 extra 2h affixes (+100% bonus on each) and an extra damage modifier that no other class has.
Alongside absurd healing and dmg reduction everywhere in their tree and skills.

I've always been a barb fan, but for the first time i've been thinking about dropping the class if/when I buy D4. Good to hear it gets better later on. In any case, things can(will) change up until release. Would imagine atleast tuning will look different at launch than this beta weekend.

I did download D4 on my xbox too, just to see how it played there. Gotta say, it was nice relaxing on the sofa and slaugther demons lol. To the point were im seriously considering just getting D4 on xbox instead, cause my PC is starting to reach potato level. It can run D4, but it gotta work hard heh. D4 plays quite well on console.

[KrayZ33]

I've always been a barb fan, but for the first time i've been thinking about dropping the class if/when I buy D4. Good to hear it gets better later on. In any case, things can(will) change up until release. Would imagine atleast tuning will look different at launch than this beta weekend.

I don't think they'll change that much. If you want to play a barb, just go for thorns and pick up Ironskin with the healing barrier-trait (makes you invincible) or do a tripple shout build and scream everyone to death while they kill themselves on your thorns.
Mobs die as you move past them. Bosses are killed with rend+rupture (and thorns)

Thorns do "big" damage while leveling
You get to hit them back for 300 damage relatively early even though normal mobs have like 100 hp.
Just the first ~10 levels or so are rather painful, but it will be over in like 1 hour.

I'm still deciding between Barb and Necro myself.

[Gaidax]

I think it's safe to say there won't be a Diablo 5.

Here's a spoiler for you:

There will be Diablo 5, 6, 8 and frikkin' 11.

Because it's a franchise that sells dozens of millions of copies per entry on name alone.

[Dioporco]

Dragonflight is, and will continue to be, amazingly good through it's lifespan. So will Diablo 4. You Blizzard haters are severely overcooked.

Nice cherry pick, you forgot SL BFA and D3 + RoS and the 28 seasons that were literally nothing but maintenance of a failure.


pathetic

[Silvereyes1372]

tbf I had absolutely 0 fun in this beta , and it feels 100% like d3

[Gaidax]

Nice cherry pick, you forgot SL BFA and D3 + RoS and the 28 seasons that were literally nothing but maintenance of a failure.


pathetic

You realize D3 sold more than 30 million copies over its lifespan? That's some failure, ma boi.

Same goes for SL/BfA and so on. If that's a "failure" then damn, I'd like to see what success looks like.

[Kumorii]

Nice cherry pick, you forgot SL BFA and D3 + RoS and the 28 seasons that were literally nothing but maintenance of a failure.


pathetic

calling D3 a failure is some next level cope.
30 million copies over 3 years...
So it's not like the sales came from first day hype. First day sales were 3.5 million...

It ended up on maintenance, because they had no extra revenue for maintaining it, but calling it a failure? I'd love to see what it requires to be a success.
Elden ring has sold 20 million, so I guess that's a failure too.

[Gaidax]

And by the way, I'm on a D3 boat being endgame disaster, at least as far as my wishlist goes. But a failure? Nope.

I guess the only way it can be spun as a failure is that it potentially could be 100m copies sold, but instead only did 30m due to dumbass mistakes in endgame on Blizz part. And that's where I hope D4 will do better.

[Tolinn]

D4 feels like D3 except you spend the whole time peddling through treacle the entire time.

- Combat feels really slow and sticky. It doesn't feel like everything is more impactful so much as it's just D3 slowed down.
- Played Necro to 25. Pretty much all the ranged abilities feel the same. Blood Lance, Bone Spear, Bone Splinters. *shrug* I tried a couple of the decay-type ones, and they're... fine?
- The setting feels cool, I liked how gross and nasty some places were. A corridor full of pulsing organs and spider legs? Why? Who knows. It's nasty though and I like it.
- I didn't feel like any of my items really mattered unless they were legendary and did something. I pretty much just looked to see if green number was bigger or red number was lower. I get that this is still pretty low level and might feel better later on when I actually care what some of the more minor stats do, but for the time it felt like I was only looking at one number.
- All my ults felt really unimpactful. Particularly Blood Wave. It's a minor knock back on a 45 sec CD.. Okay...
- The Skill Tree was awkward to use, and I think it was pretty much building a toolkit for you. Picking Bone Splinters? I guess you're also picking Bone Spear. You probably also want bone prison. Pick a skill that has Bone in it. Those are the ones you want.

Considering 11 years have gone past since D3 came out, it just feels like a slower version of it.

It is pretty though.

[Capultro]

ejem,diablo4 is the game after diablo3,just this.

[Gaidax]

- The Skill Tree was awkward to use, and I think it was pretty much building a toolkit for you. Picking Bone Splinters? I guess you're also picking Bone Spear. You probably also want bone prison. Pick a skill that has Bone in it. Those are the ones you want.

This is such a noob mind trap.

We got rid of this mindset in D4 discord VERY quickly. Reality is - skills actually synergize very well across the whole spectrum. That's why top beta Sorc build literally mixes all elements and all skill types - because the element does not really matter, what matters is how their secondary bonuses work with each other.

Who cares that Ice Blades are "frost" when they give vulnerability to ALL damage AND each of their swings reduce cooldowns of ALL your skills by 0.5s? Does it really matter that Spark is electric if it stacks +% crit chance to ALL you skills? Who cares that Hydra is fire, when it's simply a good sustain for almost free that benefits from all the previous buffs and debuffs provided by other element skills, while also boosting all your damage by 6% across the board thanks to conjuration passive?

So yeah, there you go - absolute mix of elements, but works together to make best beta build right there.


And Necros are same way - you using Blood Mist Corpse Explosion lego, does not suddenly mean that ALL you other skills need to be Blood. Same goes for Bone Splinters, which does ludicrous damage for being a basic skill. You don't need to pick even one other bone skill for that to not be true.

[liyroot]

calling D3 a failure is some next level cope.
30 million copies over 3 years...
So it's not like the sales came from first day hype. First day sales were 3.5 million...

It ended up on maintenance, because they had no extra revenue for maintaining it, but calling it a failure? I'd love to see what it requires to be a success.
Elden ring has sold 20 million, so I guess that's a failure too.

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom is the 12th most successful movie in the history of cinema. Sales don't reflect whether the product is good or not. I'm not saying D3 is bad but quoting sales figures doesn't mean anything. I mean come on, you're not gonna say Fallen Kingdom was a good movie are you???

[Asrialol]

Don't play it then lol, what am I even reading??

[Gaidax]

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom is the 12th most successful movie in the history of cinema. Sales don't reflect whether the product is good or not. I'm not saying D3 is bad but quotes sales figures doesn't mean anything. I mean come on, you're not gonna say Fallen Kingdom was a good movie are you???

First of all, it was "failure", now moving a goalpost to "is good", as if everyone here is a hivemind and your subjective opinion on what's good or not is universally true.

[Kumorii]

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom is the 12th most successful movie in the history of cinema. Sales don't reflect whether the product is good or not. I'm not saying D3 is bad but quoting sales figures doesn't mean anything. I mean come on, you're not gonna say Fallen Kingdom was a good movie are you???

He called it a failure.
It's not a failure. 30 millions OVER 3 YEARS... if it was bad it wouldn't get that much sales OVER 3 YEARS. It would get hype sales and then die down... that didn't happen.
This isn't first day sale hype... this is a game that actually sold pretty low and GAINED sales over time. Probably because the game became better and or more people heard good things about it and bought it.
A game that sales well over time is a better indication that the game is good or got fixed or what not than first day sales.

Context matters more so than numbers. Context of how these numbers were gained clearly showed it's anything but a failure.

I personally don't think the game is that good either, but my personal preference has no bearing whatsoever on the fact it's a huge success still to this day. very few games can dream of having a "failure" like this.

[liyroot]

First of all, you said "failure", now you move a goalpost to "is good", as if everyone here is a hivemind and your subjective opinion on what's good or not is universally true.

I'd say you gotta relax and rethink your strategy here, instead of digging that hole you've jumped into even deeper.

You're getting me confused with someone else buddy.

- - - Updated - - -

He called it a failure.
It's not a failure. 30 millions OVER 3 YEARS... if it was bad it wouldn't get that much sales OVER 3 YEARS.
The only time you can quote numbers and call it a failure is if the numbers a first day sales due to hype. This isn't first day sale hype... this is a game that actually sold pretty low and GAINED sales over time. Probably because the game became better and or more people heard good things about it and bought it.

Context matters more so than numbers. Context if how these numbers were gained clearly showed it's anything but a failure.

I'm not saying it's a failure. I'm saying quoting sales is a weak argument. Diablo Immortal is one of the most successful games of all time. Does that make it a good game? I beg to differ here.

[Kumorii]

I'm not saying it's a failure. I'm saying quoting sales is a weak argument. Diablo Immortal is one of the most successful games of all time. Does that make it a good game? I beg to differ here.

That has nothing to do with my post or the guy I quoted... Where did I say a successful game = a good game? I didn't.
A good game is subjective... a successful game is objective. Diablo Immortal is successful. D3 is one of the biggest successes in history of games. Objectively.

Though due to the context of D3's sales number It's safe to say it's regarded as a good game overall regardless of your or my view. It wouldn't gain these numbers in the way it did if people thought it was a bad game. Quoting numbers without context is indeed a weak argument, I did apply context though...

[xskarma]

This is such a noob mind trap.

Well to be fair this is how it works in D3, so there's precedent for it working like that and looking for the synergies. But yeah it didn't seem to work like that in Beta.

I also didn't see the HUGE elemental bonuses on gear that D3 did. There were piddly 3-4% Shadow Damage increase or Physical. Not the 15-20% of D3. There also didn't seem to be specific gear slots that provide such a bonus. Was just random on most pieces of gear.

So yeah it's likely that some synergy might work out beneficial at some point, but it's far more mix and match than D3 was, which is a very very good thing.

[liyroot]

That has nothing to do with my post or the guy I quoted... Where did I say a successful game = a good game? I didn't.
A good game is subjective... a successful game is objective. Diablo Immortal is successful. D3 is one of the biggest successes in history of games. Objectively.

Though due to the context of D3's sales number It's safe to say it's regarded as a good game overall regardless of your or my view. It wouldn't gain these numbers in the way it did if people thought it was a bad game. Quoting numbers without context is indeed a weak argument, I did apply context though...

Well you're being pedantic here. The guy is saying D3 is a failure because it isn't a beloved hit like D2. Or are you saying that D3 is as good as D2? If so, why are you talking about sales figures?