New pala, lock, druid , DH and shaman race class combos

[Kellorion]

why wouldnt night elf warlocks just be normal warlocks and also have demon hunters?

and who the hell is talking about the green fire quest, im talking about skin, because when you mess with fel it changes you?

[WowIsDead64]

If some "NE can't be Warlocks" prevents Blizzard from adding Warlocks to all races, till they won't find some lore justification - then it's big problem.

Again. Class - is trainable thing. Even if some practices are forbidden within some race, there can always be exiles, who do it anyway. Just stop this "lore" BS already. Do it or don't. If you've already started to do it - then don't stop half way.

[Mace]

why wouldnt night elf warlocks just be normal warlocks and also have demon hunters?

and who the hell is talking about the green fire quest, im talking about skin, because when you mess with fel it changes you?

It's how you do it and in what quantities. The lore seems to make provision. Warlocks aren't usually affected by fel becuase they seldom directly handle it themselves, this has always been the case and Gul'dan is an exception. Direct handling of fel does change you , so in theory you could be a warlock that directly handles it and it changes you - but then so could anyone, which is why certain races like orcs, blood elves, Eredar man'ari, and the Illidari elves have been changed physically. The lore provides the instances and conditions that necessitate a customisation like that.

Who knows, maybe if they opened up demon hunters to every race, they might give warlocks access to fel customisations. If night elf warlocks came from Illidair elves, there would be a case to allow blood elf warlocks to have access to the illidari customisations that demon hunters have in addition tot heir normal customisation.. but the lore would have provided for that scenario.

I guess in the case that all races can become Illidari demon hunters, and then they added warlocks Illidari, then the lore would be player warlocks who took that customisation were essentially Illidari warlocks as this faction directly deals and handles fel.


Currently the class lore for the locks doesn't make provision for fel handling, warlocks are typically frowned upon, greatly in societies like humans, orcs, elves (at least high elves), dwarves, gnomes, Zandalari trolls etc. They don't seem prolific amongst blood elves either, not the current batch anyway that returned from Kael'thas. I would not expect them to be above ground amongst the Nightborne given recent history either, but who knows, the Nightborne may take the Illidari view point after Illidan's exploits and thus having changed that.

For these reasons and others, they would not want to go around town all fel scarred, demons will be hidden and they'd be operating in secret and behind the scenes -t hat is the fantasy of the warlock class - your thing is really demons, not fel. you want the power demons access, through controlling the demon so you can dominate and be powerful and get ahead of others - so you sign these demonic pacts, blood sacrficies and all that dark stuff to ge tthis advnatage - you don't want yourself all scarred and disfigured, the demons do the fel work, you control them. This is the ypical walrock fantasy and why walrokcs don't have fel scars or direct fel spells either.

Now, like we have seen other classes get variations of that class when adopting toa new race (blood knights, wildhammer hsaman, kul'tiran shaman, zanda palas, zanda druids, dark iron shaman, , Tauren pirest, Tuaren palas .. are just to name a few), these are variations of the classes they are called, htey are not the typical calss fantasy or the main class fantasy the visual effects are built upon.. but they allow a those races to beocme those thigns without trivialising htier lore.

Extending warlocks to the Ilidari has a similar effect. This isn't new to the Illidari off course, we had both blood elf and Eredar warlocks working as Illidari in TBc, and the illidari elves themselves do use demons a lot as well as fel, but their motivations are very different. It is possible to have an Illidari warlock playable - which is my recommendation for night elf walrocks and even Dranei ones (becuase making the normal night elf faction player a warlock is damaging ot the ir lore, as is making a normal draenei a warlock - and this is why we shouldn't have night elf warlocks be normal warlocks, the night elves we play (apart form the DH and DK) are the Darnassians that hate all things demonic and had their empire destroyed by the demons who stood fore everything they do not, chaos, destruction, filth, draining of life etc etc etc. Therefore, it's better if those races get warlocks they come from a faction outside the main one most of the playable classes are part of., a faction like the Illidari or the naga). To answer your question of....

why wouldn't night elf warlocks just be normal warlocks and also have demon hunters?

Warlocks aren't new to the Illidari and their motivations isn't out of love for demons or power to cheat and get ahead of others - their motivation is hatred for the evil and a dark willingness to use that same evil to defeat it, this is why they use demons and use fel and gain power, they're livid at the destruction the legion did to the night elf empire and want them totally destroyed, they don't believe Elune's power or the arcane sufficient, as the night elves were not able to turn the tide with those powers a lone, which is why Illidan decided to to start using fel

So these Illidari warlocks would simply be warlocks that use demons to destroy any who want to harm or suck the magic and life from our world and any remaining vestiges of the legion, and continue to use the highly dangerous fel and demons to accomplish this, htose that do it in away the warlock class works mechanically are warlocks, those who did it in the way the demon hunter class works mechanically are demon hunters. I'm not sure why this is hard to understand, it's actually one of the easiest developments to see.

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If some "NE can't be Warlocks" prevents Blizzard from adding Warlocks to all races, till they won't find some lore justification - then it's big problem.

Again. Class - is trainable thing. Even if some practices are forbidden within some race, there can always be exiles, who do it anyway. Just stop this "lore" BS already. Do it or don't. If you've already started to do it - then don't stop half way.

That's true, they can be exiles, they can be just individuals doing their thing. In the case of night elves though, because they have the Illidari faction, there is no reason for warlocks not be through this avenue anyway.. i mean, night elves already have a demon and fel using faction, that's crazy over those things - it is just mind bogling that instead, they'd disrupt the Darnassian harmony and re-unification they created to give them a new future, just to introduce warlocks to the main Darnassian body rather than use the Illidari night elves instead that are perfect for it.

Night elves in league with demons - again.. like the constant night elf lore hasn't rammed it into us, and shown how most Darnassians got over it, we got it again in Suramar with the Nightborne, so they should now do it again with Darnassain night elves? hey don't need to even have them as exiles, the Illidari are already exiles, they are the exile group, the demon using, fel using exiles .. sure they may work with the Darnassians from time to time, even have an embassy in their new city, but they are a different faction, and the Darnassins don't do fel.

Let's Think About What the Current State of these people would be.
Night elves who want to do fel, or do demons because they hate the legion and and greatly admire Illidan because he was the only one of the 4 orders - Elune, Nature, arcane and fel that was sufficiently effective against the legion where the others just suffered far greater losses than gains, makes sense. Especially after the recent Elune disillusionment form the War of thorns - I would expect Illidan to be greatly admired and popular even if still not accepted. It would be clear to night elves, that he wasn't' a betrayer , and was actually right a ll along - this would have massive ramifications, it won't be enough for night elves to embrace dangeorus fel, they hate demons, but it would be enough for some night elves who suffered at the hands of the legion badly AND are enamoured with Illidan feeling fighting fire with fire is the best way to end your enemies, to join forward and become either Warlocks or Demon hunter Illidari.. The story has already practically written itself.

[Soikona]

Whilst I agree that all should be able to, I think the two hero classes of DH and Evoker are the only exceptions. DH would need a good bit of lore to make it work but I can’t see how a bulky race like a Draenei or Tauren can be one considering how bulky they are. I know, it’s a high fantasy game but it would just seem odd. Surely if you are already that beefed up, fel magic infusion would benefit more so strength than speed?

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If some "NE can't be Warlocks" prevents Blizzard from adding Warlocks to all races, till they won't find some lore justification - then it's big problem.

Again. Class - is trainable thing. Even if some practices are forbidden within some race, there can always be exiles, who do it anyway. Just stop this "lore" BS already. Do it or don't. If you've already started to do it - then don't stop half way.

Lore is very important to some people, like to me. If it doesn’t fit, it shouldn’t work without lore. We are already shitting on lore, why encourage it more?

[Shadowferal]

We are already shitting on lore, why encourage it more?

That's usually the argument I hear for dismissing the lore. After all, since lore doesn't matter any more...

Bear in mind that I love lore...story-driven material..I have my own rewrite of lore that not only keeps race restrictions, but also rids the current lore of pesky idiosyncratic exceptions that some point out as examples for silly shit to ensue.

[WowIsDead64]

Lore is very important to some people, like to me. If it doesn’t fit, it shouldn’t work without lore. We are already shitting on lore, why encourage it more?

That's double standard. When Blizz release complete nonsense like SL, it's not "shitting on lore", but when it's very small cosmetic thing, like being able to just play race you like - all of a sudden it is.

[Shadowferal]

Hmf...to me Blizz shits on lore too often that I can understand why not many care about it....since WoD it just kept coming.

[Triceron]

Lore is very important to some people, like to me. If it doesn’t fit, it shouldn’t work without lore. We are already shitting on lore, why encourage it more?

Because the alternative is doing nothing, and Blizzard interested in just 'doing nothing' about new class comboes. I think they were pretty clear to say they wanted to look into opening it up across the board, just a matter of when and how, not if.

And it's gonna be more of the same shit, for better or for worse. Any NE Warlock would be on par with what we had in Cata with NE Mages being folded into their culture. It's shitting on the lore, and people are gonna live with it/forget about it by the time the next expansion arrives. That's been the case since TBC. We all live fine with Blood Elves on the Horde, hell some people even praise Blizzard for this shit.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

But Illidari way presents us with so many problems.
First - Blood Elf Warlocks. Are you going to give those same options to the other half of the Illidari?
Second - Green Fire. Why should Night Elves and Blood Elves start with green fire? Why should Orcs, Forsaken and other races start with regular looking warlock spells and if they want green fire - they have to grind / spend gold and do an outdated, but long-winded quest chain?
Third - Why is their no reason that the night elves can just become warlocks in the same way Sin'dorei and Humans become Warlocks? They just look normal?

Last - the Illidari Elite who weren't demon hunters were NOT fel users. None of them. The Illidari Elite comprised of Sin'dorei and within them, it was Sin'dorei Mages, Sin'dorei Priests, Sin'dorei Rogues and Sin'dorei Paladins. The only known Warlocks who were working with the Illidari were the Blood Elf and Fel Orc Warlocks in the Ruins of Karabor.
So the whole concept of "Elite Illidari Warlock" is a role-player thing. Not a lore-based thing as none truly existed in the lore. For all intensive purposes, the "Illidari Warlocks" were amongst the lower ranked fighters of the Illidari, used only for training the Demon Hunters.

It's far easier to just restore Eldre'Thalas and have Ren'dorei and Shen'dralar Loyalists of Tortheldrin, teach curious Night Elves about the ways of Fel and Shadow Magic. I mean, if we're seriously talking about light-wielding Void Elf Paladins who still look like void elves, then night elves from dire maul, learning about fel and becoming warlocks is nothing too outlandish.

[Spey]

Just stop this combos...tauren paladin is pretty disgusting by itself...

[Mace]

But Illidari way presents us with so many problems.
First - Blood Elf Warlocks. Are you going to give those same options to the other half of the Illidari?
Second - Green Fire. Why should Night Elves and Blood Elves start with green fire? Why should Orcs, Forsaken and other races start with regular looking warlock spells and if they want green fire - they have to grind / spend gold and do an outdated, but long-winded quest chain?
Third - Why is their no reason that the night elves can just become warlocks in the same way Sin'dorei and Humans become Warlocks? They just look normal?

Last - the Illidari Elite who weren't demon hunters were NOT fel users. None of them. The Illidari Elite comprised of Sin'dorei and within them, it was Sin'dorei Mages, Sin'dorei Priests, Sin'dorei Rogues and Sin'dorei Paladins. The only known Warlocks who were working with the Illidari were the Blood Elf and Fel Orc Warlocks in the Ruins of Karabor.
So the whole concept of "Elite Illidari Warlock" is a role-player thing. Not a lore-based thing as none truly existed in the lore. For all intensive purposes, the "Illidari Warlocks" were amongst the lower ranked fighters of the Illidari, used only for training the Demon Hunters.

It's far easier to just restore Eldre'Thalas and have Ren'dorei and Shen'dralar Loyalists of Tortheldrin, teach curious Night Elves about the ways of Fel and Shadow Magic. I mean, if we're seriously talking about light-wielding Void Elf Paladins who still look like void elves, then night elves from dire maul, learning about fel and becoming warlocks is nothing too outlandish.

Those aren't real problems Tanaria.

[Shadowferal]

Just stop this combos...tauren paladin is pretty disgusting by itself...

My rewrite of the lore would fix the Tauren. And also add certain "exceptions" with talents and specs.
Of course they wouldn't be part of the Horde. They instead would be part of the independent factions...

[Amnaught]

As long as they gatekeep forsaken paladins, everything else is ok

Ive said a million times that classes should be unlockable to justify them.

But with what they did to rogues, priests, and mages.... I'm no longer convinced this is a possibility.

As long as they have ANY questline justifying their existence, I'm fine with undead paladins existing. Sincerely hope whatever subfaction is created for them doesn't integrate as a major part of the Forsaken faction.

[Snowfunk]

I've wanted Undead Paladin since forever.

And I don't give a damn, if Priest & Paladin's are technically different, who cares, if they can be priest and wield the light, let them be Paladin's as well.

Worgen could be cool, since they are Human's underneath it all, but then I could see "losing" the practice over time. Did the Gilnean kingdom never have Paladin's?

But I don't understand, why can't Kul Tiran be Paladin's? Again, is there any legit lore reason why there can't be Kul Tiran Paladin's?

[Donkeywing]

but when it's very small cosmetic thing, like being able to just play race you like - all of a sudden it is.

Call races for what they are then; skin options. Because essentially that's what's happening and that's what you want. Turning the warcraft races into nothing more than your preferred skin choice for your class. It's degenerate. It is enormously naive to think there is no cost to this, no consequence, no one hating it. Especially longterm. The thrill of a new combo will fade, the damage is forever. When people refer to the ''magic days'' of warcraft, they're not referring to troll & undead paladins or other unholy combinations.

[WowIsDead64]

Call races for what they are then; skin options. Because essentially that's what's happening and that's what you want. Turning the warcraft races into nothing more than your preferred skin choice for your class. It's degenerate. It is enormously naive to think there is no cost to this, no consequence, no one hating it. Especially longterm. The thrill of a new combo will fade, the damage is forever. When people refer to the ''magic days'' of warcraft, they're not referring to troll & undead paladins or other unholy combinations.

Dunno how to call it properly. May be "bad choice"? I.e. when devs add some RP choice, but it's bad for game, not good. Something on a par with PVP servers, where wrong choice => lots of problems for players, who would hate themselves for doing it. I have favorite races. Playing race I don't like just to play certain class - is bad game design. I don't like Goblins, I don't like Orks. Why should I play them, if I want to play Warlock? And. Damage to lore is already done. By BFA with it's made up war. By SL with it's Jaylor and his master plan. Why didn't you complain about it? Hypocrisy, yeah.

[Shadowferal]

When people refer to the ''magic days'' of warcraft, they're not referring to troll & undead paladins or other unholy combinations.

True.
That was back when story and lore mattered more...there was a depth to the game that made me want to invest time to it...and explore every zone.

Dunno how to call it properly. May be "bad choice"?

How about "wrong game?"

[Mace]

I've wanted Undead Paladin since forever.

And I don't give a damn, if Priest & Paladin's are technically different, who cares, if they can be priest and wield the light, let them be Paladin's as well.

Exactly, any race that can be a priest and a warrior can be paladin. technically shouldn't that be stretechable to any race that can wield divine magic (either light or void) and has a martial class (typically swordsman, but in theory could be rangers/bards/archers too) can be a holy warrior and use that justification to have say Night warrior version of a paladin for night elves or void knights for void elves, death knights for Forsaken or rather Dark Knights, since Death knight is something else now.

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Call races for what they are then; skin options. Because essentially that's what's happening and that's what you want. Turning the warcraft races into nothing more than your preferred skin choice for your class. It's degenerate. It is enormously naive to think there is no cost to this, no consequence, no one hating it. Especially longterm. The thrill of a new combo will fade, the damage is forever. When people refer to the ''magic days'' of warcraft, they're not referring to troll & undead paladins or other unholy combinations.

Sadly agreed, I remember playing SWTOR, and just feeling a distinct loss of race being anything of pride, relevance or importance - itwas just a skin option, there was no fantasy involved, no racials, and you could be any class you wanted (on the same faction) but unlock (through payment off course) to be that race on any faction too.

It gave me NO inspiration to pick a class purely based on a race, whereas in warcraft I sometimes have replayed an entire class because i also wanted a version also on another race.

[Shadowferal]

Exactly, any race that can be a priest and a warrior can be paladin. technically shouldn't that be stretechable to any race that can wield divine magic (either light or void) and has a martial class (typically swordsman, but in theory could be rangers/bards/archers too) can be a holy warrior and use that justification to have say Night warrior version of a paladin for night elves or void knights for void elves, death knights for Forsaken or rather Dark Knights, since Death knight is something else now.
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Sadly agreed, I remember playing SWTOR, and just feeling a distinct loss of race being anything of pride, relevance or importance - itwas just a skin option, there was no fantasy involved, no racials, and you could be any class you wanted (on the same faction) but unlock (through payment off course) to be that race on any faction too.
It gave me NO inspiration to pick a class purely based on a race, whereas in warcraft I sometimes have replayed an entire class because i also wanted a version also on another race.

Rather contradictory...I'm reading your post as "anything goes" for race/class, but lament homogenization.

[Kellorion]

no DHs being any races, only elves, orcs or reg. draenei

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also why do you keep connecting the n.elf locks to the illidari like it has to be that way