Two abilities that need to be removed: Blade of Justice and Divine Steed

[Le Conceptuel]

It is Holy now.

In that case, no mechanical changes would be needed to switch it around. I can see I'm seemingly in the minority here, but I say go for it.

[Dark-Zarupia]

the steed looks ridiculous and needs to go and be replaced with speed of light we had during cata. Also bring that "heroic leap thing" Yrel has in Hots

[shane brannigan]

So basically we need to remove divine speed because you disapprove of the visual aesthetic chosen...

Sounds fair. fuck it, no mobility buffs for paladins.

[Alanar]

Why wouldn't they be? The only major issue with Divine Steed was that it was on the GCD.

That was fixed with 10.0.7 finally, and they increased the duration of it. With the talent points, it's got a pretty good duration on it, around like 8 seconds I want to say but off the top of my head I can't recall

There were multiple complains about the pony, you named one.

Next to the gcd, another major issue with it, is that it can be slowed. I had atleast hoped for a : cant be slowed below 75% or something at least. It takes 3 talents for it to be somewhat good. With freedom being able to be dispelled, I cant see myself not taking hollowed ground pvp talent in combination with concentraded blades. I had hoped for a bit more flexibility regarding those talent points as well. I noticed In pvp yesterday I still got myself in situation.. I need to use freedom+pony. That sucks.. still after all these years, it feela bad imo.

Also I find the pony visually very unappealing since its release. No idea why we cant have a glyph that changes that.

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the steed looks ridiculous and needs to go and be replaced with speed of light we had during cata. Also bring that "heroic leap thing" Yrel has in Hots

The leap would have been way cooler, but this will not happen. Blizz seems to forget the leap is a pally thing.

Its that warriors already had is, but thematically it fits pally better. When did we ever see heroic leap as shown on npcs or warrior heroes? Compared to multiple in game cinematics, npc and even outside wow that show how wings+leap is an iconic paladin thing. Turalyon, yrel, arrator etc etc.

Its hard to ignore that fantasy, blizz just forgot that.

[Tiwack]

It's a sword summoned below your opponent and shoved up their bum, what's not to like about Blade of Justice???

Just make Divine Steed pony-sized to reflect its duration/hide some of the bad old mount-animations/pocket-mobility usable in combat should be pocketsized and not fully mountsized, this has always was been confusing at a glace since so many mounts are blinged out these days and easy to mistake for divine steeds.

Pala has always been one of the harder classes to balance and design good gameplay for, they have it all on paper and so they're made to come up short in these weird ways because a Divine Mafūba would break the game 10/10 + making everything outside of melee range hit like a wet noodle won't feel great either and so the blade of justice is sorta the middle-ground that's been settled on with this matter.

[Firann]

Having an ability like Divine Steed makes more sense for Death Knights to be honest. Without the divine of course. They are Knights after all.. Also, think 4 horsemen. They are all mounted.

There is a reason the 4 horsemen are mounted. They are all ex paladins. If i am not mistaken most named original death knights are paladins (Baron Rivendare is not a paladin)

Warcraft paladins (at least before WC3) were mounted. I mean they were upgrades from knights. Also, historically the first paladins are associated with the 12 knights of Charlemange who were christian knights fighting the muslin saracins. Hence the connection with the deities in games etc.

Paladins should definitely keep the charger. The only thing that doesn't make sense, other than gameplay balancing, is why we have an instant cast short duration version but the normal version has a cast time. The out of combat one should have also been in instant cast or both versions have a 0.5 or max 1 sec cast time so it has counter play.

Better yet only a 1 sec version usuable out of combat and in combat should be available that disappears after x amount of dmg or after casting a melee ability.

[Jester Joe]

There were multiple complains about the pony, you named one.

Next to the gcd, another major issue with it, is that it can be slowed. I had atleast hoped for a : cant be slowed below 75% or something at least. It takes 3 talents for it to be somewhat good. With freedom being able to be dispelled, I cant see myself not taking hollowed ground pvp talent in combination with concentraded blades. I had hoped for a bit more flexibility regarding those talent points as well. I noticed In pvp yesterday I still got myself in situation.. I need to use freedom+pony. That sucks.. still after all these years, it feela bad imo.

Also I find the pony visually very unappealing since its release. No idea why we cant have a glyph that changes that.

I don't know why people kept asking for the slow resistance/immunity. Last I checked, basically every sprint ability can be slowed, with some exceptions like DKs. The only other class I know off the top of my head with a slow cap is shaman, which only works while in ghost wolf which means they can't do anything else. The real issue was having to use 2GCDs to get to go anywhere while other classes had no GCD on their movement.

[Alanar]

I don't know why people kept asking for the slow resistance/immunity. Last I checked, basically every sprint ability can be slowed, with some exceptions like DKs. The only other class I know off the top of my head with a slow cap is shaman, which only works while in ghost wolf which means they can't do anything else. The real issue was having to use 2GCDs to get to go anywhere while other classes had no GCD on their movement.

You first say you dont understand and then followed up by explaining the major flaw of it. Exactly what I was pointing out. Freedom+pony is pretty much mandotory if you wanna make actual use of the pony. Which is 2 gcd to make it worthwhile.

Almost everyone since dawn of time has been asking to juts give the prot version to ret and be done with it. Its nothing new tbh. The way it they did it, is okeyish, still dont like I have to spend 3 points to make it *somewhat * good.

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There is a reason the 4 horsemen are mounted. They are all ex paladins. If i am not mistaken most named original death knights are paladins (Baron Rivendare is not a paladin)

Warcraft paladins (at least before WC3) were mounted. I mean they were upgrades from knights. Also, historically the first paladins are associated with the 12 knights of Charlemange who were christian knights fighting the muslin saracins. Hence the connection with the deities in games etc.

Paladins should definitely keep the charger. The only thing that doesn't make sense, other than gameplay balancing, is why we have an instant cast short duration version but the normal version has a cast time. The out of combat one should have also been in instant cast or both versions have a 0.5 or max 1 sec cast time so it has counter play.

Better yet only a 1 sec version usuable out of combat and in combat should be available that disappears after x amount of dmg or after casting a melee ability.

And then you have uther and arthas paladin heroes at first in warcraft 3 not using any of this, until he becomes a death knight.

Actual usage of steeds in combat is more a dk thing for sure. There have been more dk mounted characters in game like that. The 4 horseman all raised into undeath and their steed into undeath as well and actually use them in combat. We rarely see paladins in lore using mounted combat at all.
I never thought it was a fun or interesting fantasy they tried to push.

[Jester Joe]

You first say you dont understand and then followed up by explaining the major flaw of it. Exactly what I was pointing out. Freedom+pony is pretty much mandotory if you wanna make actual use of the pony. Which is 2 gcd to make it worthwhile.

Almost everyone since dawn of time has been asking to juts give the prot version to ret and be done with it. Its nothing new tbh. The way it they did it, is okeyish, still dont like I have to spend 3 points to make it *somewhat * good

Don't put words in my mouth lol.

I didn't say I don't understand, I said I don't know why because the logic is faulty. The explanation is why.

You're not asking to be equal at that point, you're asking to be better than almost every other melee. It's currently one GCD to use steed and HoF since steed is off the GCD, which is on par with other classes who have a way to purge or surpress snares.

And you realize Divine Steed has been equal for a while right? And currently prot doesn't put the points into the better steed because they use it elsewhere, right?

[Alanar]

Don't put words in my mouth lol.

I didn't say I don't understand, I said I don't know why because the logic is faulty. The explanation is why.

You're not asking to be equal at that point, you're asking to be better than almost every other melee. It's currently one GCD to use steed and HoF since steed is off the GCD, which is on par with other classes who have a way to purge or surpress snares.

And you realize Divine Steed has been equal for a while right? And currently prot doesn't put the points into the better steed because they use it elsewhere, right?

And now you are putting words in my mouth?

I didnt ask for anything lol, I said this was the overwhelming feedback that was given since its introduction. Hencs the stupid debate about steed. The majority basically said the same thing, give ret the prot version and keep the rest the same if you dont give rets any other option. And be done with it. The reduction in cd etc came later, that was their choice eventually after considering other options.

Steed has always been lackluster and the cd was just to long for not having some kind of da treatment. Now that its slightly longer (sl duration) and of the gcd, just makes it easier to use the same freedom+pony combo, but thats it. The reason people started to question steed even more for pvp, was when people found out freedom was now dispellable, thus making that combo even worse. The fantasy is also lacking for me.. it felt slightly better for prot, with the pushback etc fantasy wise, but outside that.. uch its just not that interesting.

I agree that wings of liberty fits right into true ret fantasy. We have more rpressentation of golden wings leaping then any paladin fighting on a steed. The only things that comes to mind are.. crusader colleseum in wrath and some hearthstone cards.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Agreed on Blade of Justice looking inconspicuous in Warcraft.

Paladins already summon light hammers with judgement, divine storm and other skills

A hammer of wrath physically materializes in the paladin's hand before he hurls it at his enemy. The Divine Storm hammers don't look solid, and instead more looks like a storm of yellow magic that happens to be shaped as hammers.

Blade of Justice's animation depicts a solid sword materializing out of the ground with no physical contact with the paladin.

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Its that warriors already had is

There is already a lot of overlap in abilities between classes. Warriors have an ability where they charge to their target. So do bear druids and hunters. Demon Hunters could unfurl their wings to glide. So can Dracthyr now. Rogues and cat druids have perma stealth, and hunters and mages have temporary stealth. And so on. Warriors and Paladins both having leaps would not be the end of the world.

[Alanar]

Warriors and Paladins both having leaps would not be the end of the world.

I mean I agree, but this is what blizz said sadly..