Diablo 4 is bad.

[Edge-]

Another "gem" brought to you by the fucking idiots running Blizzard these days. Mob scaling in WoW was one of the worst decisions they ever made. Mob scaling in Diablo 4 is equally bad and equally stupid. These games are all about gaining power, and for some reason they thought mob scaling was a good feature to add.

I don't care for "it's open world" as a reason. Make an adventure mode then. But if I'm going through the campaign, it's nonsensical for the mobs I'm butchering at level 1 to take as long to kill at level 50.

Honestly, there's big problems all around. Feels like they made this game with no solid direction and didn't innovate anywhere. The character creation, for instance, was more in-depth in Diablo Immortal. Embarrassing. How can DI do anything better than D4? How can they allow that to happen?

I'm all for scaling in general. IMO it's great and it preserves a lot of the world/content and can keep it "relevant" at endgame rather than functionally delete 80% of the world as "just leveling content".

But D4 handles it in a bad way IMO, where you just straight up get less powerful as you level up through the campaign which...is 100% the fuckin opposite of what should happen.

[Biomega]

I'm all for scaling in general. IMO it's great and it preserves a lot of the world/content and can keep it "relevant" at endgame rather than functionally delete 80% of the world as "just leveling content".

But D4 handles it in a bad way IMO, where you just straight up get less powerful as you level up through the campaign which...is 100% the fuckin opposite of what should happen.

It might be the class balance that's the problem here. Some classes don't "grow" the same way others do, and so the scaling feels off. VASTLY different experience between Sorc and Barb for me, for example - with a Sorc, I did actually feel I was significantly more powerful as I leveled up, with more tools and more damage at my disposal. Whereas with a Barb it seemed to dip each time, because there just wasn't all that much going on and the extra damage etc. from enemies was all the more noticeable because I got hit more.

Maybe they just need to adjust scaling factors based on class?

[prwraith]

That's your subjective take. Don't try to spin it as some actual gospel truth.

I mean,

This is in response to someone who says D4 is objectively the best game of the series. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to take my posts as gospel lmao. It's very clearly my opinion

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Slower gameplay is better, dashing around and blowing up mobs like D3 is not what and ARPG is about.
Story is fine not many are playing the game for the story.
Open world doesnt effect story telling.
Again most ppl just skip dialogue, most ppl dont play games for the story its just something for access to the actual gameplay.
.

Ok

A) What an aRPG is about is debatable, and as is whether slow gameplay is appropriate to quote that other guy...stop saying that as if it's a gospel truth lol
B) your takedown of the story boils down to...it doesn't matter if it sucks nobody plays for the story


Like wut

[Zenfoldor]

Yeah, that guy thinks "multiplayer = better", like its some universal truth.

Anyway, at least we still have Bethesda.

Yep, multiplayer most often sucks. ESPECIALLY lobby games.

It is the natty light of gaming, but I'm only buying Old Rip Van Winkle.

For some gaming is a social lubricant. For me, it's actually something I do for its own sake.

The novelty of playing with others for the sake of playing with others...wore off a long, long time ago, for me. Unless it brings interesting new mechanics, like perhaps Among Us or Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, I'm over it. ESPECIALLY f2p shooters with no story or campaign, wow. Just no.

That said, I can confirm that Destiny 2 still has the best gameplay from a fps perspective. Co-op can also be great fun, like It Takes Two. Live service games have a lot of work to do, to claw their way back to good from the curse of the "live service" moniker.

[Gaidax]

It might be the class balance that's the problem here. Some classes don't "grow" the same way others do, and so the scaling feels off. VASTLY different experience between Sorc and Barb for me, for example - with a Sorc, I did actually feel I was significantly more powerful as I leveled up, with more tools and more damage at my disposal. Whereas with a Barb it seemed to dip each time, because there just wasn't all that much going on and the extra damage etc. from enemies was all the more noticeable because I got hit more.

Maybe they just need to adjust scaling factors based on class?

There is absolutely that early game.

Sorc is easily the no.1, because it does not even need any legendaries at all - you get to level 15, do your class quest, slap Fireball into enchant slot and you suddenly clear whole screens of trash in sub-2 seconds. As Sorc player I sure did not feel going weaker, starting level 15 it was blasting and even more blasting pumping points into key skills.

Necro, is the same, except instead it gets Corpse Explosion no CD AoE skill that they can spam starting level 7 or so. It's not the level of Fireball enchant, but if you get Blood Mist legendary - oboi.

I got both of the above to 25 and they sure as hell don't grow weaker.


I hear Rogue is fine as well.

So the only 2 culprits are Barb and Druid. Barb I hear gets better by 25, but Druid remains shit - I guess that where some Blizz attention should go.

[HansOlo]

Imagine if you would play CS 1.6 again. No, you woulnd't - you outgrew it. You are in a different need, you might not even relate back to then.

If any of you ever played Diablo before - you know it's all about endgame. It's about not a leveling experience and it's not about storyline.

You should atleast consider the endgame part, before sharing any wisdom.

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It's fairly mediocre, it's competent at what it does... at early game.

No way to tell how endgame is, but I've a feeling its the same as early game.

Cow level is the same as early game in D2? Or portals, paragon etc. in D3?

Let's think.

[Gaidax]

Are you saying you tried this out in D4? Because it’s interesting you imply the endgame grind will be enjoyable, even though most of us here don’t know the basic things about it yet.

I really think that on this end it's down to what a person wants from their game.

Me myself - I know very well that if I grab some ARPG - at most I do 2-3 seasons and then put it away for years and many indeed just play it for a story + a bit of messing around for another 20 hours if that.

Diablo, in the end is an ARPG - it will have a token story that won't rival any actual full blown RPGs, which really is par the course for Diablo franchise, because it's just not this kind of franchise and game.

I think people need to set their expectations straight - in the end it will be a standard ARPG hack and slash grind game where you will use 1-2 main abilities to do 90% of what you need and the story there will mainly just function as a driver to point you in the general mobs direction to eviscerate. They will embellish it with some features/game modes/stuff to make it seem more than it actually is and some of it will fail, while some may succeed.

It will have its seasons that will work like every other season in almost every other Diablo game ever. And that's about it.

So basically, yet another Diablo game.

[beanman12345]

So much damn sodium, rofl.

I just want to hop back on my rogue. Gonna be a long 2 months till launch...

[Majestic12]

Imagine disliking a game and comparing it to another one when you only got to see about 1% of it, with zero endgame systems unlocked, no adventure mode or bounties to complete,

Like I mentioned in my post, Endgame has been tested already and leaked. We know what it's going to be. It's not some mysterious part of the game that nobody knows anything about.

It's interesting though that you ignored that part and resorted to toxicity anyway.

[The Oblivion]

Like I mentioned in my post, Endgame has been tested already and leaked. We know what it's going to be. It's not some mysterious part of the game that nobody knows anything about.

It's interesting though that you ignored that part and resorted to toxicity anyway.

you think you know what its going to be. you dont actually know. big difference. those same "testers" *most people saying the were end game beta are full of shit* were the ones saying the legendary powers in beta and codex are 100% of the powers as well.

[NoiseTank13]

Imagine if you would play CS 1.6 again. No, you woulnd't - you outgrew it. You are in a different need, you might not even relate back to then.

If any of you ever played Diablo before - you know it's all about endgame. It's about not a leveling experience and it's not about storyline.

You should atleast consider the endgame part, before sharing any wisdom.

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Cow level is the same as early game in D2? Or portals, paragon etc. in D3?

Let's think.

Yeah let's think, are D2 and D3, D4?

[kenn9530]

A) What an aRPG is about is debatable, and as is whether slow gameplay is appropriate to quote that other guy...stop saying that as if it's a gospel truth lol
B) your takedown of the story boils down to...it doesn't matter if it sucks nobody plays for the story


Like wut

Its not debatable at all, an ARPG is not about moving across the screen and watching mobs blow up in seconds.

Also practically noone plays these games for the story, most ppl dont care about WoWs story they play it for gameplay, story doesnt matter in games because the story is not what keeps you playing. So it doesnt matter if a story is good or bad, all that matters is gameplay.

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What a ridiculous post, I could just as easily say the MMO aspect makes it factually worse, that it is only a downside with zero upsides, as it limits my options as a solo player, and anyone who disagrees just has bad taste.

Its just simple reality that MMO games are better than single player games, MMOs get played for years, while single player games get mostly forgotten.

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It's not even slower gameplay really. It's hugely dependent on class choice initially - Sorc blows whole screens up as soon as level 15 with Fireball enchantment. And it was the same in D2 btw too, barb started slow as fuck and sorcs blasted already by the time they got to monastery.

Story, imo has absolutely best opening of any Diablo game so far. I do think it trails off after that - so I can see some not clicking with it, that's fine - it's however subjective.

And class balance - typical Diablo thing really. Some classes start slow and some faster, aside from Druids - there aren't really "yuge" issues there.

Its fairly slow and the aoe effects are fairly small, your not spamming teleport and one shotting everything every other second, you gather some mobs up pop a few skills and then blow them up, and scaling difficulty later on will mean mobs dont just get destroyed instantly.

You wont know how classes really play until max level and you have access to all the legendery buffs so you can actually make builds.

[BrokenRavens]

Its not debatable at all, an ARPG is not about moving across the screen and watching mobs blow up in seconds.

Also practically noone plays these games for the story, most ppl dont care about WoWs story they play it for gameplay, story doesnt matter in games because the story is not what keeps you playing. So it doesnt matter if a story is good or bad, all that matters is gameplay.

Ok that is not true....

Its just simple reality that MMO games are better than single player games, MMOs get played for years, while single player games get mostly forgotten.

That is not true either...

Its fairly slow and the aoe effects are fairly small, your not spamming teleport and one shotting everything every other second, you gather some mobs up pop a few skills and then blow them up, and scaling difficulty later on will mean mobs dont just get destroyed instantly.

You wont know how classes really play until max level and you have access to all the legendery buffs so you can actually make builds.

Maybe? We have no idea what the pacing will be like at max level. And people who are here for the story, want to see the story, they are not gathering up mobs...

EDIT:

This is "Fudgemuppet's" youtube page.

https://www.youtube.com/@FudgeMuppet

He posts exclusively about the Elder scrolls lore (aka the story), focusing mainly on the single player games.

He has over 1 mil followers and two weeks ago he posted a Skyrim (single player game) character build that recieved 73k views. How old is Skyrim? And it's still getting that sort of views?

***

Here is "Oxhorn's" youtube site.

https://www.youtube.com/@oxhorn/playlists

He has hundreds of videos about Fallout lore, the latest being 4 days ago with 41k views...

***

Shall I go on?

Stop saying people don't play single player games.

And that no one plays for the story.

And that they get quickly forgotten.

If they are done well, that is not true.

Edit: Part 2

Here is the "MKIceFire" you tube video showing the no commentary playthrough of the first half for the Diablo 4 beta:



So basically the video of the games story. 317k views.

[Ringthane]

How is what they said "valid"?

They literally complained that you can "fly into packs and annihilate them" and then instead list that you should be able to jump into packs and...annihilate them. But with different flavor abilities.

They complained that gear doesn't feel strong, but ignore that there's gear that has +1 to skills you can get skills without ever having to pay points to obtain them. Also wanting a button for damage reduction, while ignoring that there ARE abilities that do that, and there's gear that does that.

Their complaints are basically the equivalent of swiss cheese. There's far too many holes or contradictory statements that it comes across as "If I fill a wall of text, no one will actually read it".

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OP presenting their opinion as a fact.

I really don't see the point of trying to "OPINIONS ARE SUBJECTIVE!!" to someone disagreeing with a person who's trying to present their opinion as objective.

He said "Wrong. Diablo 4 is good. It is fun." It is not, and I say he is wrong.

That's what I was trying to say. And I think you know that.

[upirlikhyi]

He said "Wrong. Diablo 4 is good. It is fun." It is not, and I say he is wrong.

That's what I was trying to say. And I think you know that.

While its a small sample size of myself and 19 other people I know who tried the beta we all liked it.

But everyone has their own opinion...

Have a good day

[themortalgod]

It is nothing like Diablo 3's. Because this let's you make your own custom legendaries.

Its basically the same thing, ok maybe the delivery is slightly different but the concept of being able to detach a legendary effect from an item and then apply it to your character is D3 concept, this is just a logical next step.

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3 legendary powers Vs legendary powers on all gear.
the ability to fuse the power into the best rares, that's not a slight alter

They took an existing concept and doubled down on it, that's all. They didn't re-invent any wheels.

[Jester Joe]

He said "Wrong. Diablo 4 is good. It is fun." It is not, and I say he is wrong.

That's what I was trying to say. And I think you know that.

That is literally the complete opposite of what you said before, what are you even talking about

You straight up criticized them saying that everyone's allowed to have their own opinion, and NOW you're trying to say "But your opinion is wrong".

Which was the point the other poster was making, that people disagree so the game isn't bad objectively.

[Edge-]

Its not debatable at all, an ARPG is not about moving across the screen and watching mobs blow up in seconds.

Path of Exile and Torchlight Infinite disagree. It absolutely can be. It can be a lot of things, and the glory days of zoom-zoom PoE where people were wiping screens instantly and clearing maps in under a minute? One tapping bosses? (all of which still happens) Still a great ARPG and that was fuck as fuck, let me tell you.

Also practically noone plays these games for the story, most ppl dont care about WoWs story they play it for gameplay, story doesnt matter in games because the story is not what keeps you playing. So it doesnt matter if a story is good or bad, all that matters is gameplay.

See, I don't play these games for the story. But a lot of people do, especially a game like Diablo where many have really only played it for the story rather than the longterm grind. Because narrative-based ARPG's were and still are a thing as well. Dungeon Siege 3? Narrative ARPG, not a longterm grinder. Played it, it was fine for a one-shot. Wouldn't have wanted to do a grindy, longterm endgame even if it did have one.

Its just simple reality that MMO games are better than single player games, MMOs get played for years, while single player games get mostly forgotten.

That is not what "better" means. You can prefer MMO's to single player games, but that's a purely subjective value assessment for every individual person. How long a game is played for is largely irrelevant to how good it is.

[prwraith]

Its not debatable at all, an ARPG is not about moving across the screen and watching mobs blow up in seconds.
.

I see you've identified yourself as an open-minded individual. I'm glad *your* definition of an aRPG is the only one.

Also practically noone plays these games for the story, most ppl dont care about WoWs story they play it for gameplay, story doesnt matter in games because the story is not what keeps you playing. So it doesnt matter if a story is good or bad, all that matters is gameplay.

And a second obnoxiously bad quote in one post.

Could he be more wrong in one day, I think not.

[FelPlague]

Its basically the same thing, ok maybe the delivery is slightly different but the concept of being able to detach a legendary effect from an item and then apply it to your character is D3 concept, this is just a logical next step.

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They took an existing concept and doubled down on it, that's all. They didn't re-invent any wheels.

That's not how it works... Did you play Diablo 4?
You do not detach the effect and add it to yourself. You can move it from one item to another

Diablo 3 you could have a legendary on every slot, and then a max power legendary armor, jewelry, and weapon. However they only gave you the effect.

In Diablo 4 you can extract legendary powers from an item you like the power of, say a low level or horribly rolled legendary, and put it onto a rare item with good rolls to make it a legendary


Again they are nothing alike. Diablo 3 let you apply these powers to your charecter as you said. Diablo 4 does not, instead it lets you make your own legendaries using powers you acquire.