Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

In WoW, black and neon green means Fel magic. If the creators did not want to suggest a connection to fel magic, then they should not have coded him as such.

Not really. You're inventing rules where there aren't any.

[Houle]

The HS design is inspired by an older artwork of Y'Shaarj:

Regardless, it is clear that a lot of thought was put into designing Y'Shaarj, as with all other Old Gods.

I also don't know why you and others here are making such a big deal out of Y'Shaarj having green colours in his design... since when did the Legion have a monopoly on the green colour lol? Yogg-Saron also had shades of green.

That "older artwork" is literally also from HS.

And people are questioning it because it doesnt fit with anything weve ever seen of Y'Shaarjs power. As was already said, neither the Sha nor his heart even had the slightest hint of green. It was black/white/purple/blue. So the fact that they randomly chose to give him fel green is either a very poor design choice, or has a specific reason. Probably the former, altho the latter would be neat.

And Yogg isnt even comparable lol. Yogg has teal colours bc when Yogg was created, the old gods werent void creatures, bc the "Void" as a faction didnt exist at all. Back in TBC/WOTLK, the Void was merely used as another word for the Nether, for the most part. And the OGs were their own thing, with no overarching "cosmic force" behind them.

However, when this art for Y'Shaarj was made, Chronicles was already a thing, and with it cosmic forces with defining colour palettes.

Not really. You're inventing rules where there aren't any.

To be fair, the plague of undeath is green because it was created from fel in the original WC3 lore (as was necromancy as a whole), and because green is generally associated with disease in many games. And nature has a very different shade of green than fel.

[Revamp Man]

How? He was made and imprisoned when Dragon Isles were inaccessible.

The dragon's focus is elsewhere
Twilight cult is returning
He could fight on par with multiple aspects

Give me my tiamat

[Houle]

That may actually be possible, and is likely the case tbh.

- - - Updated - - -



Black and Neon Green doesn't automatically mean Fel at all...

The Plague (Black and Green usages mostly), the Void (which uses Black colored magics), etc...

- - - Updated - - -



The Sha have LOTS of different looks and colors to them, and Y'Shaarj's heart just means it's pumping with primal Shadow magics. His body is still purple and his powers can still be Green, cause that can also represent "Jade" esc stuff, etc. He himself has the body of a mutant Serpent.

- - - Updated - - -

Why is this idea so hard for y'all to imagine?

Ffs, N'Zoth's first appearance was in Hearthstone, same with guys like the Tortillans and whatnot.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the Sha of Fear has Purple and Red...

Does that mean it's been touched by N'Zoth???

Don't answer that btw, that was rhetorical, cause of fucking course it wasn't touched by N'Zoth.

- - - Updated - - -

Y'all are gonna be so fucking mad when y'all realize the Void Lords are gonna have a variety of different looks and ordeals to them...

Congrats on reiterating what most people here have already said, while completely missing the important points and arguments.

Also, why the fuck would Y'Shaarj represent jade in any way lol. You do know he himself had nothing to do with Pandaria before his heart was stashed there?

And again, same as with Yogg, the fckn Sha were designed BEFORE old gods were void creatures, and before the different cosmic forces had very much defined color palettes. Y'Shaarj was not.

And while individual Void lords will DEFINITELY look different from one another (as they should, bc imagine if all of them would just be purple clouds), there wont be one thats fel green. Feel free to save this comment for the moment we see them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This color discussion reminds me if a muse I had about Fel Magic having another color, Red. Basically more hardcore then Fel green. Not relevant to Dragonflight but.... we get off topic often so >.>

[Nathanyel]

This color discussion reminds me if a muse I had about Fel Magic having another color, Red. Basically more hardcore then Fel green. Not relevant to Dragonflight but.... we get off topic often so >.>

Like when Orcs or Eredar turn red under sustained Fel influence.

While games and especially Warcraft use a lot of color-coding, devs and artists also want a good bit of contrast in character designs, so unusual colors on individual* characters* don't have to mean too much.

* weird to use these words to describe an Old God.

[Villager720]

This color discussion reminds me if a muse I had about Fel Magic having another color, Red. Basically more hardcore then Fel green. Not relevant to Dragonflight but.... we get off topic often so >.>

To be fair, when we get deep into Antorus, the fel stuff turns angry red. And Gul’dan’s eyes radiate red energy, not green.

So there’s definitely something to the “mega condensed fel be red” notion.

[Wangming]

To be fair, when we get deep into Antorus, the fel stuff turns angry red. And Gul’dan’s eyes radiate red energy, not green.

So there’s definitely something to the “mega condensed fel be red” notion.

And since we are talking about colour, it is funny how the Emerald Nightmare is red.

[Wangming]

Why is it funny? Just means the Nightmare has a dark reddish look compared to the Green we're all used to. Red is also kinda Void esc also, and can be used in many aspects for things that are opposing to Dreams and Happiness n shit.

- - - Updated - - -

Like imagine a nightmarish looking Wonderland. Would be akin to the Emerald Nightmare really...

Hell, the Dream is like Wonderland, funny enough, just with far more trees and less queen BS...

I know the logic behind it. But it is called the EMERALD nightmare, yet has a very distinct red colour. If you can't find humour in that, I don't think I can help with words.

- - - Updated - - -

Is it, though? The way the WoL is all-important and loved by all protagonists is much more cringe than BfA's constant "Champion!", and the ingame-graphic cutscenes, despite getting heavy mileage, haven't evolved from "characters standing around, talking, sometimes awkwardly shuffling on the spot to turn a different direction, then a pair of running boots or other body part hint of a 'surprise' appearance of a fan-favorite character, followed by the talking people turning and gasping, one by one"

Tbh WoW's current cinematics, even those rendered in real-time, feel much more dynamic.

I'm not saying you don't have a point, but for me presentation wins by default because the story is actually present in the game. Now it is okay to just hide some cool lore tidbits in other places for you to hunt, but when important parts of the story are delegated to tie-in books, I grow resentful.

[VinceVega]

Why would any raider need pets as rewards? Don't they already get the best gear?

Pet battlers often do not play raids.

Does anyone really believe raids will become popular again because.. they drop pets now?

And you also get gear outside of raids? Your point?

[Varodoc]

This is a video game. A visual medium. If a setting element is in frame, it’s because the creators want it there. WoW's factions and schools of magic are given particular aesthetics and color codes to denote their magical nature and affiliation. In WoW, black and neon green means Fel magic. If the creators did not want to suggest a connection to fel magic, then they should not have coded him as such.

"Black and neon green means Fel" is a WoD and Legion invention, before that the Legion also used a lot of red. It's WoD and Legion that spammed green everywhere. Notice how everyone was complaining about "Green" fatigue in WoD and Legion but no one gave a shit in TBC? Maybe it's because back then the Legion wasn't so Green-coded.

Furthermore, I don' see any green on their actual leader and creator:




You are objectively proven wrong by Sargeras, master and creator of the Legion, not having even one shade of green on his body. Not even his eyes are green. And we know that Sargeras, like all his servants, was infused and transformed by the Fel.

Green is also typically associated with Life, most of the Wild Gods are Green, the Titan Eonar is also Green, the Emerald Dream is Green, so No, Fel does not have a monopoly on the colour "Green".

Beyond that, it's possible that the Old Gods, in their power, learned how to manipulate Fel. We already know for a fact that Yogg-Saron, despite being a puppet of the Void, dubbed himself the "God of Death", and his blood (created by the Void Lords) was used by the Undead Scourge as building material. But it's yet to be proven that the energy coming from Y'Shaarj is Fel. Even if it was, there's nothing in the lore that says Old Gods can't use Fel. Void elves can be Warlocks and even Demon Hunters (Hearthstone) despite being Void-infused, so there's no reason why an Old God couldn't use Fel.

[Wangming]

This guy seems allergic to speaking clearly, but it is still nice to have all of the playable areas revisited in terms of rebuilding from the Cataclysm and possible Old God Threats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Lv...l=Doronsmovies EK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ti...l=Doronsmovies Kalimdor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKf5...l=Doronsmovies Northrend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e173...l=Doronsmovies Outland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXMU...l=Doronsmovies Pandaria

Since we are already on the topic fo Y'shaarj. It would interesting if the "Revamp" Ended up being Old God Related. Granted even I don't think revamping all five continents at once is remotely possible (although it would make for a great new player experience). But if all of them end up being stirred back, we could at least see action in Southern Kalimdor (Silithus, Tanaris, Un'Goro, Uldum) Northrend (Storm Peaks and extending into Icecrown and/or Zul'Drak), Pandaria (At least the Dread Wastes) and Lordaeron (Tirisfal and at least Silverpine, but I wouldn't mind if the revamp affected Gilneas as well. And if we finally added Quel'Thalas). The latter mostly because that has had some interesting developments these days and should be reflected in the zone, but also because that was where we found Xal'atath.

[Varodoc]

This guy seems allergic to speaking clearly, but it is still nice to have all of the playable areas revisited in terms of rebuilding from the Cataclysm and possible Old God Threats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Lv...l=Doronsmovies EK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ti...l=Doronsmovies Kalimdor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKf5...l=Doronsmovies Northrend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e173...l=Doronsmovies Outland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXMU...l=Doronsmovies Pandaria

Since we are already on the topic fo Y'shaarj. It would interesting if the "Revamp" Ended up being Old God Related. Granted even I don't think revamping all five continents at once is remotely possible (although it would make for a great new player experience). But if all of them end up being stirred back, we could at least see action in Southern Kalimdor (Silithus, Tanaris, Un'Goro, Uldum) Northrend (Storm Peaks and extending into Icecrown and/or Zul'Drak), Pandaria (At least the Dread Wastes) and Lordaeron (Tirisfal and at least Silverpine, but I wouldn't mind if the revamp affected Gilneas as well. And if we finally added Quel'Thalas). The latter mostly because that has had some interesting developments these days and should be reflected in the zone, but also because that was where we found Xal'atath.

There is an even easier solution, why not simply make a Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor, during the Black Empire days? The Ny'alotha raid already gives us a very small fraction of what the Black Empire could have looked like, and Dragonflight called back to that ancient era, and many documents from Dragonflight document the truth of that era and the lies of the Titans. Why not have Dragonflight end with the return of Murozond, leading to an Infinite Dragonflight/Old God/Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor?

And inb4 "BUT WOD WAS HATED!!!"; It was hated because all the time travel stuff was explained in a book that only 1000 people bought.

This is is a much better and simpler solution to conciliate an expansion about the Old God return and a possible "world revamp" (it wouldn't be a world revamp, but it would be a version of Azeroth set in the past).

[Wangming]

There is an even easier solution, why not simply make a Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor, during the Black Empire days? The Ny'alotha raid already gives us a very small fraction of what the Black Empire could have looked like, and Dragonflight called back to that ancient era, and many documents from Dragonflight document the truth of that era and the lies of the Titans. Why not have Dragonflight end with the return of Murozond, leading to an Infinite Dragonflight/Old God/Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor?

And inb4 "BUT WOD WAS HATED!!!"; It was hated because all the time travel stuff was explained in a book that only 1000 people bought.

This is is a much better and simpler solution to conciliate an expansion about the Old God return and a possible "world revamp" (it wouldn't be a world revamp, but it would be a version of Azeroth set in the past).

Maaaybe, but a time travel expansion where we go back to events that already took place, isn't really a compelling story if you think about it. You can't affect change. I mean, if it is JUST that.

Not to bring THAT game up again, but Final Fantasy XIV did time travel well. Twice.
The backstory of Shadowbringers would require a novella-length explanation, but the TL;DR is that events on an alternate plane of existence spilled over and killed everyone, so the good guys traveled back in time and place to the spot where this can be undone..

And again in Endwalker we travel back into our distance past. We can't undo anything that happened, but it helps us learn the nature of the threat we were dealing with in the present. But that was one zone in the entire expansion.

Funnily enough the good time travel in WoW was in Cataclysm where you go back in time to get the Dragon Soul so that you can fight Deathwing in the present. Something like that would actually be cool. But we need a good reason to go there. And a reason why what we do does not cause change on Main Azeroth. IIF it does not.
A Time travel Black Empire expansion that leads to a revamp of the present would be wiiiiild.

[VinceVega]

There is an even easier solution, why not simply make a Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor, during the Black Empire days? The Ny'alotha raid already gives us a very small fraction of what the Black Empire could have looked like, and Dragonflight called back to that ancient era, and many documents from Dragonflight document the truth of that era and the lies of the Titans. Why not have Dragonflight end with the return of Murozond, leading to an Infinite Dragonflight/Old God/Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor?

And inb4 "BUT WOD WAS HATED!!!"; It was hated because all the time travel stuff was explained in a book that only 1000 people bought.

This is is a much better and simpler solution to conciliate an expansion about the Old God return and a possible "world revamp" (it wouldn't be a world revamp, but it would be a version of Azeroth set in the past).

No i honestly think WoDs story was hated because it did not make sense in the aftermath. The story if WoD, the draenor part, wasn't bad in itself.

NO timetravel story ever makes sense. Non in existence. Because you either create a paradox or anther dimension. Or what happens in the time travel has allready happend so you cannot change anything. Which in turn means: "Do whatever the fuck you want because that is what leads to your own life and nothing you do matters"
Time travel is something that should never be entertained in a important story in wow other thn the occasional "trip to the past to look at an event" and write it off as a pocket dimeonsion for education or whatever.

Take Black Morast.
Our trip could have certain outcomes.
1. We fail in protecting Medievh. This changes the future of Azeroth. Leading for the infinite dragons having no reason to go to medievh in the first place and us not being born most probably.
So we either have a paradox or an alternate universe which is our future again. Our past is in another universe.
Or we cannot fail at all because we know the future happens. Which in turn mean the whole infite dragonflight is a moot point and they should know that having no reason to even try to change the past.
Or you could ingore everything regarding logic and shit on suspension of disbeliev and just do whatever. Creating holes in the lore left and right.

WOD was explained with it being a pocket alternate dimension. But that would mean the infinite dragonflight has absolutly no effect on us. Whatever they change will happen to another dimension. Not us. So just let them do whatever they wan't to be happy.

It just never makes sense. It can't make sense. Because the whole concept doesn't make sense inthe first place.
Timetravel in wow should be forgotten and burried forever never to be touched again.

[Varodoc]

Maaaybe, but a time travel expansion where we go back to events that already took place, isn't really a compelling story if you think about it. You can't affect change. I mean, if it is JUST that.

Not to bring THAT game up again, but Final Fantasy XIV did time travel well. Twice.
The backstory of Shadowbringers would require a novella-length explanation, but the TL;DR is that events on an alternate plane of existence spilled over and killed everyone, so the good guys traveled back in time and place to the spot where this can be undone..

And again in Endwalker we travel back into our distance past. We can't undo anything that happened, but it helps us learn the nature of the threat we were dealing with in the present. But that was one zone in the entire expansion.

Funnily enough the good time travel in WoW was in Cataclysm where you go back in time to get the Dragon Soul so that you can fight Deathwing in the present. Something like that would actually be cool. But we need a good reason to go there. And a reason why what we do does not cause change on Main Azeroth. IIF it does not.
A Time travel Black Empire expansion that leads to a revamp of the present would be wiiiiild.

The Old Gods have always meddled with time, their corruption of Nozdormu and creation of Infinite Dragonflight is proof of that, and the Old Gods are able to see all time-flows. Another Time Travel expansion centred around the Old Gods is very likely, and since alternate timelines always have ramifications in the main history (see WoD and Legion), what happens in the alternate past will have ramifications on the main present.

Old Gods love meddling with time and this is an objective fact, the point here is that the Old Gods will probably try to return through some Time travel shenanigans, by using their puppet Murozond.

[huth]

And since we are talking about colour, it is funny how the Emerald Nightmare is red.

Actually, red is the complementary colour to green. That's likely why it was chosen.

[Varodoc]

No i honestly think WoDs story was hated because it did not make sense in the aftermath. The story if WoD, the draenor part, wasn't bad in itself.

NO timetravel story ever makes sense. Non in existence. Because you either create a paradox or anther dimension. Or what happens in the time travel has allready happend so you cannot change anything. Which in turn means: "Do whatever the fuck you want because that is what leads to your own life and nothing you do matters"
Time travel is something that should never be entertained in a important story in wow other thn the occasional "trip to the past to look at an event" and write it off as a pocket dimeonsion for education or whatever.

Take Black Morast.
Our trip could have certain outcomes.
1. We fail in protecting Medievh. This changes the future of Azeroth. Leading for the infinite dragons having no reason to go to medievh in the first place and us not being born most probably.
So we either have a paradox or an alternate universe which is our future again. Our past is in another universe.
Or we cannot fail at all because we know the future happens. Which in turn mean the whole infite dragonflight is a moot point and they should know that having no reason to even try to change the past.
Or you could ingore everything regarding logic and shit on suspension of disbeliev and just do whatever. Creating holes in the lore left and right.

WOD was explained with it being a pocket alternate dimension. But that would mean the infinite dragonflight has absolutly no effect on us. Whatever they change will happen to another dimension. Not us. So just let them do whatever they wan't to be happy.

It just never makes sense. It can't make sense. Because the whole concept doesn't make sense inthe first place.
Timetravel in wow should be forgotten and burried forever never to be touched again.

Time travel has already become too important to be ignored and you'll have to accept that.

The Old Gods created an entire Dragonflight whose sole purpose is disrupting the timelines and usher in the Hour of Twilight timeline. Plenty of dungeons and raids are centred around the Infinite Dragonflight and their attempts to disrupt timeline.

Dragonflight introduces a questline where the ancient Black Empire is revisited, and the Past incarnation of N'Zoth speaks to the player, revealing that he has seen their past, present, and future. Indeed, all Old Gods perceive all futures. The end of that questline reminds the player that Nozdormu is doomed to become Murozond, the future is already set in stone.

You cannot ignore the massive time travel aspect of Warcraft, it is too late to bury that and even Dragonflight has an entire questline centred around time travel (and it's the most iconic questline from Dragonflight).

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I wish time travel was used even more in this expansion and i hope it will be in patches beyond 10.1.

The lvling questline where you go fast through different timelines saving chromie & eternus was awesome and far more interesting than any of these primalist antagonists.

[VinceVega]

Time travel has already become too important to be ignored and you'll have to accept that.

The Old Gods created an entire Dragonflight whose sole purpose is disrupting the timelines and usher in the Hour of Twilight timeline. Plenty of dungeons and raids have centred around the Infinite Dragonflight and their attempts to disrupt timeline.

Dragonflight introduces a questline where the ancient Black Empire is revisited, and the Past incarnation of N'Zoth speaks to the player, revealing that he has seen their past, present, and future. Indeed, all Old Gods perceive all futures. The end of that questline reminds the player that Nozdormu is doomed to become Murozond, the future is already set in stone.

You cannot ignore the massive time travel aspect of Warcraft, it is too late to bury that and even Dragonflight has an entire questline centred around time travel (and it's the most iconic questline from Dragonflight).

Yes and we stopped them in the endtime.

Everything regarding the infinte dragonflight is from a realtiv timepoint befor the end of murozond. So we allready know they failed.

Keep it as a gimmick for meaningless dungeons on the side for all i care. But don't cetner big events around it again.

Also off topic in a way: I really really hope chromie does not replace Nozdormu... i cannot stand that voice...