Bard popularity in the eyes of the general audience

[Vaedan]

Incorrect. The class would get instrument weapons to start with, and have access to more instrument weapons as they level. This has been the case with every new class. That said, if players want to play on standard axes, maces, and swords, they would be able to. Just have an animation where the strings magically appear on the weapon.

Easy peasy.

Well, that would look weird.

Anyway, it is obvious that you need to deny anything that does not fit into your extremely limited view of the concept. We are really lucky that Blizzard does not work this way, because then all new classes would be really bland and monothematic.

[Dilbon]

Why bard as a class? A bard spec would work better in WoW.

[VinceVega]

Well, that would look weird.

Anyway, it is obvious that you need to deny anything that does not fit into your extremely limited view of the concept. We are really lucky that Blizzard does not work this way, because then all new classes would be really bland and monothematic.

Weirder than anything connect to a bard?
Also doesn't the paladin magically conjure a book out of thin air for some of this spells. Or mages with tables.
Music was never a big thing in the world itself. I don't mean soundtracks.
Just that music is never a theme really except in some niche stuff.
There are those bird mobs in MoP. Drums. And you could argue that blind dragon...

The whole concept is so outlandish that i don't think summoning strings on a two hand axe is much more out there honestly^^

[Teriz]

Well, that would look weird.

Anyway, it is obvious that you need to deny anything that does not fit into your extremely limited view of the concept. We are really lucky that Blizzard does not work this way, because then all new classes would be really bland and monothematic.

I’m merely utilizing the most prominent Bard concept that Blizzard has put forth. From Arthas at the end of TFT, to the Bard April Fools, to ETC in WoW and HotS, and now with the Hearthstone expansion, Blizzard’s design on this has been very consistent.

- - - Updated - - -

The whole concept is so outlandish that i don't think summoning strings on a two hand axe is much more out there honestly^^

Yup, there’s no way you can’t be outlandish with the Bard concept. Which is why I feel that the ETC concept actually works, because it’s so over the top and absurd that it actually has some appeal and charm and ironically fits WoW.

Blizzard has always sought to put their own stamp on a class. An ETC style bard fits their MO for general class design.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that next to no actual bard class proponents who actually want the class in the game uses ETC as their base (or even at all in their concepts) should tell you something about your claims here. But hey, the opinions of those who actually want the class don't matter. Only yours matter, right?

I actually think an ETC bard vs a DnD/traditional Bard thread would yield some interesting and surprising results.

[VinceVega]

I’m merely utilizing the most prominent Bard concept that Blizzard has put forth. From Arthas at the end of TFT, to the Bard April Fools, to ETC in WoW and HotS, and now with the Hearthstone expansion, Blizzard’s design on this has been very consistent.

- - - Updated - - -



Yup, there’s no way you can’t be outlandish with the Bard concept. Which is why I feel that the ETC concept actually works, because it’s so over the top and absurd that it actually has some appeal and charm and ironically fits WoW.

Blizzard has always sought to put their own stamp on a class. An ETC style bard fits their MO for general class design.

- - - Updated - - -



I actually think an ETC bard vs a DnD/traditional Bard thread would yield some interesting and surprising results.

It could fill the niche of a melee mage i think.

I would like them to go a bit away from the sillyness of ETC. But why not. Bard as class and specs could be Skald for a heavy melee, maybe tank version. The one who hits you over the head with a cello-axe. Loremaster or something as a ranged healer. And maybe a Battlesinger as a midrange dd like Evokers.
No support spec. I don't like it and the implications to the game overall.

[Teriz]

It could fill the niche of a melee mage i think.

I would like them to go a bit away from the sillyness of ETC. But why not. Bard as class and specs could be Skald for a heavy melee, maybe tank version. The one who hits you over the head with a cello-axe. Loremaster or something as a ranged healer. And maybe a Battlesinger as a midrange dd like Evokers.
No support spec. I don't like it and the implications to the game overall.

Yep, and Blizzard has already shown this in regards to the ETC;



And yeah, that's another strength of the ETC concept; It has a framework that isn't reliant on support or spellcasting. It offers itself as a melee/hybrid class that offers tanking, something unheard of for a Bard, and something that turns the idea of the class completely on its head. Further, you can totally see a scenario where a healer is doing this during a raid and doing AOE healing;



So yeah, I really think if Blizzard is ever considering doing a Bard class, they're going to go with the layup and a concept that is distinctly their own; The rock n' rolling Bard with an electric guitar.

[Ielenia]

I actually think an ETC bard vs a DnD/traditional Bard thread would yield some interesting and surprising results.

Feel free to make that thread.

Actually, we don't need that thread. Because this thread has shown how people don't care for ETC as "the only possible WoW bard".

- - - Updated - - -

I am not against the idea of having 2handed instruments which then bard use to smash in ETC style... I can imagine that being part of one spec. For others, I think they could go either with various 1hand and special class off-hand, like why not. Bards carry swords or other weapons with them anyway, but the main focus is on the instrument. We have ardenweald harps as offhands anyway, so yea... you can give it type: Instrument, which only bards could use. It would be same as Shields. They could appear on your back while not in combat, in the same way shields do.

I think the idea of using the musical instruments as actual blunt/slashing weapons, hitting people on the head with a guitar El Kabong style seems... crude for a concept such as the fantasy bard. The concept, which aligns itself more with the D&D version than ETC, is of a character who is well-versed with song magic but also can swing a sword like the best of them.

[Teriz]

Feel free to make that thread.

Actually, we don't need that thread. Because this thread has shown how people don't care for ETC as "the only possible WoW bard".

People don't care for Bards in general, so that's a meaningless statement. Additionally, if fleshed out properly, I could see an ETC-style Bard be a welcome addition to the class lineup.

I think the idea of using the musical instruments as actual blunt/slashing weapons, hitting people on the head with a guitar El Kabong style seems... crude for a concept such as the fantasy bard. The concept, which aligns itself more with the D&D version than ETC, is of a character who is well-versed with song magic but also can swing a sword like the best of them.

Well hey look, an ETC-style Bard who is well versed in song magic, and can still swing a sword with the best of them (because her guitar IS a sword).

[Ielenia]

People don't care for Bards in general,

And people don't care for Tinkers in general, but that never stopped you and other people who like tinkers, did it?

so that's a meaningless statement.

Except it's not a meaningless statement, because we're talking about what the bard proponents want, and this thread has shown that they don't want ETC as "the base of the class", no matter how much you wrongly insist that it is.

Additionally, if fleshed out properly, I could see an ETC-style Bard be a welcome addition to the class lineup.

Dude, your opinions about "what would make a good bard" are meaningless because you've more than once said that you don't like bards, and your idea of what a bard is in WoW is "creatively bankrupt", especially when you refuse to allow it to expand, which further shows how out of touch you are with Blizzard's actual design philosophy.

Well hey look, an ETC-style Bard who is well versed in song magic, and can still swing a sword with the best of them (because her guitar IS a sword).

It's actually a warglaive, but good luck not losing your hand brushing your palm back and forth against that blade.

But in all seriousness, that's Hearthstone. Hearthstone is not a good source for "what would work in WoW".

[Triceron]

So looks like rumors of the 3rd Evoker spec are really starting to ramp up towards a Boosting/Support spec.

I think this opens up a lot of options for Blizzard, and is one quite big step towards having Bards be viable.

Of course, they could always opt not to do a Bard and put all their Support-based ideas into Evoker and existing class revamps, but I think if they went out of their way to do this then it's only going to open doors rather than close them.

[Teriz]

So looks like rumors of the 3rd Evoker spec are really starting to ramp up towards a Boosting/Support spec.

I think this opens up a lot of options for Blizzard, and is one quite big step towards having Bards be viable.

Of course, they could always opt not to do a Bard and put all their Support-based ideas into Evoker and existing class revamps, but I think if they went out of their way to do this then it's only going to open doors rather than close them.

Bring in Evoker 3rd spec as a support spec towards the end of the expansion, and then give multiple classes 4th specs in order to build a new role?

I don't think we're looking at a new role to add to the trinity. I could see this being a DPS/Healer dual role spec where your talent choices determine your role. That sort of fooling around with talents to determine role also goes along with the "augmentation" theme.

[Triceron]

Bring in Evoker 3rd spec as a support spec towards the end of the expansion, and then give multiple classes 4th specs in order to build a new role?

I don't think we're looking at a new role to add to the trinity. I could see this being a DPS/Healer dual role spec where your talent choices determine your role. That sort of fooling around with talents to determine role also goes along with the "augmentation" theme.

Definitely possible to add 4th specs.

But it depends on how deep into 'Boost/Support' gameplay Augmentation will be. If it remains a DPS spec with Boosting elements, then it may be possible to retool existing specs into that type of gameplay, like Shadow Priest, Ret Pallies, Enh Shamans etc.

I always thought Arcane would actually make for a cool Support spec, since Arcane magic goes hand in hand with enchantments and debuffs.

[Vaedan]

Definitely possible to add 4th specs.

But it depends on how deep into 'Boost/Support' gameplay Augmentation will be. If it remains a DPS spec with Boosting elements, then it may be possible to retool existing specs into that type of gameplay, like Shadow Priest, Ret Pallies, Enh Shamans etc.

I always thought Arcane would actually make for a cool Support spec, since Arcane magic goes hand in hand with enchantments and debuffs.

I would say discipline would be good candidate for support spec instead of Shadow, since priests have 2 healing specs and one dps, making disc ideal for a support spec.

That would certainly open up more possibilities among all classes, but I dread if Blizz is capable of proper balancing. In past, when shamies and pallies were defacto support classes, it created quite a lot of issues in raid compositions.

[iamthedevil]

This is how a bard does it.

[Triceron]

I would say discipline would be good candidate for support spec instead of Shadow, since priests have 2 healing specs and one dps, making disc ideal for a support spec.

That would certainly open up more possibilities among all classes, but I dread if Blizz is capable of proper balancing. In past, when shamies and pallies were defacto support classes, it created quite a lot of issues in raid compositions.

Hmm, that does make sense.

I always took the information on Augmentation/Boosting to be DPS-based, never really thought of it being applied to a Healer role. I imagined it would be separate, considering one of the datamines mentioned Boosting/Healing, and I interpretted that as two different roles.

Boosting as a Healer component might actually make more sense now that I think about it.

[Vaedan]

Hmm, that does make sense.

I always took the information on Augmentation/Boosting to be DPS-based, never really thought of it being applied to a Healer role. I imagined it would be separate, considering one of the datamines mentioned Boosting/Healing, and I interpretted that as two different roles.

Boosting as a Healer component might actually make more sense now that I think about it.

There can be several types of boosting/augmentation. Offensive specs like enhancement could naturally offer damage buffs, while discipline could be more centered around defensive buffs. I mean, it has already several ways to mitigate and absorb damage. The spec has balance issues for years, so that might be chance to do something new with it.

[Triceron]

There can be several types of boosting/augmentation. Offensive specs like enhancement could naturally offer damage buffs, while discipline could be more centered around defensive buffs. I mean, it has already several ways to mitigate and absorb damage. The spec has balance issues for years, so that might be chance to do something new with it.

I was thinking that it could be more of an alternative for Healer DPS. Like right now, every healer is designed to have a damage component for filler or for procs. Some Healing specs are designed with combat up front. Boost could focus on bolstering allies damage instead of directly casting filler DPS abilities to proc or regen mana.

[Teriz]

And people don't care for Tinkers in general, but that never stopped you and other people who like tinkers, did it?

Hey, Tinkers pretty much won every future class poll on this forum. Typically by rather large margins, so some people definitely cared about it.

Except it's not a meaningless statement, because we're talking about what the bard proponents want, and this thread has shown that they don't want ETC as "the base of the class", no matter how much you wrongly insist that it is.

If Bard proponents want DnD style Bards, they're playing the wrong game. Blizzard has made it quite clear what type of Bard WoW is going to have, and it's the ETC.

Dude, your opinions about "what would make a good bard" are meaningless because you've more than once said that you don't like bards, and your idea of what a bard is in WoW is "creatively bankrupt", especially when you refuse to allow it to expand, which further shows how out of touch you are with Blizzard's actual design philosophy.

I don't like them. They're an awful and cheesy class concept. However, I think the ETC-style Bard is just crazy enough to be appealing and fun. So I'd prefer to see that in the game over some guy in tights playing a flute or a harp. At least the ETC exudes Blizzard's style and doesn't feel like its being lifted from other RPGs.

It's actually a warglaive, but good luck not losing your hand brushing your palm back and forth against that blade.

But in all seriousness, that's Hearthstone. Hearthstone is not a good source for "what would work in WoW".

Hearthstone is still Blizzard, and Blizzard WILL pull Hearthstone concepts into WoW if they want to. See the League of Explorers; a group of characters that originated in Hearthstone, and are now operating in WoW.

Also ETC was in WoW long before he showed up in HS.

[FossilFree]

So I'd prefer to see that in the game over some guy in tights playing a flute or a harp. At least the ETC exudes Blizzard's style and doesn't feel like its being lifted from other RPGs.

So what's not to like about an orc beating two large leather drums with the back of his axes? Isn't that unique to Blizzard too?

[Teriz]

So what's not to like about an orc beating two large leather drums with the back of his axes? Isn't that unique to Blizzard too?

There's not enough to build a class on. For example, what's the alliance equivalent? Is everyone going to be riding Kodos? Is everyone just going to be carrying out some drums? How do they attack? etc.etc.

The ETC-style Bard is a very complete class concept in comparison.