Are Evokers getting a new spec?

[Ielenia]

Yet some streamers are also dataminers.

Which doesn't invalidate what I said.

Also if several streamers are saying this is likely, don't you think a streamer bucking that trend would get MORE clicks?

Yeah, no. It wouldn't happen. Bandwagons are more powerful than contrarians.

You can't say one set of dataminers are invalid yet another is valid simply because you agree with one side.

Cool. I never did that, though.

Neltharion's voice line is information about an actual new spec,

No. No, they are not. They're just the description of Emberthal's weyrn's duties.

Which is why it's silly to believe what a dataminer says.

Aren't you believing the dataminers who say "it's happening"? Other than that, why should I believe "random forum poster" over the words of a dataminer? Especially since "random forum poster' is literally going off on less than what the dataminer have access to.

A developer going out of his way

He's not "going out of his way" in any way, shape or form. He's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing at that moment: generating hype.

Her no longer following Neltharion wouldn't change the nature of her abilities.

And yet her purpose would still follow Neltharion's exact directions if she continues to "augment allies and weaken foes".

[Eddiero]

Which is backed up by the edict of the Adamant Vigil, Emberthal's weryn;
He doesn't call Emberthal a name like he called Sakareth a devastator, or Viridia a preserver, but he does mention what her specialization does.

But why doesn't he give the "Spec" a name?
Why does he do it for the other two?
That doesn't make sense at all...
Like if he'd said: "Emberthal, my augmentor..."

It's right here;

URL: Our Destiny (can't post because no rights yet.)

Which is the PTR. Also it's part of the quest chain, so there's more than just that quest.

That is the exact text I posted.
Like there isn't even actual quest text yet.
Can you play the quest on PTR?

Do the other quests of the chain have actual quest texts?
No they don't.

As long as there is no factual proof of anything, anything datamined should be taken with suspicion.
Datamined stuff is never set in stone.

[Teriz]

But why doesn't he give the "Spec" a name?
Why does he do it for the other two?
That doesn't make sense at all...
Like if he'd said: "Emberthal, my augmentor..."

Simple, because Blizzard doesn't want you to know the name of the spec.

That is the exact text I posted.
Like there isn't even actual quest text yet.
Can you play the quest on PTR?

Do the other quests of the chain have actual quest texts?
No they don't.

As long as there is no factual proof of anything, anything datamined should be taken with suspicion.
Datamined stuff is never set in stone.

Let's go through what the quest chain currently says;

Our Destiny:

Description
//Blockout Evokers only. Upon login you are toasted with NEW SPECIALIZATION REMEMBERED toast. This quest appears in your mailbox sent by Emberthal asking you to go to the Forbidden Reach. The mystery that was uncovered in 10.0.7 (not required for this quest) is about to unfold and she needs your help to talk Ebyssian down from a course of action she sees as folly.
See if you've already completed this by typing:

The High Creche:

Description
//Blockout This is an RP interaction quest where we learn that Ebyssian has already started to release Adamanthia. Emberthal thinks this is a bad idea while Ebyssian wants to at least try and give this dragon a chance. Interact with the 4 doohickies while they talk, each one bringing down the energies holding the dragon in place.
See if you've already completed this by typing:

The Contigency:

Adamanthia subdued
Description
//Blockout As the energies release, Adamanthia is coming to and is driven mad by torture of ages. Help buy Ebyssian time to subdue her magically. Boss fight. Boost/heal Ebyssian and Emberthal (most efficient method) or throw damage on Adamanthia. High flavor fight, lots of banter.
See if you've already completed this by typing:

Adamanthia's lore is already in the game, so that's not getting removed. Also the quest line is pretty clear on what happens. So is your argument here that Blizzard is going to alter this quest line in some way or delete it entirely? I don't follow.

[Ielenia]

Simple, because Blizzard doesn't want you to know the name of the spec.

It's not "simple". It makes no sense for Blizzard to unload all this supposed information about the spec, but not give a hint to its name.

[Aucald]

TBF, in this circumstance we have datamined info being consistently backed up with more datamined info. Further, the initial datamined info was tied to things already happening in the game, such as Adamanthia, and Sarkareth seeking out Aberrus. Deleting all of that would be quite a strange thing for BLizzard to do.

That's the issue with corroborating evidence based on a shaky or unknown premise - the evidence is real enough, but if you remove the premise then it becomes something else entirely. What's happening with Adamanthia, Sarkareth, and Aberrus could go down as we've seen in the data-mined info but have nothing to do with a new Evoker specialization in the end.

Me personally? I'm all for a new specialization for Evokers and I hope it does happen - it would be interesting to see a new specialization get an organic introduction in lore like this, and could serve as a springboard for future class/spec evolutions in that vein. But it may not happen, too; and I think getting this amped up is probably a mistake. I would suggest a degree of caution about going overboard on the optimism.

[Xath]

It would help but not a lot.

It would actually be like the heavy influx of DK tanks at the start of Wrath, and smoothing out down to the same percentages of tanks that we had since vanilla. What ends up happening is main tank players tend to swap mains, and the class distribution might get smoothed out a bit, but the overall percentage of tank players remains quite low. If it were really a significant enough boost, then the past 3 new classes (sans Evoker) should have at least moved that needle towards more tanks on average. And truth is, it hasn't really, and we still see pretty low tank participation overall, even though every new class we got in an expansion (sans Evoker) had tanking options.

No it wouldn't you are talking about a role with highly limited spots in melee dps.

[Teriz]

Which doesn't invalidate what I said.

Yes it does, because you implied that ALL dataminers are saying this isn't happening.

Yeah, no. It wouldn't happen. Bandwagons are more powerful than contrarians.

You clearly don't know how youtube works.

Cool. I never did that, though.

So the opinion of dataminers are a wash then?

No. No, they are not. They're just the description of Emberthal's weyrn's duties.

If that's her duties, then her duties just happen to be analogous to what our specs can do, since Sarkareth and Viridia's duties are exactly the description of the Devastation and Preservation specs.

Aren't you believing the dataminers who say "it's happening"?

Well yes, because of the clues and facts we have at hand. Also I fully recognize that Blizzard is purposefully feeding us information about this almost like someone dropping a trail of breadcrumbs.

He's not "going out of his way" in any way, shape or form. He's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing at that moment: generating hype.

Have you ever seen a developer, much less Ion, mention that a class should be excited about getting a standard drop from a boss? Keep in mind, he didn't even do that for Hunters when they got Sylvanas' legendary bow that gave granted them Wailing Arrow in Shadowlands.

And yet her purpose would still follow Neltharion's exact directions if she continues to "augment allies and weaken foes".

Incorrect. She can't alter the abilities that she has, but she can choose to use her abilities for something other than what Neltharion used them for. Regardless, her powers are augmenting others through the power of the black dragonflight.

Also I noticed you didn't answer my question as to when you believe a 3rd spec could be coming in the future.

It's almost as if you don't believe a 3rd spec is coming at all. Color me surprised.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not "simple". It makes no sense for Blizzard to unload all this supposed information about the spec, but not give a hint to its name.

"Augment" is a hint to its name,

- - - Updated - - -

But it may not happen, too; and I think getting this amped up is probably a mistake. I would suggest a degree of caution about going overboard on the optimism.

In that, I completely agree.

[Eddiero]

Simple, because Blizzard doesn't want you to know the name of the spec.

Adamanthia's lore is already in the game, so that's not getting removed. Also the quest line is pretty clear on what happens. So is your argument here that Blizzard is going to alter this quest line in some way or delete it entirely? I don't follow.

IF there would be a new spec...
where we have to complete a questline for it to unlock.

Why is the line "Upon login you are toasted with NEW SPECIALIZATION REMEMBERED toast." supposedly in the first quest?
Like at that point we never got the essence restored, have we?
Why would we have a spec remembered by simply login in?

[Teriz]

IF there would be a new spec...
where we have to complete a questline for it to unlock.

Why is the line "Upon login you are toasted with NEW SPECIALIZATION REMEMBERED toast." supposedly in the first quest?

Because it's PTR, and that's how Blizzard wants you to see it for now.

Like at that point we never got the essence restored, have we?

Probably get the essence restored after the quest when we subdue Adamanthia, and restore her mind. Which btw could happen after 10.1.

Why would we have a spec remembered by simply login in?

I'm sure we'll find out when the quest drops in 10.1 (and I seriously doubt it).

[Ersula]

The template of a Teriz thread is: "Post a Question I already have an answer I have committed to & will never reconsider, then reply to everyone poking holes into it with an unwavering zeal"

[Teriz]

The template of a Teriz thread is: "Post a Question I already have an answer I have committed to & will never reconsider, then reply to everyone poking holes into it with an unwavering zeal"

You haven't been keeping up. We decided that the spec isn't coming in 10.1 like three pages into this thread.

So what "holes" are you talking about?

[Ielenia]

Yes it does, because you implied that ALL dataminers are saying this isn't happening.

I literally never said that. Literally. The literal definition of the word "literally". I never said "dataminers are saying this isn't happening". I said "dataminers aren't saying this is happening". There is a huge difference between the two sentences.

You clearly don't know how youtube works.

This coming from someone who clearly doesn't know how WoW classes and roles work, it's priceless.

So the opinion of dataminers are a wash then?

This is your own conclusion based on something I never said. Dishonesty abounds, here.

If that's her duties, then her duties just happen to be analogous to what our specs can do, since Sarkareth and Viridia's duties are exactly the description of the Devastation and Preservation specs.

That's not the point, though. If Emberthal's character arc has her moving away from what Neltharion wanted for her, her going right back to what Neltharion wanted for her would be counter-productive.

Well yes,

So it's silly to believe dataminers only when they use their own findings to go against your narrative?

Have you ever seen a developer, much less Ion, mention that a class should be excited about getting a standard drop from a boss?

Except I don't recall him saying "you should be excited"?

Incorrect.

Wrong. Read three quotes above.

Also I noticed you didn't answer my question as to when you believe a 3rd spec could be coming in the future.

I don't think you have any right to demand an answer when you also pointedly refuse to answer other people's questions.

It's almost as if you don't believe a 3rd spec is coming at all. Color me surprised.

We both know that no matter what I answer, you'd draw that exact same conclusion, considering our conversation so far.

[anon5123]

"Support" specs that do nothing but buff/debuff are not going to happen in WoW. They were in RIFT and nobody liked playing them, because they were just glorified cheerleaders whose contribution to the raid can't easily be conceptualized by our monkey brains so they're not fun to play.

[Makorus]

"Support" specs that do nothing but buff/debuff are not going to happen in WoW. They were in RIFT and nobody liked playing them, because they were just glorified cheerleaders whose contribution to the raid can't easily be conceptualized by our monkey brains so they're not fun to play.

I mean, Bards work in FFXIV, and while I understand that the playerbases are drastically different, I don't think it'll be a problem.

[Teriz]

I literally never said that. Literally. The literal definition of the word "literally". I never said "dataminers are saying this isn't happening". I said "dataminers aren't saying this is happening". There is a huge difference between the two sentences.

Which implies that ALL dataminers are saying it.

This is your own conclusion based on something I never said. Dishonesty abounds, here.

"Dataminers are saying this isn't happening." =/= "SOME dataminers are saying this isn't happening."

That's not the point, though. If Emberthal's character arc has her moving away from what Neltharion wanted for her, her going right back to what Neltharion wanted for her would be counter-productive.

So are all Evokers following Neltharion currently since we're still doing Sarkareth's and Viridia's "duties" as described in those voice lines?

So it's silly to believe dataminers only when they use their own findings to go against your narrative?

It's silly to believe dataminers know everything happening before Blizzard releases it on a PTR. Also you have yet to provide any findings that go against my narrative. I look forward to you bringing such findings forward.

Except I don't recall him saying "you should be excited"?

Semantics? He said the following;

Evokers will probably be interested in what Commander Sarkarth may have for them when we get there though.

Which means it's something to get excited for.

Wrong. Read three quotes above.

See above, unless you believe that all Evoker players are currently servants of Neltharion.

I don't think you have any right to demand an answer when you also pointedly refuse to answer other people's questions.

We both know that no matter what I answer, you'd draw that exact same conclusion, considering our conversation so far.

I don't think anyone actually cares one way or another. I just find it amusing that you simply can't admit that you don't think there's going to be a 3rd Evoker spec ever. I mean, it's rather obvious you feel that way based on how actively you dismiss the evidence in the most hilarious and over-the-top ways imaginable.

[Gigantique]

But would DPS players want to play a spec that isn’t a chart topper? If it can flex role, Blizzard can maximize both aspects of DPS and support and create a competitive damage dealer and a competitive healer.

They can circumvent that by having the boosted dmg done by party members show up on your own meters. IIRC Hpals already do this with Blessing of Summer procs?

[Lazerbrain]

Blizz usually frontloads their work proudly unto us many months before we even get to try it on ptr, why would they drop a hidden 3rd spec for anew class mid expansion without telling us at launch of DF or on the roadmap?

Sounds to good to be true.

If a new spec would be released I expect blizz to announce it with a bang and bow many months before we get to try it.


I would like a 3rd spec, but I feel that if they were going to add that it will be part of something much bigger than a mid expansion patch, most likely with a whole new expansion.

[Teriz]

They can circumvent that by having the boosted dmg done by party members show up on your own meters. IIRC Hpals already do this with Blessing of Summer procs?

Perhaps…..

I do wonder if we’re getting an actual support spec though, and not an existing role contorted towards support.

I could imagine a scenario where Blizzard introduces the Evoker bard-style spec at the very end of the expansion, where raiding is pretty much over. Maybe even announce it after the next expansion is announced like allied
races were. Then in 11.0 we get three or four other classes that also get support specs, and viola! We have a new role in WoW.

That would certainly be something.

[Hugnomo]

I'm prepared to eat my words if it doesn't happen. But, having seen all the evidence accumulate over the last few weeks, I think the only way they could spell it out more is actually releasing the spec. Like, I don't think there's that much standing between existing evidence and confirmation.
If you aren't convinced thus far, I don't think any piece of evidence except the actual official release is going to convince you.

[Gurbz]

I'm prepared to eat my words if it doesn't happen. But, having seen all the evidence accumulate over the last few weeks, I think the only way they could spell it out more is actually releasing the spec. Like, I don't think there's that much standing between existing evidence and confirmation.
If you aren't convinced thus far, I don't think any piece of evidence except the actual official release is going to convince you.

Seeing as the entire idea hinges on one part of datamined placeholder text for a quest chain that has not been implemented on the PTR and is not currently playable in any form, I think it is disingenuous to say that it is basically confirmed. Far from it, in my opinion, though I can acknowledge that it remains a possibility even if I currently believe it to be a remote one. If that one thing doesn't exist, the rest of the evidence is nothing but interesting lore tidbits. And we have tons of examples from the past of things that were datamined in a far more complete state than that quest chain that never were made available to players in any form.

That said, if that quest chain were to begin getting iterated on and develops into a more finalized form, that would likely be enough to convince me that it was happening. Until then, I maintain that it is just as likely to lead to nothing as it is a 3rd evoker spec.