Human Heritage Questline (Resolution of Onyxia and the Defias's legacy) [SPOILERS]

[Myradin]

With the revelation that Onyxia used Mind Control Lite (TM) on the Stormwind nobles back then, my hope that we will ever get Stormwind aligned characters that are not presented as goodbois at every turn again is entirely snuffed out.

This. The problem with this questline is it serve to make humans even more boring. It wasnt Onyxia playing up classicism and the greed of the nobility. No, she just mind controlled them with a magic pendant. This entirely removes any real dispute between the two groups and removes what little shades of grey the defias had.

Being about the various human kingdoms would have been much better.

[micwini]

Right but we didn't learn about anything else in Stormwind's history. Nothing about Lothar or how they relate to Arathor or the Vrykul, nothing about the conflict with Gnolls and Jungle Trolls, barely anything about the Orcs beyond the fact that they're why the city was rebuilt by the Stonemasons, nothing about their Conjurors or the old northshire clerics from WC1, nothing about... Admiral Taylor or any of the few other lore characters they have.

This was too narrow.

I mean there is only so much you can put in before it gets convoluted. It would be nice to have more on all points you listed, which is also why a world revamp is needed. To have a bit more 'old' lore back into the game again.

[Super Dickmann]

I've already said my piece on the megathread. Suffice to say that spacing of the few left-over sources of conflict in his kingdom, the House of Nobles, while making the return of one of the others,the Defias, in circumstances perfect for a long-term threat given the successive costly wars, an excuse to remove it is a bad call. Doing so through a throwaway line about how Anduin did it off-screen retroactively and turning Vanessa into a soup kitchen owner makes it worse. Where the orc heritage and even the 9.2.5 Forsaken questline leaves its race better than where it found it, the questline manages the difficult feat of making Stormwind and Anduin even more boring.

[Nymrohd]

I've already said my piece on the megathread. Suffice to say that spacing of the few left-over sources of conflict in his kingdom, the House of Nobles, while making the return of one of the others,the Defias, in circumstances perfect for a long-term threat given the successive costly wars, an excuse to remove it is a bad call. Doing so through a throwaway line about how Anduin did it off-screen retroactively and turning Vanessa into a soup kitchen owner makes it worse. Where the orc heritage and even the 9.2.5 Forsaken questline leaves its race better than where it found it, the questline manages the difficult feat of making Stormwind and Anduin even more boring.

I have to ask but how does it make Anduin boring? What Anduin did was the smart and reasonable thing to do. Provide amnesty, promise some minor reparations and pull the teeth and more importantly the moral support from the public out of an organization that is a danger to his reign.

If we ever got a revamp my hope would be to focus on growth and defeating local external threats instead of intrigue and internal conflict. Have the Stormwind plot be about rebuilding the kingdom and maybe resurgent local threats like the Gnolls (who now have the lore to become something far different than the nuisances they were back in classic). Same for the orcs, they are better off establishing the clans in different towns that would serve as clan homes across Kalimdor and fighting threats like quillboars.

I still take issue with it because it was NOT about Human Heritage, it was about Shaw and Vanessa.

[angrywithmygod]

As other have pointed out Anduin is a boring character with absolutely nothing interesting going. Im amazed that even when they wrote him out of the story they still some how manage to still somehow ruin more of the Alliance character. It truly is a feat.

They also don't explain how he managed to do this in the middle of two massive wars, one against the Legion and the other against the Horde. I mean how? wasn't he out sending farmers to die against the Horde. How did he also end up feeding them?

Honestly It feels like a wank over a character that they desperately want us to love but who only shows how shallow the writing actually is.

[Graeham]

It was a decent conclusion to some of the older storylines and hopefully a way to finally move forward and let both Onyxia and the Defias Brotherhood rest rather than have either brought back yet again. That being said, it mostly revolves around Stormwind and I know a lot of people who are into roleplay don't necessarily play humans who hail from that particular region...

I do appreciate that they avoided making either the Defias Brotherhood or the nobility completely irredeemable. That being said, Vanessa is yet another female character that never seems to be held to the same standards of male characters who were killed off much more unceremoniously for far lesser crimes. She can strive to make up for her missteps but she still cut down a kindly elderly couple in cold blood - and there wasn't really anything stopping her from just having them be captured and held prisoner until her goals were attained if she truly cared for them.

[Leodric]

I enjoyed the quest line. Especially the fighting in Moonbrook was nice because of nostalgia reasons (questing there with my first character in 2005).

[Super Dickmann]

I have to ask but how does it make Anduin boring? What Anduin did was the smart and reasonable thing to do. Provide amnesty, promise some minor reparations and pull the teeth and more importantly the moral support from the public out of an organization that is a danger to his reign.

If we ever got a revamp my hope would be to focus on growth and defeating local external threats instead of intrigue and internal conflict. Have the Stormwind plot be about rebuilding the kingdom and maybe resurgent local threats like the Gnolls (who now have the lore to become something far different than the nuisances they were back in classic). Same for the orcs, they are better off establishing the clans in different towns that would serve as clan homes across Kalimdor and fighting threats like quillboars.

I still take issue with it because it was NOT about Human Heritage, it was about Shaw and Vanessa.

Anduin is set up as a young, inexperienced king who's well-intentioned but who at the time of Legion was liable to listen to his advisors. From then he reigned solely in two giant world spanning wars, one of which he spent most of the time doubting himself in and had Westfall bombed and his intelligence agency co-opted by a demon and in the other he was resorting to mass conscription in order to sustain the war effort while his capital city had to clothe and feed scores of refugees. Both the circumstances and the character are entirely ripe for conflict on the axes of both internal disruption by the entrenched elite who'd think little of being run by a child, especially a child who by virtue of said world wars would be looking externally and the actual citizens of the kingdom who were pushed into that war, one existential and wrecking most of the Stormwind surrounding area, the other not only existential, but particularly bloody and futile, with the king eulogizing the man who started it all in the capital city and running off with a white peace, notwithstanding the 8.2.5 implication that he was also losing. Match the poor material conditions with the absurdly limited timeframe for him to do any of this before he's abducted and turned into a bondage slave by Turbo Satan and you have a series of events that makes little sense even if it weren't also a sinkhole for any potentially interesting character conflict.

Which it is, by the by, it like every other Anduin situation outside Shadows Rising and SL serve not to deepen or challenge the character but to continually validate the cancerous stance on the franchise he represents and choke out any other stance, narrative logic be damned. It's meaningless whether it's smart or reasonable, disregarding how wildly implausible it is, when it's not being used to tell any story, but on the contrary, to limit future stories by axing yet another of the dwindling number of viable parties with grievances against Anduin who are dismissed with a wave of the hand and either reformed (into caricatures) or killed (as caricatures).

[Skytotem]

What would folks want to see next for humans and Stormwind after this quest?

What should happen to the Noble House of Clessington? What should their narrative/thematic role be?

[Eeram]

This was all set up for Nightsquall an a Great Sea/Pirate Expansion.
Hes getting all the pirates together including the Defias to travel with a great fleet back over the great sea

[OwenBurton]

That would be nice. This whole "Stormwind-centric" mindset for humanity has bothered me for years...

And yet, what alternative is there? Gilneas already had their heritage questline a while ago, and Lordaeron now belongs fully to the Horde, and the Forsaken will have their own questline there soon enough presumably.

The only real option would have possibly been Stromgarde.

[GabrielKnight]

What would folks want to see next for humans and Stormwind after this quest?

I think the best thing that can happen to spice things up is the rise of a Garithos-like character, filled with hatred against the Horde. Not necessarily a bad guy, but more like a war-torn man that saw the orcs commit terrible crimes, and now can't stand them trying to be peaceful. Well intentioned, but who loses his path rather quickly. But please, let's not make it Turalyon.

At the same time, the resurrection of the Scarlet Crusade, who are defending the EK from the remaining Scourge that apparently are now forgotten, even when in Oribos is clearly stated that they're going rampant. And we all know how easily those guys start to impale random citizens in their quest.

All this happening both outside and inside the walls of Stormwind. We need to give more life to all those NPC that have been walking around for 19 years doing nothing.

[Nymrohd]

And yet, what alternative is there? Gilneas already had their heritage questline a while ago, and Lordaeron now belongs fully to the Horde, and the Forsaken will have their own questline there soon enough presumably.

The only real option would have possibly been Stromgarde.

The Alliance has reclaimed Southshore per BfA and the Exploring EK. Maybe Andorhal is under Forsaken control but most of the Eastweald is under the control of a neutral faction that is in its majority living humans of Lordaeron. All the Horde controls is Tirisfal, northern Silverpine and maybe Alterac Pass.

[bloodmoth13]

It was nice, but honestly I wish it was more like the orc one, checking on the other human kingdoms and what they're going to do going forward.

They arent all alliance and some are separate races.
Lordaeron is basically the forsaken
Gilneas are all worgen so not player human
kul tiran have their own kingdom and traditions
stromgarde i guess are now part of the alliance
kirin tor are neutral
alterac sided with horde and were effectively wiped out

I guess there could have been some interesting story regarding alteracs remnants, lordaeron refugees and the reestablished kingdom of stromgarde along with perhaps some kirin tor appearance but honestly i dont think the value would really have been there. This was really more of a stormwind heritage quest and by the looks of things it did the job, the scope of where the other kingdoms are at would be far too broad tbh.

In contrast to the orcs, the orcish clans are pretty much all leftovers of the old horde, garroshes horde and were pretty much all destroyed at some point or another. The orc 'race' in wow actually is a conglomerate of all the orc clans, frostwolf and warsong probably make up the majority but i believe thralls horde always intended to rehabilitate any who were willing to turn back from the days of warII.
Burning blade, bleeding hollow and blackrock were pretty much purely antagonistic. Shattered hand were pretty much just rogues at this stage, dragonmaw clan sided with garrosh, not even sure if laughing skull exist still. The orcs needed to revisit the clans since they all lost much of their identities and personalities. The human kingdoms overall fared far better since we are living on their planet. Stormwind isnt as important to humans on azeroth as durotar is for the orcs, there are other human kingdoms on azeroth, there is pretty much only blackrock mountain and durotar, and the orcs were defeated in the black rock mountain.

basically they wouldnt work the same in the story. The orcish horde is orcs from all clans, humans are stormwind humans and some refugees. They are narratively very different

[Mace]

- Vanessa also seems different from Edwin, she admits that Edwin's righteousness turned to banditry, and said that old grudges died after Varian's death in the Legion, and fighting a global war against demons also put much in greater perspective. She makes interesting points, she says that the Amulet only stirred what the nobles really felt about the common folk from deep inside them, and that without those feelings existing already, the feud with the Defias would never have broke out in the first place. She seems to truly care for Westfall's people, although she seems to have not returned there for a while, telling former Defias members to return home and help their people in different ways.

I use to think things like this were good things to have or at least ont so bad because it showed that people really had something in them.. htat thinking is ill-conceived, anything that brings out any thing dark in you is not a good thing, becuase it empahsises the negative, rather htan the good, and that never solves anything it just makes you more cranky, angry, disasstisfied etc.


Anyway, it sounded a sweet storlyine -- but alas, heritage questionlines ARE NOT ENOUGH is this what race storylines have come to?

[Sorrowseer]

It was a decent conclusion to some of the older storylines and hopefully a way to finally move forward and let both Onyxia and the Defias Brotherhood rest rather than have either brought back yet again. That being said, it mostly revolves around Stormwind and I know a lot of people who are into roleplay don't necessarily play humans who hail from that particular region...

I do appreciate that they avoided making either the Defias Brotherhood or the nobility completely irredeemable. That being said, Vanessa is yet another female character that never seems to be held to the same standards of male characters who were killed off much more unceremoniously for far lesser crimes. She can strive to make up for her missteps but she still cut down a kindly elderly couple in cold blood - and there wasn't really anything stopping her from just having them be captured and held prisoner until her goals were attained if she truly cared for them.

I mean saurfang elder says to you he killed kids in stormwind in a raid and you don't even bat an eye at it (you the character not you the person), stuff like that has long made me give up letting anything in wow have accountability, there is a long list of such characters, most happen to be horde but not all are, its just, sigh.

[OwenBurton]

I use to think things like this were good things to have or at least ont so bad because it showed that people really had something in them.. htat thinking is ill-conceived, anything that brings out any thing dark in you is not a good thing, becuase it empahsises the negative, rather htan the good, and that never solves anything it just makes you more cranky, angry, disasstisfied etc.

Anyway, it sounded a sweet storlyine -- but alas, heritage questionlines ARE NOT ENOUGH is this what race storylines have come to?

I think Dragonflight is a great improvement on many fronts, yet I will admit, the whole engaging in the global faction war, then suddenly abandoning it after a single expansion is very rushed and hasty.

Most of the Alliance leaders including Turalyon himself attended Lor'themar and Thalyssra's wedding in Suramar, the night elves being the only exception. The point being that the Alliance and Horde seems to be almost "best buddies" (once again), and getting along excellently, which is all the more surprising given Anduin's absence. I mean, what about Talanji's grudge against the Proudmoores, or the Forsaken who still follow Sylvanas and loathe the living, and what of all those people on both sides who lost their family members in the Fourth War? Is that all swept under the rug now?

I am not against reconciliation, I just think it has to be more realistic and nuanced.

The Alliance has reclaimed Southshore per BfA and the Exploring EK. Maybe Andorhal is under Forsaken control but most of the Eastweald is under the control of a neutral faction that is in its majority living humans of Lordaeron. All the Horde controls is Tirisfal, northern Silverpine and maybe Alterac Pass.

Southshore is only a port town though, Hillsbrad is likely still contested between the factions, likely restarting the old feud between Southshore and Tarren Mill.

[Nymrohd]

Southshore is only a port town though, Hillsbrad is likely still contested between the factions, likely restarting the old feud between Southshore and Tarren Mill.

Certainly, Hillsbrad and Silverpint are likely contested as zones. I was just saying, the Forsaken most definitely do not control all the lands of Lordaeron.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Better late than never, it's one of these storylines and issues that should have been concluded a long time ago.