Final Fantasy XVI

[Biomega]

FF always changed stuff.

FF 1-3 pure turn based.
FF 4-9 ATB
FFX conditional turn based
FFXI MMO
FFXII programable mmo-lite combat with ATB
FFXIII extremely fast paced ATB
FFXIV MMO
FFXV welfare KH combat
FFXVI looks more like bayonetta/DMC action character combat just based off previews

The argument is even more bad faith if you're only applying it to FF lmao.

The only one arguing in bad faith here is you, because you insistently skirt around the actual point

But that's cool. If you don't like this argument, there's plenty of other threads you can go to where people aren't making it. So it's not a problem.

[Tech614]

The only one arguing in bad faith here is you, because you insistently skirt around the actual point

But that's cool. If you don't like this argument, there's plenty of other threads you can go to where people aren't making it. So it's not a problem.

Bringing up a constantly evolving and changing take on combat systems as a negative for a franchise that has always had a constantly evolving and changing take on combat systems is indeed a bad faith argument.

FF is not DQ which has had the same combat system outside of a few oddities for the entire life of the franchise.

This is literally a "I want to shit on this game but have no valid reasons to" quality take. If you don't like the game move on, don't sit here and act like FF has some long tradition of the same combat system that this game shit on. It never has.

[Biomega]

Bringing up a constantly evolving and changing take on combat systems as a negative for a franchise that has always had a constantly evolving and changing take on combat systems is indeed a bad faith argument.

Which is why I'm glad I didn't make that argument. Whew.

Not sure why you're misrepresenting things, though. Maybe it's bad faith, maybe it's just reading comprehension, couldn't say.

If you don't like the game move on, don't sit here and act like FF has some long tradition of the same combat system that this game shit on. It never has.

Wow, another thing I never said.

Is this a pattern, or are you just, like, REALLY into making some kind of point you think needs to be heard, regardless of how accurately it represents the positions of the people you're talking to? I hear you. Your opinion is recognized. You exist, and I have acknowledged it. Hopefully that sates your weird desire for attention now, bub.

And if not... my earlier offer still stands: there's plenty of places you can go to and scream, if you don't find your screams sufficiently echoed here.

[Selah]

I'm not a big FF person on the whole, but I will admit that the dev team around the game actually has me interested in XVI. It looks like it might actually be a game to get hyped about. Of course, that depends on SE and if they do something shitty last minute.

[Wrecktangle]

Guess it's the age of action combat now, and there's no going back. Not a fan, but I guess that's the changing times for ya. Can't stay stuck in the past forever - I mean I can, but I can't expect everyone else to xD

FF will probably always be action going forward. Just like when the series went to polygons instead of pixels, or 3d instead of 2nd. This is simply the next obvious evolution. In theory action is superior to turn based thematically in every way I can think of. In practice though, there leaves a lot to be desired for sure.

That being said it's not blown me away so far, everything I've seen is a little... generic. It doesn't really have that one thing that grabs me, some weird centerpiece or story element that makes it uniquely interesting, like FF7's Dieselpunk aesthetic or FF10's unique world-building. It's just solid yet unoriginal fantasy stuff, even the thing with the summons aeons eidolons eikons isn't anything new.

While it hasn't blown me away yet either (I personally didn't enjoy DMC5 combat because it felt inconsequential and FF historically struggles with this as well so I'm nervous they're going to miss the mark here), I struggle a bit with your comment regarding being uniquely interesting, especially when you cite FFX world building as an example that you could only have known via playing the game, not from trailers, and frankly FFX was one of if not my least favorite FF, no idea why people love that one, other than being the best iteration of FF's turn based combat system (which was inferior IMO to lots of other turn based combat engines).

[Zenfoldor]

I'm not nervous, this one is good. Everyone will know soon enough.

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The only one arguing in bad faith here is you, because you insistently skirt around the actual point

But that's cool. If you don't like this argument, there's plenty of other threads you can go to where people aren't making it. So it's not a problem.

Final Fantasy combat has been rather diverse entry to entry. That has somewhat led to a wide degree of preference between each entry from the fans. FFXII for example, is my favorite battle system in the series.

Square Enix also managed Dragon Quest, which doesn't have as much change of battle systems between entries, which imo, is what allows them to always seek new ground with Final Fantasy.

I can't really ding Square Enix for doing this, since most of their AA tier games are pretty traditional, awesome rpgs lately and so is Dragon Quest.

As far as this game, I didn't like the last DMC either, but that is mainly because I played the much better version, Dragon's Dogma, which is one of my favorite games of all time, so I'm rather hyped.

You make like the FFVIIR battle system or P5R or P4G or DQXI if you are looking for more traditional turn based or just less action.

If anything, my biggest worry is the "summons" section of boss battles will be long and un-losable.

[Tech614]

I'm not nervous, this one is good. Everyone will know soon enough.

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Final Fantasy combat has been rather diverse entry to entry. That has somewhat led to a wide degree of preference between each entry from the fans. FFXII for example, is my favorite battle system in the series.

Square Enix also managed Dragon Quest, which doesn't have as much change of battle systems between entries, which imo, is what allows them to always seek new ground with Final Fantasy.

I can't really ding Square Enix for doing this, since most of their AA tier games are pretty traditional, awesome rpgs lately and so is Dragon Quest.

As far as this game, I didn't like the last DMC either, but that is mainly because I played the much better version, Dragon's Dogma, which is one of my favorite games of all time, so I'm rather hyped.

You make like the FFVIIR battle system or P5R or P4G or DQXI if you are looking for more traditional turn based or just less action.

If anything, my biggest worry is the "summons" section of boss battles will be long and un-losable.

Honestly people that are so hard up about turn based combat should play SMT3,4 and 5 and some of the other megaten spinoffs but they won't because they don't actually care they just want something to complain about. The press turn system in those games runs laps around any of the older menu based FF games and is pretty much the peak of what you can do with a pure menu based combat system.

These people don't seem to actually play RPGs though, they just come here to complain FFXVI is action, when we already knew that 3 years ago when the first trailer dropped.

[jackofwind]

In theory action is superior to turn based thematically in every way I can think of.

How so exactly?

Most seriously chunky strategy games are turn-based.

[Zenfoldor]

Honestly people that are so hard up about turn based combat should play SMT3,4 and 5 and some of the other megaten spinoffs but they won't because they don't actually care they just want something to complain about. The press turn system in those games runs laps around any of the older menu based FF games and is pretty much the peak of what you can do with a pure menu based combat system.

These people don't seem to actually play RPGs though, they just come here to complain FFXVI is action, when we already knew that 3 years ago when the first trailer dropped.

SMTV is absolutely fantastic, I totally agree about the series.

IMO, one "hidden gem" game that has fantastic turn based gameplay, is Dicey Dungeons.

[Wrecktangle]

How so exactly? Most seriously chunky strategy games are turn-based.

What's an example of a "chunky strategy game" with turn based combat so I can better understand your point. Without understanding it, I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing right now lol.

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Honestly people that are so hard up about turn based combat should play SMT3,4 and 5 and some of the other megaten spinoffs but they won't because they don't actually care they just want something to complain about. The press turn system in those games runs laps around any of the older menu based FF games and is pretty much the peak of what you can do with a pure menu based combat system.

These people don't seem to actually play RPGs though, they just come here to complain FFXVI is action, when we already knew that 3 years ago when the first trailer dropped.

SMTV is absolutely fantastic, I totally agree about the series.

IMO, one "hidden gem" game that has fantastic turn based gameplay, is Dicey Dungeons.

I haven't played SMT since like DDS, but how does it differ from say P5's combat system (easily one of the best modern interpretations of turn based combat IMO). I'm also a huge fan of Airship Syndicates turn based combat (Battlechasers, Ruined King, etc.). My favorite though, Mana Khemia from PS2. I wish they'd bring that back. The later atelier games just never hit the same IMO.

[Tech614]

I haven't played SMT since like DDS, but how does it differ from say P5's combat system (easily one of the best modern interpretations of turn based combat IMO). I'm also a huge fan of Airship Syndicates turn based combat (Battlechasers, Ruined King, etc.). My favorite though, Mana Khemia from PS2. I wish they'd bring that back. The later atelier games just never hit the same IMO.

SMT since 3 is press turn, persona since 3 is a simplified version of this with the one more system. You will have 1 turn for every party member, if you pass your turn or hit a weakness or crit you will earn a bonus turn so in with good gameplay and a 3 demon+MC party you can get 8 turns per round. Contrary to that if you hit a mobs immunity you will not only lose the turn you just used but an additional turns on top of it. This also applies to enemies/bosses who will have a set amount of turns per round but can get additional ones for hitting your weaknesses or critting or can just flat out lose all their turns right off the bat if you immune their abilities. So it's quite similar to the persona one more system but has additional strategy on top of it where as persona is more simplified and straight forward bonus turns for knock downs.

SMT basically the goal is to only use "real turns" to hit weaknesses, use bonus turns for other things and try to have good variety in party defense to immune a wide variety of attacks to limit their turns. To compare it to persona there is great risk but also great reward in SMT, in persona its more like you get a bit of reward but not so much risk.

[Kumorii]

Liking what I see, excited for it.

Only thing I don't really like is the UI. The menus that is. Combat UI is fine.
Dunno what it is, but something feels off, kinda bland?

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm hyped as fuck for it.

Yoshi-P and his team is great and what they did with the items to help people is a great idea, other company's "cough" From Software "cough" should take note.

I was very on the fence about watching the state of play cause of spoilers, But I feel what they have shown has only scratched the surface.

[craigw]

there are good rpgs on steam with turn based or ATB combat. crystal project is one. if you are a person like myself who cant stand FF current combat system then abandon the game and find new ones. dragonquest has the same combat for decades. cyrstal project is GOOD. and its under 10 bucks. the game will bring back the nostalgia if thats what you are looking for. FF should have just rebranded the name. it is a competely different game from 20 years ago and those 20 year old games are compelely different than the originals. move on people quit bitching, FF will never be what you want it to be if you are holding onto the past. the game like you should have moved on. FF15 coming out a year after release on PC will ensure i will never play it if i had the desire to.

[Jtbrig7390]

FF should have just rebranded the name.

Highly disagree, people need to just get over the combat.

Like you said don't like it play something else.

[ONCHEhap]

FF always changed stuff.

FF 1-3 pure turn based.
FF 4-9 ATB
FFX conditional turn based
FFXI MMO
FFXII programable mmo-lite combat with ATB
FFXIII extremely fast paced ATB
FFXIV MMO
FFXV welfare KH combat
FFXVI looks more like bayonetta/DMC action character combat just based off previews

The argument is even more bad faith if you're only applying it to FF lmao. The SNES and PS1 combined trilogies where the only time in the history of the franchise they kept the same combat system around for an extended period of time, and that was over a period of time that lasted less than a decade.

Yeah, Final Fantasy has always been about trying new stuff and being innovative (especially early on), while its sister series Dragon Quest was the one that tried to instead perfect the classic turn based JRPG formula. People act shocked every time a new FF game is made and it doesn't play like FF1 even though the series has never been about doing the same thing over and over

[xmirrors]

The old school Final Fantasy crowd needs a reality check. We're in 2023, things have changed. Turn-based RPGs aren't mainstream and Final Fantasy is never returning to it. Gamers don't want it anymore.

[Xilurm]

I'm hyped as fuck for it.

Yoshi-P and his team is great and what they did with the items to help people is a great idea, other company's "cough" From Software "cough" should take note.

I was very on the fence about watching the state of play cause of spoilers, But I feel what they have shown has only scratched the surface.

That's because SQEX wants as many people as possible to play this game. From Software makes their games for specific audiences, not everyone is going to like them. Making the games easier just defeats the purpose of why they even work on them.

FF should have just rebranded the name. it is a competely different game from 20 years ago and those 20 year old games are compelely different than the originals. move on people quit bitching, FF will never be what you want it to be if you are holding onto the past. the game like you should have moved on. FF15 coming out a year after release on PC will ensure i will never play it if i had the desire to.

What makes an FF game isn't just the combat though. It's the style, the themes, the stuff they bring back constantly from game to game.

[Faldric]

I am a little sceptical how well this will play. I hope it's not too much interactive movie with constant "cinematic strike" button prompts. It looks like a fun movie though.

[craigw]

The old school Final Fantasy crowd needs a reality check. We're in 2023, things have changed. Turn-based RPGs aren't mainstream and Final Fantasy is never returning to it. Gamers don't want it anymore.

squreenix makes rpg games that have turn based and action combat and the games sell really well. gamers do want it, in fact gamers want both. i see no reason why people cant get a FF turn based and FF action based. dragonqeust series has made over 1.2 billion dollars in its lifetime. on just the game. no one buys dragonquest merchandise.......if anything squareenix is at a loss by alienating a costumer base. the new school FF crowd needs a reality check......you can have both types of games, they both sell still to this day really well....gamers want both. in no reality will gamers bitch about having more options of games to choose from. octopath traveler 2, the divinity series (number 2 is by far better than anything FF has put out recently), crystal project, dragonquest all turn based.... people play them. also prob should throw in persona 5 one of the best rpgs ever made..... but hey no one plays turn based games anymore....... hell south park the stick of truth(yep turn based) is better than anything past FFX.