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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    but hey no one plays turn based games anymore
    I am not sure you understand what mainstream means and how big the Final Fantasy series is.

    Persona 5 sales are a drip in the ocean compared to what Final Fantasy has produced in the past.
    The Persona 5 series of games - Persona 5, Persona 5 Royal, Persona 5 Scramble The Phantom Strikers, and Persona 5 Dancing Star Night - have sold a combined 8.3 million units worldwide as of the end of November. Source
    All four Persona 5 games combined are beat by FF15 alone with over 10m. In comparison, Persona 5 for the PS4 by itself only managed 1.64m in sales.

    There is a market for turn based RPGs. I'm part of that market. However, that is no longer the market that Square-Enix is aiming for with Final Fantasy because it is no longer mainstream. For Final Fantasy games to sell at what they are expected to the franchise had to adapt. So Square-Enix can and should continue to publish games like Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default but Final Fantasy had to and has to continue to move on. They've been struggling to find an identity but I think they're getting close with FFVIIR and FFXVI. We'll see. The only thing for certain is that going backwards, back to turn-based, is not the answer.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    I am not sure you understand what mainstream means and how big the Final Fantasy series is.

    Persona 5 sales are a drip in the ocean compared to what Final Fantasy has produced in the past.


    All four Persona 5 games combined are beat by FF15 alone with over 10m. In comparison, Persona 5 for the PS4 by itself only managed 1.64m in sales.

    There is a market for turn based RPGs. I'm part of that market. However, that is no longer the market that Square-Enix is aiming for with Final Fantasy because it is no longer mainstream. For Final Fantasy games to sell at what they are expected to the franchise had to adapt. So Square-Enix can and should continue to publish games like Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default but Final Fantasy had to and has to continue to move on. They've been struggling to find an identity but I think they're getting close with FFVIIR and FFXVI. We'll see. The only thing for certain is that going backwards, back to turn-based, is not the answer.
    Persona 5/Royal was locked to a single platform until very recently. I'd be curious what sales Persona 6 can do if it launched multiplatform from the start.

    FFXVI is definitely going to sell less than XV for example because of the exclusive deal.

    Also Persona 5 Strikers is as action RPG, just thought that was funny to mention considering the discussion here.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Faldric View Post
    I am a little sceptical how well this will play. I hope it's not too much interactive movie with constant "cinematic strike" button prompts. It looks like a fun movie though.
    Have you seen any of the gameplay? It looks nothing like what you're describing.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    I am not sure you understand what mainstream means and how big the Final Fantasy series is.

    Persona 5 sales are a drip in the ocean compared to what Final Fantasy has produced in the past.


    All four Persona 5 games combined are beat by FF15 alone with over 10m. In comparison, Persona 5 for the PS4 by itself only managed 1.64m in sales.

    There is a market for turn based RPGs. I'm part of that market. However, that is no longer the market that Square-Enix is aiming for with Final Fantasy because it is no longer mainstream. For Final Fantasy games to sell at what they are expected to the franchise had to adapt. So Square-Enix can and should continue to publish games like Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default but Final Fantasy had to and has to continue to move on. They've been struggling to find an identity but I think they're getting close with FFVIIR and FFXVI. We'll see. The only thing for certain is that going backwards, back to turn-based, is not the answer.
    Honestly, this is the direction that FF has been going for a long time now. And for good reason. The mainstream gamer market is based around action oriented games. COD, Fortnite, God of War, Elden Ring, Xenoblade, Zelda and many other games prove that. While there will always be a place for turned based games, they will never have the amount of players interested into it as action oriented games. The only mainstream RPG that I can think of that still had or has a turned based combat system is Pokemon.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Yoshi-P and his team is great
    Yoshida is not the director. Hiroshi Takai is. But apparently people don't know that since Yoshida stole Takai's thunder by being the one who starred in the announcement video, doing all of the interviews, and being the one who hosted the panel, not Takai.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Yoshida is not the director. Hiroshi Takai is. But apparently people don't know that since Yoshida stole Takai's thunder by being the one who starred in the announcement video, doing all of the interviews, and being the one who hosted the panel, not Takai.
    It's almost like he is an executive at the company and the head of Creative Business Unit III who is making the game. Can't believe he would just barge in and demand he talk about a game he has nothing to do with!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Honestly, this is the direction that FF has been going for a long time now. And for good reason. The mainstream gamer market is based around action oriented games. COD, Fortnite, God of War, Elden Ring, Xenoblade, Zelda and many other games prove that. While there will always be a place for turned based games, they will never have the amount of players interested into it as action oriented games. The only mainstream RPG that I can think of that still had or has a turned based combat system is Pokemon.
    Xenoblade is hardly action(it's mmo cd based combat with no dodging and minimal movement), and Xenoblade also sells drastically less than turn based RPGs like Dragon Quest and Persona for the record. How on earth is it being grouped in with the other games you listed lmao?

  7. #487
    Looks like the big CGI summon fights are as scripted as the FF15 Leviathan fight which was also very pretty but ultimately rather dull and would rather watch Anime for big scripted battles because as good as graphics are now its still no Demon slayer quality for example

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    I am not sure you understand what mainstream means and how big the Final Fantasy series is.

    Persona 5 sales are a drip in the ocean compared to what Final Fantasy has produced in the past.


    All four Persona 5 games combined are beat by FF15 alone with over 10m. In comparison, Persona 5 for the PS4 by itself only managed 1.64m in sales.

    There is a market for turn based RPGs. I'm part of that market. However, that is no longer the market that Square-Enix is aiming for with Final Fantasy because it is no longer mainstream. For Final Fantasy games to sell at what they are expected to the franchise had to adapt. So Square-Enix can and should continue to publish games like Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default but Final Fantasy had to and has to continue to move on. They've been struggling to find an identity but I think they're getting close with FFVIIR and FFXVI. We'll see. The only thing for certain is that going backwards, back to turn-based, is not the answer.
    im not sure you understand what mainstream is and how big the pokemon series is........pokemon sword/shield for nintendo switch sold 25 million. final fantasy sales are a drip in the ocean compared to pokemons turn based rpgs.........and most of pokemons games are on handhelds........ then scarlet/violet comes out on switch sells 20M and sword/shield has done 25M..... the market is absolutley there. the sales of the shittiest pokemon turn based rpg of all time sold 9M......nearly every release brings in over 14 million copies sold..... in fact pokemons turn based rpgs have a vastly higher market than final fantasy action rpgs at this moment. you didnt like the games i posted earlier so we shall just go giant for giant..... who has the better numbers.....you dont even have to google the answer.....we talking mainstream yet?
    Last edited by craigw; 2023-04-15 at 08:51 PM.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Xenoblade is hardly action(it's mmo cd based combat with no dodging and minimal movement), and Xenoblade also sells drastically less than turn based RPGs like Dragon Quest and Persona for the record. How on earth is it being grouped in with the other games you listed lmao?
    This, this, and more this. It's not that I have an issue with the "action" combat these jrpgs have turned to, it's how they're implemented. They are faaaaaaar from being actual action combat.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Honestly, this is the direction that FF has been going for a long time now. And for good reason. The mainstream gamer market is based around action oriented games. COD, Fortnite, God of War, Elden Ring, Xenoblade, Zelda and many other games prove that. While there will always be a place for turned based games, they will never have the amount of players interested into it as action oriented games. The only mainstream RPG that I can think of that still had or has a turned based combat system is Pokemon.
    the only game you listed that outproduces pokemon sword/shield (25M) is zelda with 29M copies sold. elden rign 20M, god of war 22M. Cod 16M, fornite(i dont include as its reliant on transactions), xenoblade didnt even break 9M. pokemon turn based rpgs with 440 million copies sold outsells all games you mentioned combined even including the entire zelda franchise (138M) ..... call of duty and fornite doesnt even belong as it not even remotely close to an action rpg but i included it as well.
    Last edited by craigw; 2023-04-15 at 09:08 PM.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    the only game you listed that outproduces pokemon sword/shield (25M) is zelda with 29M copies sold. elden rign 20M, god of war 22M. Cod 16M, fornite(i dont include as its reliant on transactions), xenoblade didnt even break 9M. pokemon turn based rpgs with 440 million copies sold outsells all games you mentioned combined even including the entire zelda franchise (138M) ..... call of duty and fornite doesnt even belong as it not even remotely close to an action rpg but i included it as well.
    You are out of your mind if you think Pokemon outsells CoD or CoD only sells 16 million. CoD is the number 1 selling game in every year that a rockstar game didn't release for the better part of the last 2 decades. MW2 surpassed 1 billion in revenue in only 10 days. Pokemon is huge indeed but it's not CoD what is this wild ass claim lmao. The only IP in traditional gaming bigger than CoD is GTA.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-04-15 at 10:06 PM.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You are out of your mind if you think Pokemon outsells CoD or CoD only sells 16 million. CoD is the number 1 selling game in every year that a rockstar game didn't release for the better part of the last 2 decades. MW2 surpassed 1 billion in revenue in only 10 days. Pokemon is huge indeed but it's not CoD what is this wild ass claim lmao. The only IP in traditional gaming bigger than CoD is GTA.
    call of duty total sales of games worldwide since 2003 is 400 million units. pokemon has indeed passed that. if you are talking about microtransaction then yes an online multiplayer game will always outrevenue a single player non online game...... when straight up game for game its not even close pokemon wins (440Million units) .... and lets throw in that both activision and trearch make call of duty games and is lumped into the franchise as a whole. pokemon has one developer......and pokemon still has sold more copies.... pokemon also makes way way way more money if you throw in merchandise. it has one of the most profitable phone games of all time. merchandise and pokemon go numbers are not included....call of duty combined over 20 years had made 31 billion off games, merchandise, and microtransactions. pokemon go alone has made over 9 billion, the franshise itself is valued at over 75 billion. pokemon believe it or not is the highest grossing franchise ever. of all time..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises now look down the list and see where call of duty is at.......
    Last edited by craigw; 2023-04-15 at 10:31 PM.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    call of duty total sales of games worldwide since 2003 is 400 million units. pokemon has indeed passed that. if you are talking about microtransaction then yes an online multiplayer game will always outrevenue a single player non online game...... when straight up game for game its not even close pokemon wins.... and lets throw in that both activision and trearch make call of duty games and is lumped into the franchise as a whole. pokemon has one developer......and pokemon still has sold more copies....
    Holy copium. The $1 billion was just in full game sales not microtransactions. Call me when Nintendo sells $1 billion worth of Pokemon games in just 10 days. If you think Pokemon is a bigger deal in this world you are living under a rock.

    Governments around the world are spending money to try and figure out if MS should be allowed to own CoD or not and want assurances of no exclusivity and my dude legitimately thinks Pokemon is a bigger IP. The FFXVI thread never ceases to deliver the top tier lul.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-04-15 at 10:28 PM.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Holy copium. The $1 billion was just in full game sales not microtransactions. Call me when Nintendo sells $1 billion worth of Pokemon games in just 10 days. If you think Pokemon is a bigger deal in this world you are living under a rock.

    Governments around the world are spending money to try and figure out if MS should be allowed to own CoD or not and want assurances of no exclusivity and my dude legitimately thinks Pokemon is a bigger IP. The FFXVI thread never ceases to deliver the top tier lul.
    literally makes 40 billion less revenue and thinks its a bigger IP. and thinks GTA competes with CoD and GTA cant even break 3 billion total lifetime. and no its not just video games. the entire franchise worth is 31 billion. franchise includes all money brought in......
    and if MS did buy them pokemon as a franchise would still be worth more with them combined. pokemone is worth more as a franchise than the enitre activision library combined lol. literally what microsoft wants to do is what pokemon already does....... exclusitivity..... you gotall 3 consoles and PCs to reach those numbers and cant, pokemone doing it on little ole nintendos... lol.

    one IP is worth 76 billion the other IP is worth 31 billion, hmm wonder which one is worth more.....but here you are thinking about it......the last pokemon turn based rpg sold 25 million copies on the weakest console system there is. and its exclusive. but nah there isnt a market for it at all. highest grossing video games of all time, just going off vidoe game transactions, pokemon and call of duty are neck and neck.... so yeah pokemon is a bigger deal. first it needs only one console to do those numbers conmpared to 3 and a PC. nintendo/pokemon obviously know how to market better. 40 billion dollars better... then there is a theme park with a whole wing dedicated to pokemon, you know.... cause of the popularity of the IP.

    turn based rpg pokemon go has made over 9 billion itself on one platform. call me when one call of duty game can reach those numbers in its lifetime, and even if it could reach those numbers (it wont ever come close) it takes 3 consoles and a pc to do it.
    Last edited by craigw; 2023-04-16 at 12:02 AM.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    call of duty total sales of games worldwide since 2003 is 400 million units. pokemon has indeed passed that. if you are talking about microtransaction then yes an online multiplayer game will always outrevenue a single player non online game...... when straight up game for game its not even close pokemon wins (440Million units) .... and lets throw in that both activision and trearch make call of duty games and is lumped into the franchise as a whole. pokemon has one developer......and pokemon still has sold more copies.... pokemon also makes way way way more money if you throw in merchandise. it has one of the most profitable phone games of all time. merchandise and pokemon go numbers are not included....call of duty combined over 20 years had made 31 billion off games, merchandise, and microtransactions. pokemon go alone has made over 9 billion, the franshise itself is valued at over 75 billion. pokemon believe it or not is the highest grossing franchise ever. of all time..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises now look down the list and see where call of duty is at.......
    First off, most of Pokemon on that list is because of the card game itself. That isn't part of this discussion as that isn't part of video games itself. A better list would be this. Without the card game, you are looking at a FAR less number, something FAR less than the CoD franchise itself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ame_franchises

    Highest on this list is the Mario franchise followed by Tetris, Pokemon, CoD and GTA. However, if you look at that list, action games combined total absolutely crush Pokemon. CoD, Zelda and FF combined has more sales than Pokemon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    the only game you listed that outproduces pokemon sword/shield (25M) is zelda with 29M copies sold. elden rign 20M, god of war 22M. Cod 16M, fornite(i dont include as its reliant on transactions), xenoblade didnt even break 9M. pokemon turn based rpgs with 440 million copies sold outsells all games you mentioned combined even including the entire zelda franchise (138M) ..... call of duty and fornite doesnt even belong as it not even remotely close to an action rpg but i included it as well.
    While Pokemon does sell a LOT of games, I was pointing out the fact that action oriented games like CoD, GoW, Elden Ring, Zelda and others combined are far more in sales and popularity than turn based games. Hell, even Pokemon is slowly turning into an action oriented game. That is why FF is going to go that route as the appetite for action oriented games is far higher than turn based games. I mean, we could add in WoW to it along with EQ and other MMOs as, while there are turn based MMOs, they are very few and far between and nearly all are action based games.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    First off, most of Pokemon on that list is because of the card game itself. That isn't part of this discussion as that isn't part of video games itself. A better list would be this. Without the card game, you are looking at a FAR less number, something FAR less than the CoD franchise itself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ame_franchises

    Highest on this list is the Mario franchise followed by Tetris, Pokemon, CoD and GTA. However, if you look at that list, action games combined total absolutely crush Pokemon. CoD, Zelda and FF combined has more sales than Pokemon.

    - - - Updated - - -



    While Pokemon does sell a LOT of games, I was pointing out the fact that action oriented games like CoD, GoW, Elden Ring, Zelda and others combined are far more in sales and popularity than turn based games. Hell, even Pokemon is slowly turning into an action oriented game. That is why FF is going to go that route as the appetite for action oriented games is far higher than turn based games. I mean, we could add in WoW to it along with EQ and other MMOs as, while there are turn based MMOs, they are very few and far between and nearly all are action based games.
    pokemon started as a video game in japan. everything after is due to marketing and based off of that video game.

    cod, zelda, and FF cannot all be lumped into action games, they are completely different genres tartegeted for specific audiences. like pokemon is. hell ill just lump all of tetris and pokemon together for the hell of it cause it requires you to think before your actions..... zelda and FF combined dont even come close to pokemon. call of duty is 40 million copies sold behind them(facts). to say call of duty is a greater producing IP as one said is a blatant lie. sorry to burst your bubble but pokemon is a turn based rpg that generates far more revnue than all the games you mentioned (facts). it is the number one producing franchise (facts). and no one is even close to catching them. consistently breaking 15 million copies sold. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...les-worldwide/ 46 million copies sold on switch....90 million copies sold on gamboy, 90 million sold on duel screen in no reality does this say that market is dead. and it was all done exclusively. without any other system or competitor selling the game. call of duty needing 3 systems and the PC sales to come close to a game owned by nintendo and still cant outproduce it is funny.....

    total revenue lifetime generated pokemon has earned 3 times as much as mario has generated. and has generated more revenue than the next 5 franchises combined after mario.....https://www.thegamer.com/pokemon-fra...ses%20combined.
    "Pokémon sales across all platforms have reached $90 billion worldwide. This figure is that much more astonishing considering that it surpasses the combined lifetime sales of the entire Super Mario, Call of Duty, Wii Games, Pac-Man and Space Invaders franchises" pokemon go in 2019 generated nearly 1.4 billion dollars and it was 3 years old at the time.

    over 90% of this video game franchises games are turn based.... Hell, even Pokemon is slowly turning into an action oriented game. nah they arent, on the most recent pokemon game for the switch i can go into a battle and set my controller down and walk away for hours and come back and nothing has happened cause i havent made the move on my turn yet. the absolute definition of a turn based game. the market for it as i said is far from dead. a sandbox open world survival adventure game (not an action based game) is the most popular and played game in the world as of right now.....
    Last edited by craigw; 2023-04-16 at 04:15 AM.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    It's almost like he is an executive at the company and the head of Creative Business Unit III who is making the game. Can't believe he would just barge in and demand he talk about a game he has nothing to do with!
    Not to mention he is much more chill and charming than your average game dev so it's obvious it would be best if he's the one that presents the game.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Not to mention he is much more chill and charming than your average game dev so it's obvious it would be best if he's the one that presents the game.
    Unsurprisingly I haven't seen Val complain about Aonuma doing all the presentations for both BoTW and ToTK when Fujibayashi is the director of the games. It's almost always the producer to do things like this, the dude has some personal grudge Yoshida I really want to know when and where he hurt him.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Yoshida is not the director. Hiroshi Takai is. But apparently people don't know that since Yoshida stole Takai's thunder by being the one who starred in the announcement video, doing all of the interviews, and being the one who hosted the panel, not Takai.
    Yeah how stupid of Square Enix to use their most highly noted developer (That is involved in the game) that the community loves and trusts on their PR tour of trying to get people to be excited and preorder their game.

    The fooooooooooooooooools! If only they listened to you because you absolutely come across as somebody who wants the best for the franchise and doesn't 100% of the time find some nitpick to whine about and explode into some gigantic issue.

    Also you're not even correct lol, Takai is involved in tons of interviews for a bunch of different websites, they just use Yoshida as the PR face for the game because...you know, as I said, people genuinely love him and find him a Metzen-like equivalent for Final Fantasy. There's no way you're unaware of this.

    Val being wrong about something regarding Final Fantasy and framing something dishonestly?

    Truly shocking.

    @Tech614 is right, what did Yoshida do you to?
    Last edited by Arlette; 2023-04-16 at 05:18 AM.

  20. #500
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Val doesn't like that they don't kill main characters often enough in FF14 or something. Regardless of your personal feelings towards FF14, Yoshi P undoubtedly brought a game that was a failure and turned it into one of the most successful and highly acclaimed MMOs on the market right now. It makes sense that they'd make him the face of the game that is supposed to save mainline Final Fantasy.

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