Dianne Feinstein faces calls from fellow Democrats to resign

[Nymrohd]

Ultimately thought the issue here is not even competency. It's not that Feinstein cannot pass an NeuroPsychiatric Inventory (she may have an issue passing it, who knows). It is that a disease is keeping her from serving for a prolonged period of time. That can happen to even young people. Heck I think I remember a case where someone was dead when people vote for them (finding it impossible to find in google since I keep getting news debunking or posting conspiracies about dead people voting . . .)
So what you are looking for is a process to remove or at least replace elected officials (at least Representatives and Senators) who are in some way incapable of attending to their duties for a prolonged period of time.

[Edge-]

The upper age limit is necessary because there's a point where your ability to perform the function you were elected for becomes genuinely questionable. Also Federal Judges are not elected.

So maybe voters shouldn't vote for people who they think are too old?

I'm all for, "Old fucks need to know when to retire" and all but setting an arbitrary cutoff seems pointless as fuck. Maybe voters need to have some responsibility in who it is they vote for?

[jonnysensible]

I do. I've seen them deteriorate, too. A basic competency test should be a relatively trivial burden.

If I had my druthers, I'd apply it to all ages, and it would include some basic comprehension elements, so that if you believe absolutely batshit nonsense like most modern Republicans, you just fail to qualify right at the outset.

thats a poor idea. again. 1 man 1 vote, any adult can run of any age and any belief. The double edged sword of democracy.

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So maybe voters shouldn't vote for people who they think are too old?

I'm all for, "Old fucks need to know when to retire" and all but setting an arbitrary cutoff seems pointless as fuck. Maybe voters need to have some responsibility in who it is they vote for?

exactly 10char

[Elder Millennial]

There is a global standard on how to measure Healthy Life Expectancy (HALE) also noted as Disability-Free Life Expectancy. WHO lists it at 66.1 for the US back at 2019 so it likely has fallen a bit (COVID dropped the numbers across the world). Still would suggest that 55 is quite young.

I think the age I originally mentioned at 68 to 70 being quite reasonable. I'm even willing to go as far as saying that should be the last time someone should be eligible for running for office. So that means an effective retirement being more like 72 to 74 (74-76 in the case of the Senate).

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So maybe voters shouldn't vote for people who they think are too old?

I'm all for, "Old fucks need to know when to retire" and all but setting an arbitrary cutoff seems pointless as fuck. Maybe voters need to have some responsibility in who it is they vote for?

As I said earlier, often voters don't get a choice. Sometimes safe seats are ran unopposed with the party making sure they stay so, they limit the ability to primary incumbents, other times like with Federal Judges those are literal lifetime appointments (I think a reasonable argument can be made that judges shouldn't have to deal with term limits, but then a mandatory retirement age should exist, I think it's more an either or in case of justices.)

[Nymrohd]

I'd say the argument should have less to do about arbitrary age cutoffs and more about representation. Many governments in the world skew older than the population at large. A cursory search shows that the average age of the US congress is 58 while the average age of the electorate is 50. And I'd say that's not that bad. It would be better if it was closer but does an 8 year delta warrant intervention?

Of course if we extend it to the entire population the average age is 38 and then the difference is massive. But then again that comes with the entire idea of what makes someone an adult.

[Endus]

thats a poor idea. again. 1 man 1 vote, any adult can run of any age and any belief. The double edged sword of democracy.

Why?

Why can't 16 year olds vote? Why not 8 year olds? Why can't a 15 year old run for Congress or President?

You say "any adult", but that's exactly as arbitrary as a limit on old age. You're engaging in the same argument you're trying to deny to others, you've just internalized it as "natural" to such a degree you're not conscious that you're doing so.

Also, I'm definitely not going to agree with you on the idea that democracy in and of itself is somehow an idealized system that must not be regulated. Democracies have resulted in horrendous societies. Like Nazi Germany, emerging out of the fully democratic Weimar Republic. Just for a super obvious but by no means exclusive example. Modern Russia's another. "It's democratic" isn't a defense or justification of value, by itself.

[Fugus]

I do. I've seen them deteriorate, too. A basic competency test should be a relatively trivial burden.

If I had my druthers, I'd apply it to all ages, and it would include some basic comprehension elements, so that if you believe absolutely batshit nonsense like most modern Republicans, you just fail to qualify right at the outset.

I wish I could agree with it, but I can easily see it abused by those some groups to make sure to exclude anything that wasn't ideologically aligned with them. We would try and use it to exclude batshit evangelicals and conspiracy theorists who think demons are possessing people they don't like, they would be using it to exclude people who didn't believe in god or didn't think an abortion was murder regardless of what science or their own bible says on the matter.

Having a cut off based on age or flat out mental comprehension and physical ability to move safely without risk of injury can be pretty objective.

[unfilteredJW]

I like being told that 15 years from now I just become to incompetent to lead.

Fucking clown.

[Fugus]

So maybe voters shouldn't vote for people who they think are too old?

I'm all for, "Old fucks need to know when to retire" and all but setting an arbitrary cutoff seems pointless as fuck. Maybe voters need to have some responsibility in who it is they vote for?

Great, you solve the issue of gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement targeting younger and educated voters while also having the public education system start teaching the tax code and critical think as required classes and after a decade or so, the voters will be able to fairly have that option.

Till then they need to have super hero levels of support to have the power in the system to effect that change against the erected obstructions intentionally created to prevent it. Or we can just have a simple majority that can hold the line and keep from losing ground for the next 10 years as the opposition largely dies out and the younger generation actually might have a chance of getting a say in the matter then.

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I like being told that 15 years from now I just become to incompetent to lead.

Fucking clown.

If that's what you think was said, you are that clown.

[unfilteredJW]

Great, you solve the issue of gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement targeting younger and educated voters while also having the public education system start teaching the tax code and critical think as required classes and after a decade or so, the voters will be able to fairly have that option.

Till then they need to have super hero levels of support to have the power in the system to effect that change against the erected obstructions intentionally created to prevent it. Or we can just have a simple majority that can hold the line and keep from losing ground for the next 10 years as the opposition largely dies out and the younger generation actually might have a chance of getting a say in the matter then.

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If that's what you think was said, you are that clown.

Your words.

[Fugus]

Your words.

Then you need to improve your reading comprehension and try again. This has gone on for over a page and if you still can't figure it out, that's a you problem that you need to address.

[unfilteredJW]

I would put the age limit at 55 years old for the judges, congress, senate, and president.

This you @Fugus?

[Fugus]

This you @Fugus?

Yep, now keep reading onto why I explained that and a hint, it wasn't because any individual person was mentally incapable of it, I never said that you weren't mentally capable of doing it in your 60s an onward.

Come on, don't be a tehdang clone with selective reading skills, you can do it.

[unfilteredJW]

Yep, now keep reading onto why I explained that and a hint, it wasn't because any individual person was mentally incapable of it, I never said that you weren't mentally capable of doing it in your 60s an onward.

Come on, don't be a tehdang clone with selective reading skills, you can do it.

“What I said was” lol.

First you help him get elected and then you start channeling the followers. Excellent.

Carry on. I forgot for a moment who I was engaging.

[Fugus]

“What I said was” lol.

First you help him get elected and then you start channeling the followers. Excellent.

Nope, take off those oversized shoes and that big red nose and try again.

Edit: Seriously, you call me a fucking clown but I couldn't do as many wrong takes on stuff as you if I tried.

[Draco-Onis]

Again, air traffic controllers are a perfect example of the other.

And just using dementia as an example, when 85% of your works have a 10-15% chance of having or getting dementia in the near future, that can majorly impact their ability to do their jobs especially in an area where the people putting them there really aren’t paying attention to their performance and going more and name and team recognition. And once they get that recognition it comes really hard to replace them unless they step down or really screw up almost like they have tenure or something.

But just looking at the physical aspect of it, when a simple injury or accident can turn major due to age, that impacts their jobs as well as any physical disability they develop as well.

I don't think air traffic controllers are as perfect example as you make it out to be, it is a high stress job with long hours and a very high suicide rate. The age requirement is mostly to make sure they get an early retirement since surviving the job is a feat onto itself. I do however think medical standards for certain jobs in public service should be a requirement.

We have had presidents with mental decline in office Reagan being the example that comes to mind, failure to pass certain metric should result in them vacating office. I also do not feel comfortable with someone being appointed to any office virtually for life.

[Paranoid Android]

As I said earlier, often voters don't get a choice. Sometimes safe seats are ran unopposed with the party making sure they stay so, they limit the ability to primary incumbents, other times like with Federal Judges those are literal lifetime appointments (I think a reasonable argument can be made that judges shouldn't have to deal with term limits, but then a mandatory retirement age should exist, I think it's more an either or in case of justices.)

This is the case here which is why I'm pissed at California Democrat Party. Feinstein should have been gone the last election cycle for sure. This is the Huuge problem with party politics and 2 party. Nobody wants to rock the boat since they are all in the same private club.

Speaking of private club, Pelosi tried to pull the most bullshit of all bullshit when she stated that the calls on Feinstein to resign are sexist. Piss off you old bat also! Ironically when the conservatives same all the left does is name call and attack for identity politics, Pelosi does this to her own party. Oh! I would call the bs if it was, but Pelosi defending Feinstein is horrible.

Piss off to Kirsten Gillibrand also. She supports Feinstein continuing while ousting Franken. Might not be a comparison or unfair, yet her supporting an invalid shows what a horrible Senator she is.

[Fugus]

I don't think air traffic controllers are as perfect example as you make it out to be, it is a high stress job with long hours and a very high suicide rate. The age requirement is mostly to make sure they get an early retirement since surviving the job is a feat onto itself. I do however think medical standards for certain jobs in public service should be a requirement.

We have had presidents with mental decline in office Reagan being the example that comes to mind, failure to pass certain metric should result in them vacating office. I also do not feel comfortable with someone being appointed to any office virtually for life.

I mentioned the ATC because it was a mentally intensive job that they put age limits on and I mentioned the military because they put those same limits on both new recruits and current members because of the impacts of age.

Agreed on the life time appointments, that should have never been a thing to begin with. I understand the intent but the implementation had the exact opposite impact and made the appointments a heavily political process to the point we have people like the federalist society actually grooming them which is funny when they call others groomers while they do it for judges and too many of their people get caught doing it in their own lives to children and the vulnerable.

I am one of those people where I feel a blanket policy is easier to enforce as you can see everyone of them and their dogs doing everything they can to get a wavier if they have an issue and them poking all the loopholes into it they can.

With a flat age cutoff, its not objectively judging any of them and making it look good or bad with their assessments leaking or them lying about them and so on, its as simple as an "I am too old to qualify anymore" situation. Some really good people who are otherwise qualified will likely be disqualified but for the overall position it would be a net improvement when so much of those issues are no longer a massive concern for the majority our of system.

We have a few pretty healthy 40 year olds who would like join the military but would not make it our the recruitment offices just due to their ages. I again defer to my grandfather who was forced to retire from the Army due to his age. The man served for over 50 years but when he got too old, they cut him loose. Don't know too much about it because I was still in high school at the time and he died a couple years afterward but before then he was just fine, after they cut him, it hit him hard.

I just don't see why we hold them to a lower standard when they can cause for more damage than all these other jobs and we have objective medical evidence to back it up. We just have so many that want to have them at a double standard.

[Elder Millennial]

This is the case here which is why I'm pissed at California Democrat Party. Feinstein should have been gone the last election cycle for sure. This is the Huuge problem with party politics and 2 party. Nobody wants to rock the boat since they are all in the same private club.

Well technically speaking the California Democratic Party agrees with you, that's why last cycle they endorsed Kevin De Leon. The issue was that the DNC and the DNC donors pooped from orbit on what the CDP thought and wholeheartedly endorsed Feinstein and she ended up outspending him like 20 to 1.

Even tho, admittedly De Leon was a shit candidate too.

[DarkTZeratul]

Well technically speaking the California Democratic Party agrees with you, that's why last cycle they endorsed Kevin De Leon. The issue was that the DNC and the DNC donors pooped from orbit on what the CDP thought and wholeheartedly endorsed Feinstein and she ended up outspending him like 20 to 1.

Even tho, admittedly De Leon was a shit candidate too.

I also want to note that the way California's primaries work, typically the election isn't "Republican Senator vs. Democratic Senator," it's "Democratic Senator 1 vs. Democratic Senator 2." Just to really emphasize that she was in no way pushed by California as THE candidate. Voters had a choice between her and another Democrat, and they chose her.