Influencers got their will, Bliz listened to their feedback, yet noone plays game

[Yriel]

As a former EQ player I can agree on the "anti-EQ" bit. When I was initially told about this new game back then called WoW, two things convinced me to try it out; levelling up solo; and "fun factor."

I was playing DaoC back then and yes, those were the reasons for me switching, too.

[Kalisandra]

legion and mop saw new lows in the size of the playerbase.

MoP, compared to Cata, slowed the rate of loss of subs, and levelled it out. Heck, it even managed to not have a massive drop-off towards the end, despite Timeless Isle and SoO being the endgame content for far, far too long. MoP had problems early on, but ended up pretty strong, unlike WoD, let alone BfA and SL.

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Levelling was never enjoyable, even in Vanilla.

I levelled a Paladin. I strongly endorse your post!

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I can believe those numbers. WotLK really did make raiding more difficult. I was rather hardcore back too then, but I remember Ulduar and onwards really demanded more of the players. I had to so many IRL & online friends who did nothing but dungeons and rarely raided. They missed out on lots of raids.

Could just say its a "git gud" thing, but its probably a big reason why LFR got added already in Cata, the xpac right after WotLK. The raid clearing numbers never looked great in wow. Not great at all.

On the other hand, LK raiding rates were higher than BC's by a long way. My server had a really lively PuG raiding scene in LK. The raids often didn't get terribly far, especially in Ulduar-25 (and in ICC I don't think any of the PuGs ever downed Putricide or Lana'thel), but they were a lot of fun, and got a lot of people gear and exposure to raiding that they'd not have gained with their guilds.

10-man and 25-man being on separate lockouts helped a lot because you'd get raiders who raided one size doing the other with a PuG or a half-guild run rounded out with Puggers, so the runs weren't complete amateur hours.

Three things killed them. Firstly, Cata linking the lockouts together, so any PuG runs by pro-raiders would have to be with their alts, so fewer geared people to help carry. Secondly, GC's "Make the dungeons hard, and they'll Git Gud" theory massively shrunk the pool of people geared enough to step into the raids (our server was never huge and never excessive well progressed) and the first raids were not forgiving, unlike LK's version of Naxx. Thirdly, and late in the expansion, the final nail - LFR. Why spend all the time that putting together an on-server pug raid takes (especially a 25-man) when you can just queue up and then go and do dialies and farm until the queue pops? And the gear isn't as good, but failure is extremely unlikely, so you've got good gear drop rates in exchange for lower ilevel vs gear that you might never see because the raid never gets going.

Cata killed the raiding community on my server outside of guilds, and they're all their own little cliques. LFG late in LK had already killed the PuG dungeon community. And they amalgamated the battlegroups about that time too, destroying what PvP community was left.

[Aleksej89]

Personally i dont want a second job, with obligations and schedules and seniors to report to.
I want to play when i feel like it for as long as i feel like it - or not at all.

Sadly WoW does not offer this kind of gameplay at any challenging difficulty.
LFR and normal/heroic dungeons can be done with barely half a team, plus they get old really fast.

PvP is, as always, extremely try-hard and any sense of "just fooling around & trying stuff" died along with those massive open world pvp zones like ashran.

Unlike Legion which had some fun solo at max level content (suramar, class halls), dragonflight feels empty in that regard.
Unless i want to log in and raid/mythicD i got nothing challenging to do - and i am not the "collect them all" pokemon fan type.

Funnily enough WoW classic/tbc had something fun to do yet still somewhat challenging, which was questing/leveling (friends or solo).
God damn was fun going through duskwood and stranglethorn vale.
WotLK has sadly made most of that kinda dead with the mob difficulty reductions and heirlooms etc...
Either way that fun dies at max level, since again the only thing offered is raids.

[Lazerbrain]

i just want more events and social things added to the game, there are loads of unused systems within wow that could be expanded on to help strengthen community activities.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I mean it's been clear for a while now that the goal of their design philosophy is not player satisfaction, the goal is to just keep people subbed. And that's fine, but the amount of content and fun you get out of WoW nowadays does not justify the sub. Even more so when you consider that they'd rather spend time working on features that are purely designed to keep people subbed like the Trading Post and timegated renowns, than on actual content for players to enjoy. Just as an example, I believe it was back in Legion when they promised us to revamp the leveling experience and make it easier and more fun to level alts in old zones... and they did that by nerfing heirlooms and buffing mobs, making it so it took you 200% longer to gain a level than it did before. The way they design dungeons is another example. Ever since Cathedral of Eternal Night, they've been trying to see how much trash and tedious mechanics they can fill dungeons with before players stop bothering with M+.

It is a business after all, but in the early days at least it felt like they were trying to keep people satisfied, to make it worth the sub. Nowadays it's more obvious than ever that they are doing the bare minimum to keep the game alive for profit. Legion was some weird exception that revitalized interest in the game and got people's hopes up for future expansions and Blizzard is still riding that wave.

$15 a month is barely more than a fast food combo these days lol. With inflation it's actually a better deal all the time!

[VinceVega]

Personally i dont want a second job, with obligations and schedules and seniors to report to.
I want to play when i feel like it for as long as i feel like it - or not at all.

Sadly WoW does not offer this kind of gameplay at any challenging difficulty.
LFR and normal/heroic dungeons can be done with barely half a team, plus they get old really fast.

PvP is, as always, extremely try-hard and any sense of "just fooling around & trying stuff" died along with those massive open world pvp zones like ashran.

Unlike Legion which had some fun solo at max level content (suramar, class halls), dragonflight feels empty in that regard.
Unless i want to log in and raid/mythicD i got nothing challenging to do - and i am not the "collect them all" pokemon fan type.

Funnily enough WoW classic/tbc had something fun to do yet still somewhat challenging, which was questing/leveling (friends or solo).
God damn was fun going through duskwood and stranglethorn vale.
WotLK has sadly made most of that kinda dead with the mob difficulty reductions and heirlooms etc...
Either way that fun dies at max level, since again the only thing offered is raids.

Thats a bit rosecolored though isn't it? Leveling was never challenging... just slow. Except maybe your VERY first character ever.
Sure you died if you pulled to much. But at the same time it was rather difficult to actually pull too much in the first place.

There also was never any challenging endgame besides raid and PvP until M+ came along. And Blizzard cannot EVER put anything challenging into content that is accessible without any hurdle. People run amok at the slightest challenge in casual gameplay. Remeber THorgast? Was actually fun in the begining. Then they had no nerf it into oblivion.
Visions with all mask is the only really repeatable challenging content i really remember. Magetower is a do once activity.

I agree though that DF feels a bit empty storywise once you hit max level. I LOVED Suramar and the fact that you did not have to grind it to get the next part.
But do you remember how people ABSOLUTLY LOATHED the fact that it was timegated? It is still one of the big things people mention they hated about legion.
I didn't. I like getting new quest over 2 months and would celebrate something like this again.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

$15 a month is barely more than a fast food combo these days lol. With inflation it's actually a better deal all the time!

Then pay it. There are games that offer a lot more content and fun for the same amount of money. Heck, some of them are even free.

[Kul]

From just released earnings:

Following the November release of the DragonflightTM expansion for the Modern game, our World of Warcraft team is delivering more content faster than ever before, and subscriber retention in the West is higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions.

[Shadowferal]

From just released earnings: Following the November release of the DragonflightTM expansion for the Modern game, our World of Warcraft team is delivering more content faster than ever before, and subscriber retention in the West is higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions.

*chuckles*
...vague slippery words.

[Reive]

• Blizzard segment revenue increased 62% year-over-year in the first quarter, with each of Warcraft, Overwatch
and Diablo contributing to growth. Segment operating income was broadly stable year-over-year, reflecting higher
development and marketing costs, including launch investment ahead of the second quarter release of Diablo IV.
Activision Blizzard Announces Q1 2023 Financial Results
4
• The Overwatch and World of Warcraft teams delivered substantial in-game content and live operations to excite
and sustain their communities following major product launches in the fourth quarter. Following the November
release of the DragonflightTM expansion for the Modern game, our World of Warcraft team is delivering more
content faster than ever before, and subscriber retention in the West is higher than at the equivalent stage of
recent Modern expansions. While Overwatch engagement moderated versus the Overwatch 2 launch quarter,
hours played were approximately twice the levels seen prior to the release of the free-to-play experience. Season
3, which launched in February, drove strong retention and consistent player investment versus the prior season.


From the new quaterly report.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Then pay it. There are games that offer a lot more content and fun for the same amount of money. Heck, some of them are even free.

I do? It's nothing lol. Gaming in general is an insanely cheap hobby compared to many others, or even just drinking etc

But I have friends who also play the game, which seems to be the biggest thing for people on his forum. Zero game relationships formed in over a decade somehow

[Alroxas]

*chuckles*
...vague slippery words.

But technically the truth, lying to shareholders is a pretty big SEC offense. They have to be truthful and mostly transparent (as determined by the SEC regulations). Now what they don't need to do is disclose every single detail but they can't grossly mislead their shareholders.

[Shadowferal]

subscriber retention in the West is higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions

So this could mean a few more subscribers didn't cancel as fast from DF as they did when BFA and SL were released....go team?

[Lochton]

Until you want pve progression. Then you have to play raids or mythic+.

Well. PvE progression kinda speaks that you need to do raiding. You can ignore Mythic+ unless you wish some sort of competitive view in your progression path.

[Donkeywing]

subscriber retention in the West is higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions

So this could mean a few more subscribers didn't cancel as fast from DF as they did when BFA and SL were released....go team?

Higher retention is expected at lower sub counts when you account for stable factors like diehards, raiding (commitments), classic, etc. They're barely saying anything.

[Johnjohn]

As a former EQ player I can agree on the "anti-EQ" bit. When I was initially told about this new game back then called WoW, two things convinced me to try it out; levelling up solo; and "fun factor."

I actually still really enjoyed Everquest when I quit (I was a raid tank in Gates of Discord). The problem was to be a raid tank at that level required way to much of a personal sacrifice. The game required you to have no life to get anywhere. While I would not call WoW the anti-Everquest as it had so many similarities at release, the fact that hardcore raiders from Everquest saw how insane it was and helped mold WoW in the opposite direction was a very good thing.

I honestly never recall people calling WoW the MacDonald's of mmos in 2004 either(maybe a few bitter hardcore players from other mmos) I remember that coming later when things like group finder and every other non social aspect of the game started to creep into the fray.

2004-2010 WoW to me is really the perfect blend of mmo. Everquest had the right formula, it was just insane how obsessed they were until GOD with catering to the hardcore player and spitting on everyone else. The developers were 100% convinced this had to be done or the game would keel over. 2004 WoW actually showed the entire genre that catering to the casual player was actually a good thing for everyone. Blizzard along with hardcore players from other mmos developed a perfect blend, and the numbers show that.

The irony today is that dungeoning and raiding in Everquest live is actually easier than Mythic+ dungeons and raiding in WoW. Its insane to to me that this has happened. The whole script has flipped. WoW is one of the worst mmos for casual players now. Influencers and other tryhards can say that a few more bones in DF or no systems changes that, but I sure as hell don't see it. If I am never going to beat the hardest dungeons or raids or get anywhere in PVP at all by not dedicating my life to the game, its not casual sorry.

[Shadowferal]

The irony today is that dungeoning and raiding in Everquest live is actually easier than Mythic+ dungeons and raiding in WoW. Its insane to to me that this has happened. The whole script has flipped. WoW is one of the worst mmos for casual players now. Influencers and other tryhards can say that a few more bones in DF or no systems changes that, but I sure as hell don't see it. If I am never going to beat the hardest dungeons or raids or get anywhere in PVP at all by not dedicating my life to the game, its not casual sorry.

I confess, I'm thinking of EQ2 nowadays, when I'm not trying to rewrite WoW lore.

[Doffen]

Higher retention is expected at lower sub counts when you account for stable factors like diehards, raiding (commitments), classic, etc. They're barely saying anything.

Yeah, its not rocket science.

But if thats good enough for those players then its going to live a lot more years. Heck I subbed for a month three weeks ago, been online once.

Old habit.

[Skylarking]

Shadowlands being shit and FF14 poaching players during that shitshow is certainly not helping the expansion right now. Problem is retail is simply too much for a lot of players and it shows with how much people play classic. They want to play wow but not the mechanical mess that is retail they just want something simple.

[Elanore Maroth]

I recently started playing wow again and I really enjoy the game. Dragonflight is a lot of fun, the expansion of the lore is really interesting as well. On top of that the lack of mandatory content gives me time to play multiple characters. I have played wow for many years since Vanilla and my playstyle has changed a lot, the current expansion just fits for me now. I am in my thirties with young children and a full time job. If wow had made a lot of mandatory things and made me feel like I was missing out if I didn’t log in every day I would not have come back. I would have gone to a different game.

For some it wouldn’t matter but I have always been a completionist and I like taking my time. I know many players like myself who are still hesitant to resub and are waiting a bit longer. Which is very good, if you have doubts do not come back yet. But don’t write off WoW just yet.