Mythic Difficulty - Thoughts/ideas

[Squigglyo]

Dunno which subforum to post this so General it is.


The difficulty of raids/mythic+ has been discussed a lot and I had an idea in the back of my mind that I thought could solve a lot of issues.

Personally, I get KSH and teleports every season. This season has been the worst for pugs, I think, due to the gear being upgrades up to +20, you had people playing all the way up to +20 just for gear.
Last season, +15 was the cap, and anyone above that was there for the prestige (teleports, titles, rating), the grind was much more fun, you didnt pug into a +16 or higher unless you were aiming for something.

You'de also see players joining Mythic raids and leaving after getting enough kills for their vault, making it very difficult to pull in replacements.


What if
Mythic+ goes back to how it was. Gear got better up until +15. After that, it was capped at whatever +15 ilvl was. This gear would be the same ilvl as Heroic gear. The only reason to push above +15 was for the 'prestige' awards achievements/teleports/mounts/etc


And then, Mythic Raiding followed the same logic. Mythic difficulty was for prestige. Maybe it drops Heroic loot, maybe more drops. Maybe have a 'mythic transmog' tint to it.

The entire point of the difficulty would be the fights/mechanics, not the loot. The entire point of clearing it would be for the titles/mounts/prestige - which ultimatly, for the people pushing CE, is the only thing that matters.
Without a 'higher set' of gear, the raid, at that difficulty becomes all about skill, practice and organisation.
Once your decked out in full heroic gear, your at the gear cap, you dont need to chip away at Mythic progression while also hoping for gear. You are at the pinacle of content, your focus is on the content.

The downside would be that Mythic would then be 'clearable' in Heroic gear, which could lead to a faster clear rate, but the ones clearing it fast in heroic gear, were likely to clear it fast anyway. For the general players, having the pinnacle difficulty being more accessable, cleared in a reasonable timeframe and with a ceiling for entry, should be a positive. The difficulty could be tuned with this in mind too, so the fights could be harder to compenstate for there being no more upgrades.


The top end content then becomes the end goal, not a part of the gearing process.




This would make the higher tier of content more accessible by providing a ceiling to entry. You can fully gear up in do-able content and then step into the highest difficulty. For both Mythic+ and Mythic Raid.


By the end of a season, getting into Mythic raids or high keys without being overgeared, becomes difficult.
The point of this would be to make it much easier to 'get into' or 'get ready' for the most difficult content, while eliminating the need to DO that content to get INTO that content.



This would also help the issue of Mythic+ being a better gear source in certain seasons, or raiding being better. They would both cap out at the same, one might be faster/easier/grindier, but ultimatly once you reach the 'gear cap' THEN you start to play with the hard stuff.


Would you push mythic+ above +15s if there gear stopped 15?
- Every season prior to this one shows yes, thats acceptable.

Would you still raid Mythic is there was no upgrade in gear?
- Personally, I would. It seems more of a challenge but also easier to step into.


I think that Mythic Raiding being more accessible, is a positive. It doesnt need to be easier to be cleared by more people, just more accessible and having the gearing pathway not require Mythic, I think, would be a big hit.



TLDR
Would Mythic Raiding be enjoyable if it just dropped Heroic gear? Having it be the hardest difficulty (alongside high keys) without having also as part of the gearing process, purely for the prestige/transmog/mounts.

[Lochton]

Make keys only deplete upon succesful completion.

Make dungeons have more barriers/preventers to avoid the brain dead rush and hold, reduce the mob demand, make people rethink the use of pathing vs. time.

Make shortcuts connect to professions. All dungeons should have 1-2 short cuts which can only be used if you have someone of that profession in the group.

Make Mythic+ loot cap at End-Heroic Item Level.

Make Mythic+ loot after item level cap be upgraded by special currency.

Make this Mythic+ Special currency only drop in Mythic+ or Heroic/Mythic raiding, and none of the loot may exceed End level Mythic gear.

Make this new Mythic+ currency to be earned from 5+ and up.

Make an NPC for this new Mythic+ currency unlock after the achievement of all Mythic+ dungeons completed at 5+ (This should reset pr. season, not the currency)

Make the Mythic+ gear earned from previous season unable to be upgraded further to keep up with new raid tiers, making them have to work at acquiring a new setup.

Make the new Mythic+ NPC only sell cosmetics which can be bought by all with access and currency enough.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

You could get the best of both worlds with m+ having more progression than before by having loot go up to 20 but just pull back on the scaling so that 20s are easier. You'll still end up with the old feeling of stuff above X being about pushing rather than gear.

I don't think it's a huge deal though, with crafting now giving insane ilvl and you only need 17s for that.

- - - Updated - - -

Make shortcuts connect to professions. All dungeons should have 1-2 short cuts which can only be used if you have someone of that profession in the group.
.

ngl I hate stuff like this, forcing people into profs like Covenants in SL. Did not work out well in practice

[Lochton]

ngl I hate stuff like this, forcing people into profs like Covenants in SL. Did not work out well in practice

Then remove the existence of shortcuts of any sort? "Not gonna lie" I hate people harassing people for not knowing shortcuts. Make them either known by icon for professions to point the way, or make them not be there at all.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Then remove the existence of shortcuts of any sort? "Not gonna lie" I hate people harassing people for not knowing shortcuts. Make them either known by icon for professions to point the way, or make them not be there at all.

They are cool thematically and seem like a great thing for mega-dungeons or even normal dungeons that are more of an "Adventure", but I dont think they can really exist in m+

Frankly even the court profession buffs this patch are pretty lame. Depending on what you get it can make a huge difference

[Echocho]

They are cool thematically and seem like a great thing for mega-dungeons or even normal dungeons that are more of an "Adventure", but I dont think they can really exist in m+

Frankly even the court profession buffs this patch are pretty lame. Depending on what you get it can make a huge difference

Then m+ has to go. It's limiting the game and the developers from being able to create great things.

[Relapses]

Nah, WoW players already suck enough even with the existence of difficult content. The game does not need to be easier. The important factor is the granularity between difficulty levels and frankly that's better now than it's ever been.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Then m+ has to go. It's limiting the game and the developers from being able to create great things.

That's never going to happen but you do you!

[Lochton]

They are cool thematically and seem like a great thing for mega-dungeons or even normal dungeons that are more of an "Adventure", but I dont think they can really exist in m+

Frankly even the court profession buffs this patch are pretty lame. Depending on what you get it can make a huge difference

They can easily exist in M+? Your group saves time if you have one of the professions to open the way, your group can still complete without the shortcut? Makes even more sense to add the ability of a shortcut into timed content more than people yelling at new players for not knowing short cuts.

- - - Updated - - -

Remove the time run component.

I would play mythic+ if it was removed.

No thanks. The timed has to stay, so does affixes, it is the attitude of some people that has to go.

- - - Updated - - -

Then m+ has to go. It's limiting the game and the developers from being able to create great things.

Naw. Mythic+ is a great idea only ruined by most people using it. Love the idea of M+, and do run some nowadays as long as I can avoid random people. I want M+ to be designed with altering mob layouts, the demand of coordination, and use of the game to complete it. We need to get rid of pathing being a demand, need to get rid of forced expectations shoved upon other people who aren't even running them.

The key should not deplete as long as you do not successfully complete it.

[enigma77]

What if we add Very Rare items to m+ and give people a reason to play M+ other than for pointless score and worthless "prestige".

Mythic Raid difficulty needs to be giga nerfed so normal players (who are willing to show up 2 or 3 times a week) can actually clear it.

[Biomega]

Mythic Raid difficulty needs to be giga nerfed so normal players (who are willing to show up 2 or 3 times a week) can actually clear it.

What if I told you that for those players, there exists not one but TWO other difficulties they can do that are "giga nerfed" compared to mythic!

[Caerrona]

Garbage players need to stop being so entitled into thinking they deserve the best gear.

[arkanon]

TLDR
Would Mythic Raiding be enjoyable if it just dropped Heroic gear? Having it be the hardest difficulty (alongside high keys) without having also as part of the gearing process, purely for the prestige/transmog/mounts.

What is the motivation for the change? What outcome are you hoping to achieve with the change?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

They can easily exist in M+? Your group saves time if you have one of the professions to open the way, your group can still complete without the shortcut? Makes even more sense to add the ability of a shortcut into timed content more than people yelling at new players for not knowing short cuts.

.

I personally find it annoying to end up needing a certain profession or whatever else to complete a dungeon. And yes, you may not *need* it, but realistically it will immediately become the expectation, just like the skip in Mists in SL. Really all of SL was rotating around having at least one person in the Cov per dungeon and I personally didn't enjoy that, I would rather invite the best player.

But to each their own, I understand the potential merit in it.

[trapmaster]

That's never going to happen but you do you!

Then the playerbase will continue shrink if we are going to that route... But hey, you do you continue personal score time attack!

[Biomega]

Then the playerbase will continue shrink if we are going to that route... But hey, you do you continue personal score time attack!

Damn, where ARE people getting all that information from? People always seem to know exactly what's causing player number drops and how to prevent it, but whenever I try to find out I just run into a brick wall of unavailable numbers and pure speculation. What is the secret behind such certainty? I MUST KNOW!

[munkeyinorbit]

What if we add Very Rare items to m+ and give people a reason to play M+ other than for pointless score and worthless "prestige".

Mythic Raid difficulty needs to be giga nerfed so normal players (who are willing to show up 2 or 3 times a week) can actually clear it.

There is already a reason to play m+. It's called gear.

Mythic raiding is already giga nerfed. It's called heroic raiding.

Why are you asking for stuff that is already available?

[arkanon]

Damn, where ARE people getting all that information from? People always seem to know exactly what's causing player number drops and how to prevent it, but whenever I try to find out I just run into a brick wall of unavailable numbers and pure speculation. What is the secret behind such certainty? I MUST KNOW!

So you dont think a steady decline in active monthly users is not evidence of a reduction in playerbase?

[Relapses]

So you dont think a steady decline in active monthly users is not evidence of a reduction in playerbase?

...the decline hasn't been "steady" and there's absolutely no fucking way to know how many of Blizzard's MAU's are playing exclusively WoW so any information you glean from the QRs is completely useless for the sake of these discussions.

[Elbob]

Remove the time run component.

I would play mythic+ if it was removed.

i dont believe you