Shadowflame is lame

[Al Gorefiend]

Perhaps i should've been more specific, is that anywhere directly acknowledged within the game?
As in for example some npc remarking "this is the same power Nefarian employed", as the Shadowflame breath in BWL looked brownish / red in tone, whereas the Shadowflame featured in 10.1 has a purple tint to it.

They just decided it was a cooler color scheme, I wouldn't dig into it more than that tbh

[Eon Drache]

That Nefarian would likely be far more corrupted than he appeared to be, if he worked with the same corruptive influence as his father did.
After all, Deathwing later on required metal plating to keep his body together, Nefarian didn't.

Deathwing also took over 20,000 years to become corrupted to that point. As far as I can tell Nefarian might be about 500 years old ish?

[Al Gorefiend]

That Nefarian would likely be far more corrupted than he appeared to be, if he worked with the same corruptive influence as his father did.
After all, Deathwing later on required metal plating to keep his body together, Nefarian didn't.

The metal plating was because tentacles, so I'd say he went full blown void just like what we see with void elves and other things that go full void like corrupted animals even. I wonder why Deathwing wanted to keep the tentacles wrapped up

[Kralljin]

Deathwing also took over 20,000 years to become corrupted to that point. As far as I can tell Nefarian might be about 500 years old ish?

Nefarian is Deathwing's oldest son, so he's likely been around for far longer.
If some non aspect dragons can remember the Dragon Isles (a land that was locked away for over 10k years), then i would be surprised that Deathwing didn't sire any children until way later.

Nevermind that this argument would raise the can of worms of he got access to Shadowflame to begin with, as that stuff (?) was located inside Neltharions secret laboratory on the Dragon Isles, which by this point was pretty much not accessible to anyone.

The metal plating was because tentacles, so I'd say he went full blown void just like what we see with void elves and other things that go full void like corrupted animals even. I wonder why Deathwing wanted to keep the tentacles wrapped up

His body was kinda melting with it turning into Magma / Lava, the tentacle stuff didn't come about until Cataclysm.

Deathwing received his first set of plates around / after the War of the Ancients and then another one during his stay in Deepholm.

I'm not sure, I don't know if we're going to learn more about shadowflame and how it corrupts or if I'm just missing something.

I'd be cautious to automatically associate shadow with void / Old Gods stuff.

That may be a spin of the modern lore, but Shadow used to be also closely associated with demons, the amount of Demons out there using Shadow based spells is damn massive and they're not necessarily connected to the void / old gods.
Warlocks are still doing a lot of Shadow damage and their association with the Old Gods is still damn low.

[Eon Drache]

Nefarian is Deathwing's oldest son, so he's likely been around for far longer.
If some non aspect dragons can remember the Dragon Isles (a land that was locked away for over 10k years), then i would be surprised that Deathwing didn't sire any children until way later.

Nevermind that this argument would raise the can of worms of he got access to Shadowflame to begin with, as that stuff (?) was located inside Neltharions secret laboratory on the Dragon Isles, which by this point was pretty much not accessible to anyone.

Its pretty hard to pinpoint the age for some characters in WoW. The only indication I could find was that Deathwing didn't attempt to mate with Sintharia until AFTER he went mad and became disfigured.

[Sorrowseer]

I find all the primal proto's just weird, like i simply don't understand that millenia of inprisonment has done of anything tot hema nd they instantly have nefarious plane to enact the moment they are released and have not just been simply stomped out by the present forces on azeroth at the dragon isles, yeah I get it, gameplay, but its just such a pain to be aware of this and just have to nod along every time a silly thing happens.

Not to mention yet another cult, that pops up from nothing, there is NEVER shortage of insane weirdo's who will work for clearly any evil and incompetant bad guys that pop up.

[Kralljin]

Its pretty hard to pinpoint the age for some characters in WoW. The only indication I could find was that Deathwing didn't attempt to mate with Sintharia until AFTER he went mad and became disfigured.

He's a Dragon aspect, meaning that he's, to put it mildly, old as fuck.

The assumption that he hasn't sired any kids until recently seems pretty unlikely.

And as said earlier, Nefarian being relatively young would just raise the question of how he got the Shadowflame in the first place, as this was pretty much locked away since the Dragon Isles became inaccessible.

The only indication I could find was that Deathwing didn't attempt to mate with Sintharia until AFTER he went mad and became disfigured.

I think you're reading too much into how Sinestra got her scars.

Simply because that's how she get her scars, doesn't mean Neltharion never slept with her before, her being a prime consort naturally implies that he slept with her before.

[Dimmak]

Out of curiosity because i'm kinda out of the loop on this one: Has this Shadowflame stuff any connection to the Shadowflame of Nefarian (and his Drakes) in BWL?

Or is the naming largely "coincidental"?

It's in fact the very same Shadow Flame power we faced back in Onyxias Layer and Black Wing Layer. In fact if you have an Onyxia Scale cloak it by possess some of the puzzles in Z Cavern. For example if you wear it you can open the shadow flame chest.

[Aleksej89]

shadowlands and dragonflight have a big problem with naming stuff.
zoval, raszageth, fyrakk, loamm niffen etc are all names that both sound really lame and are not easy to memorize.

Also blizzard has REALLY intensified the "baby proof" approach to story telling where you are in your safe space constantly.
The whole environment and story does not feel like a war, nor do i feel like i am in danger nor do i feel like the main NPCs are in danger.
Villains refuse to do anything meaningful... even when they yell they seem disingenuous in their threats.

[huth]

Out of curiosity because i'm kinda out of the loop on this one: Has this Shadowflame stuff any connection to the Shadowflame of Nefarian (and his Drakes) in BWL?

Or is the naming largely "coincidental"?

There's a chest that actually requires the Onyxia Scale cloak to open because of Shadowflame. It's the same thing. Visual differences are mostly down to changes in art direction since Vanilla.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Perhaps i should've been more specific, is that anywhere directly acknowledged within the game?
As in for example some npc remarking "this is the same power Nefarian employed", as the Shadowflame breath in BWL looked brownish / red in tone, whereas the Shadowflame featured in 10.1 has a purple tint to it.

They changed shadow flame to be purple in cata including Nefarians breath in black wing descent.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nefarian%27s_End

[Eon Drache]

He's a Dragon aspect, meaning that he's, to put it mildly, old as fuck.

The assumption that he hasn't sired any kids until recently seems pretty unlikely.

And as said earlier, Nefarian being relatively young would just raise the question of how he got the Shadowflame in the first place, as this was pretty much locked away since the Dragon Isles became inaccessible.

I think you're reading too much into how Sinestra got her scars.

Simply because that's how she get her scars, doesn't mean Neltharion never slept with her before, her being a prime consort naturally implies that he slept with her before.

Well, we know he had no kids until after his corruption, so at MOST Nefarian and Onyxia are 10,000 years old. And we know that after creating the Dragon Soul, which is what caused his body to rip he went into a deep sleep until the first war. So he was sleeping for about 9,000 years.

[username993720]

Quick question:

Is Al'ar Shadowflame?

[Kralljin]

It's in fact the very same Shadow Flame power we faced back in Onyxias Layer and Black Wing Layer.

I already acknowledged this and also added that this would obviously raise the question why we aren't employing any similiar strategy.
If Black Dragon scales protect you from the worst effects of Shadowflame, that would be damn useful.

Also, Ony didn't have Shadowflame, only Nefarian and 3 Black Drakes inside BWL.

There's a chest that actually requires the Onyxia Scale cloak to open because of Shadowflame. It's the same thing. Visual differences are mostly down to changes in art direction since Vanilla.

See above, feel free to explain why this isn't directly acknowledged outside of the acquisition of some toy (which might've been designed by some World designer, as a nod to BWL rather than someone with indepth lore knowledge).

Because if it's same thing, i think that connection should be made and also has some implications (because the special thing about the Shadowflame is that the player is able to protect itself from its worst effect).

Well, we know he had no kids until after his corruption, so at MOST Nefarian and Onyxia are 10,000 years old.

Again, you essentially assume that because we only of one instance where Deathwing had sex, that this was the only time he actually sex.
The fact that he used to have multiple consorts also is a big hint that he could have sired children before his corruption.

And as i said earlier, even this is true, it raises the big question how Nefarian got Shadowflame in the first place, because the only place that exists was inaccessible to everyone outside of the Dragon Isles after WotA.
Unless you start to address this, i'm not going to bother replying, because this is a giant hole in your theory.
I mentioned it twice and you completely disregarded it twice.

[Eon Drache]

I already acknowledged this and also added that this would obviously raise the question why we aren't employing any similiar strategy.
If Black Dragon scales protect you from the worst effects of Shadowflame, that would be damn useful.

Also, Ony didn't have Shadowflame, only Nefarian and 3 Black Drakes inside BWL.

See above, feel free to explain why this isn't directly acknowledged outside of the acquisition of some toy (which might've been designed by some World designer, as a nod to BWL rather than someone with indepth lore knowledge).

Because if it's same thing, i think that connection should be made and also has some implications (because the special thing about the Shadowflame is that the player is able to protect itself from its worst effect).

Again, you essentially assume that because we only of one instance where Deathwing had sex, that this was the only time he actually sex.
The fact that he used to have multiple consorts also is a big hint that he could have sired children before his corruption.

And as i said earlier, even this is true, it raises the big question how Nefarian got Shadowflame in the first place, because the only place that exists was inaccessible to everyone outside of the Dragon Isles after WotA.
Unless you start to address this, i'm not going to bother replying, because this is a giant hole in your theory.
I mentioned it twice and you completely disregarded it twice.

I'm not assuming. Sinestra was badly damaged because she mated with Deathwing. This was a big plot because she ended up hating Deathwing. She was scarred for life. She was also the ONLY consort of Deathwing's to live. This is known and fact. She is also the mother of Nefarian and Onyxia, and Nefarian is Deathwing's eldest son.

As far as how Nefarian got shadowflame, it is very likely Deathwing brought it out of his lab. Shadowflame isn't exactly rare in WoW. It also isn't native to Azeroth. Shadowflame has been used by Warlocks, Shadowmages, the Twilight's Hammer and even the Scourge. Deathwing did talk to his kids, after all. He did instruct them to create new Dragonflights. He could have told them how to make Shadowflame. Shadowflame has also been used by Twilight Dragons.

[huth]

See above, feel free to explain why this isn't directly acknowledged outside of the acquisition of some toy (which might've been designed by some World designer, as a nod to BWL rather than someone with indepth lore knowledge).

Because if it's same thing, i think that connection should be made and also has some implications (because the special thing about the Shadowflame is that the player is able to protect itself from its worst effect).

Why should it be? That Nefarian had it isn't relevant to the current story. Shadowflame also clearly is a known phenomenon, it's not treated as something nobody has ever seen before.

As for the "worst effects", you seem to have forgotten that those only happened in one single instance of its use. Even in the second bout with Nefarian no protection was needed.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not assuming. Sinestra was badly damaged because she mated with Deathwing.

Post-corruption deathwing. The one that is bursting at the seams. And injured, not "damaged". They did the deed just fine before the corruption, the injuries stemmed from the fact that at this point, Deathwing wasn't even safe to be in the same room with.

All of Neltharion's Black Dragon children are older than 10,000 years. Sinestra was the only one even able to produce any after, and those were all made Twilight.

[Kralljin]

Why should it be? That Nefarian had it isn't relevant to the current story. Shadowflame also clearly is a known phenomenon, it's not treated as something nobody has ever seen before.

Blizzard is making a huge deal out of Shadowflame, so i would imagine that the first case it actually appeared within the game would at be mentioned, since it also featured an aspect how to protect yourself against it.

But the connection isn't explored at all beyond the acquisition of a toy.

As for the "worst effects", you seem to have forgotten that those only happened in one single instance of its use. Even in the second bout with Nefarian no protection was needed.

Which likely comes down to design reasons, as by the time of cata, wearing specific items for a single encounter came out of fashion and they didn't bother to add anything as to why a cloak isn't necessary anymore.

And that doesn't even mention that Sabellian got a taste of Shadowflame and seemed cause him great pain - as a Black Dragon who should be pretty resistant if black dragon scales are supposed to protect you from it.

Shadowflame isn't exactly rare in WoW.

If it was pretty common, people wouldn't break into some secretive lab only very few people know about in order to acquire it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm not assuming. Sinestra was badly damaged because she mated with Deathwing. This was a big plot because she ended up hating Deathwing. She was scarred for life. She was also the ONLY consort of Deathwing's to live. This is known and fact. She is also the mother of Nefarian and Onyxia, and Nefarian is Deathwing's eldest son.

The new raid has a black dragon named Kazzara that death wing was experimenting on if Nefarian is to be his oldest he needs to be atleast 20 thousand years old to line up with deathwings experiments on Kazzara and the dracthyr.

[Eon Drache]

The new raid has a black dragon named Kazzara that death wing was experimenting on if Nefarian is to be his oldest he needs to be atleast 20 thousand years old to line up with deathwings experiments on Kazzara and the dracthyr.

Is it confirmed Kazzara is one of Deathwings children?

[Aucald]

Is it confirmed Kazzara is one of Deathwings children?

Not that we know of, no. All we know of Kazzara is that she was one of the original subjects for Neltharion's Shadowflame experiments in Aberrus. Neltharion's only confirmed children are Nefarian, Onyxia, Nyxondra, and Sabellian.