Who's bright idea was all the new currencies?

[Deneios]

Yeah how hard it is to understand? Stone via rarity of the item and epic gear requires epic stone to upgrade. And all of them use the abundant flightstones.

If this is too complex dont touch Path of exiles.

[Zka]

I miss Titanforging so much. Probably one of the most enjoyable things to be ruined by community bandwagoning.

+100
There was literally nothing wrong with TF. It was loot whores crying about not getting the TF loot they wanted. They cried loud enough to convince enough people in the community so that Blizz had to act.
TF provided huge replay value for low-mid difficulty content, now it's gone. Good job community.

[Stickiler]

+100
There was literally nothing wrong with TF. It was loot whores crying about not getting the TF loot they wanted. They cried loud enough to convince enough people in the community so that Blizz had to act.
TF provided huge replay value for low-mid difficulty content, now it's gone. Good job community.

TF definitely had downsides, in that while it certainly gave replay value to low-mid difficulty content, but it also enforced the replay value on that content. If you were trying to push progression(Regardless of whether that was Normal/Heroic/Mythic) you basically felt forced to run everything available, even if there were no upgrades, because it could randomly TF. It felt really bad.

[Lordofbelbol]

people wanted their WQ gear to be upgraded to high ilvl, this is the way.

[crusadernero]

Flight stones, whelp stones, this stone that stone, combine 10 of those, 3 of these, smash that, do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around...

For FUCKs sake just 1 currency would have sufficed.

Agreed. Its to much. To the point were I really dont give a shit about them. I cant even be bothered to find out what they really do. In the end I know I gotta run m+ or raid to get good gear anyway, so I dont really care.

- - - Updated - - -

+100
There was literally nothing wrong with TF. It was loot whores crying about not getting the TF loot they wanted. They cried loud enough to convince enough people in the community so that Blizz had to act.
TF provided huge replay value for low-mid difficulty content, now it's gone. Good job community.

TF was removed to aliveate and to be honest - Help the playerbase to control themself. Players would farm raids on any difficulty to get that TF drop. In essence, Blizzard had to help the players away from degen playstyle.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah how hard it is to understand? Stone via rarity of the item and epic gear requires epic stone to upgrade. And all of them use the abundant flightstones.

If this is too complex dont touch Path of exiles.

Well, most people dont touch PoE for that reason. Cool game, but for a niche crowd.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, what were they thinking, they can't overload WoW players' tiny brains with all that wtf...

Fair enough, but its getting rather ridicoulous by now. Theres several new currencies in 10.1 that goes along with all the other ones.

Im fine with it, in the sense that I dont really give a shit about them.

[Kathranis]

I don't think it's really that complicated, it's basically just different currencies for upgrading different gear from different types of content, so players can have progression in all types of content without one type of content infringing on the other.

I do think it could have been simplified a bit: just have four tiers of upgrade currency and put them in the currency tab.

Don't need to be having us collect and combine fragments. Instead of giving us fragments and combine 15 of them into a crest to do an upgrade that costs a crest, just give us 15 crests and make the upgrade cost 15 crests.

[WoWenjoyer]

TF was removed to aliveate and to be honest - Help the playerbase to control themself. Players would farm raids on any difficulty to get that TF drop. In essence, Blizzard had to help the players away from degen playstyle.

Okay, what % of the playerbase did this affect though? Anyone with a basic understanding of mathematics would understand that farming LFR for a chance of titanforging would be insanity.

Blizzard having to remove titanforge just to stop the most degen of the top 1 % from farming LFR / normal sounds insane to me.

TF definitely had downsides, in that while it certainly gave replay value to low-mid difficulty content, but it also enforced the replay value on that content. If you were trying to push progression(Regardless of whether that was Normal/Heroic/Mythic) you basically felt forced to run everything available, even if there were no upgrades, because it could randomly TF. It felt really bad.

I mean, if you are pushing progression in the first DF patch, how are you not, applying the same logic, forced to push M+ up to +20s, then doing 8 +20s a week, then farming the +10 16s to improve your gear and thus increasing your chance of success?

At the beginning of the season doing +20s for a heroic raiding guild would also have been incredibly difficult. Yet many heroic raiders felt ´´forced´´ to do M+ to gear their characters.

To me it just all seems insane, and it reminds me of when Blizzard announced that daily quests during Dragonflight would no longer appear on a daily basis... because some people would feel... uh... pressured to do the dailies on a daily basis?

Seems to me like WoW is currently designed for people who are either in the top 1 % or wanna play the game as little as possible. Looking at current WoW viewership metrics and the Taliesin video, I think we can safely say it is not working out great for Blizzard.

I think we can assume that the raid numbers for 10.1 are going to be some of the worst in WoWs history. Sadly, given how the community has dealt with the failure of DF numbers so far, it looks like the blame will lie with Breath of the Wild 2, Diablo 4 or Shadowlands. Instead of just accepting that whilst there definitely are people who genuinely love Dragonflight, they make up a vocal minority, and listening to them has been a catastrophic mistake. Blizzard should listen to people who loved their successful expansions, like Legion. Not the people who loved their subscriber-bleeding failure expansions like Pandaria.

One additional positive of Titanforging

One final positive thing I will say about titanforging is loot actually dropped WHILST you were playing the game. Imagine playing Diablo 2 as a kid, grinding out Mephisto, then having to wait every week to log in on a Tuesday to see if you would get an actual upgrade in some weekly chest. Having loot upgrades actually drop WHILST doing the raid, or WHILST spamming M+ feels infinitely better than some awful chest you loot all alone. Sadly, for the sake of ´´fairness´´ ´´competitive integrity´´ we have to make due with this abomination of the great vault, which makes loot and rewards feel completely detached from the extremely difficult content of +20s and Mythic raiding. Thus providing a dissatisfactory experience for many and leading to burnout and quitting.

Some might accuse me of going off topic, but no, the new currency is basically just a (significantly) worse version of titanforging, and I think that should be obvious to all.

[Aucald]

While the in-game incarnation of the new currency system is much more streamlined and easy to use than it appeared on paper, so to speak; I still don't quite understand the necessity of it. If you want a tiered currency system for acquiring/upgrading gear, why not just the easy-to-understand and tried-and-true Justice/Valor system instead of having Flightstones and a number of different tier Crests we keep as actual items? I'd also prefer they keep this stuff to the Currency tab of my character as opposed to making it items I have to carry around with me - juggling both an in-game currency and a currency in the form of inventory items just seems pointlessly cumbersome. Put it all in one place for easy tracking.

[Hyrja]

All they had to do was expand valor to all gear sources and it would have been fine lol

[huth]

this hasn't been true of wow, pretty much ever. off the top of my head, in game systems that you had to go to a third party site to figure out: weapon skill, pushing crits off the combat table, hit caps, crit soft caps, haste soft caps, glancing blows, parry haste, crushing blows...there's probably plenty more about the combat system that I have either forgotten or never bothered to look up in the first place

Not like you even need a third party site for this. Put your item in the upgrade vendor, pick your target upgrade level and it will show what you need and what you're missing.

What exactly about this system is so complicated people don't grasp it? This is hardly even different from how it worked before.

- - - Updated - - -

While the in-game incarnation of the new currency system is much more streamlined and easy to use than it appeared on paper, so to speak; I still don't quite understand the necessity of it. If you want a tiered currency system for acquiring/upgrading gear, why not just the easy-to-understand and tried-and-true Justice/Valor system instead of having Flightstones and a number of different tier Crests we keep as actual items? I'd also prefer they keep this stuff to the Currency tab of my character as opposed to making it items I have to carry around with me - juggling both an in-game currency and a currency in the form of inventory items just seems pointlessly cumbersome. Put it all in one place for easy tracking.

Because they wanted more than two tiers and they wanted it to work for both crafting and drop gear. The former necessitates more than two currencies, the later that they be inventory items not currencies.

[exochaft]

All they had to do was expand valor to all gear sources and it would have been fine lol

This is one of the reasons why I've had diminishing faith in Blizz over time, as they've either forgotten or ignored the lessons they learned in the past. Maybe it's a case that they're too close to the development of the game that it causes blindness? Although that's just me being generous at this point considering what's lead up to DF. The unfortunate reality is that Blizz has a really bad tendency to throw away a system rather than iterate upon it over time to get it right, resulting in going back to square one or repeating the same problems when they potentially had a solution the entire time.

As some people have been mentioning, the Justice/Valor points system could supplant most currency issues, or at least funnel them into a universal currency whose source gets updated every patch. Doesn't have to replace everything, but we also don't necessarily need a WotLK levels of currency. There's other ways to do it, maybe akin to the pickpocketing currency system that rogues had in Legion where you can still get individual unique items but it all gets funneled into the same currency source (it just skips a step automatically). Regardless, Blizz openly has stated that having tons and tons of different currencies and upgrade items is a bad thing, but they tend to repeat the same thing that they admit is bad.

When it comes to TF, I submit that the first iteration back in MoP was the best version: you could get random ilvl upgrades within your content, but it didn't exceed the next difficulty's ilvl (so it didn't invalidate rewards for doing more difficult content). Just add in a deterministic system that would allow you to upgrade your gear in a similar manner to the TF system, boom, you're done. Ironically... this was in the game at some point, but they tossed it out because they let the TF system spiral way out of control, having an obsession with making everything RNG layered on RNG versus having a long-term deterministic approach in case you got bad luck. Further irony is that towards the end of some expansions, Blizz even realized this issue and added in deterministic systems that were pretty much universally liked (like the legendary vendor in Legion, the Azerite vendor in BfA, etc.), only to reset and forget that lesson once the next expansion came around.

This has been my overarching issue leading up to DF: despite all the surface level changes Blizz has made, they really haven't changed that much at all on a fundamental level. The easiest way to see such an issue is that they constantly repeat the same mistakes over and over, whether willingly or unwillingly.

[Deadite]

Yeah how hard it is to understand? Stone via rarity of the item and epic gear requires epic stone to upgrade. And all of them use the abundant flightstones.

If this is too complex dont touch Path of exiles.

Think the main gripe is that why did they have to add 10 more doodads people have to carry about.All the crafting shit,fish,meats,bones.jaws,multiple levels of all cloth/ore/herbs ect ect. It is hilarious you can only get a 34 slot reagent bag with all this shit they have added. Double that and then we can talk about the hundred slot one they will need to add in the in the next patch where we will no doubt get another 20 doodads to collect.

[pahbi]

Eh, this is a bit dishonest because, for example """Emblems""" was in actuality:
-Emblem of Heroism
-Emblem of Conquest
-Emblem of Triumph
-Emblem of Valor
-Emblem of Frost
It's a bit silly to try and treat these as "a currency", when arguing about having unnecessary different currency.

You are also missing honor points, marks of honor from each individual BG (and WG) and Arena points(?), and in addition to Champion's Seals, there's also the second currency for Argent tourney stuff, Champion's writ.

How about we just compile all of that into a single currency called, 'You did stuff, go buy something' or YDSGBS for short.

That would suit me just fine.

[Alvito]

Flight stones, whelp stones, this stone that stone, combine 10 of those, 3 of these, smash that, do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around...

For FUCKs sake just 1 currency would have sufficed.

Wow has been lousy with this for years. It is certainly at a tipping point now with the rapid release of the 2 newest zones. Both having piles of crap to sort through instantly eating up a full bag on it's own. Having the multiple ranks of crafting materials is insanely frustrating as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Think the main gripe is that why did they have to add 10 more doodads people have to carry about.All the crafting shit,fish,meats,bones.jaws,multiple levels of all cloth/ore/herbs ect ect. It is hilarious you can only get a 34 slot reagent bag with all this shit they have added. Double that and then we can talk about the hundred slot one they will need to add in the in the next patch where we will no doubt get another 20 doodads to collect.

The items you need to buy the rep unlocked faction items like the jawbones and tufts of fur is annoying, the real pisser is the huge swath of soulbound items they keep adding.

[Lordofbelbol]

It is wild to me that people still have not figured out that the new system is basically just deterministic titanforging.

Blizzard knows titanforging works and is a good system (although hated by a vocal part of the community).

Titanforging fixes many issues

1) Fixes heroic raiding gear being useless
2) Helps making casual gear from stuff like WQs useful, or at least not entire pointless
3) Smart way to let players outgear content eventually (although some sad elitist streamers who don´t play the game anymore will claim that this is a made up lie by Blizzard)


Would just bringing back Titanforging be better? Yes, of course, for the vast majority of the playerbase it would. There is no confusion, no system you have to learn. You can not even make mistakes by spending your tokens poorly. You literally just play the game and get loot.

Sadly, the top 1 % and the vocal RnG ´haters´have complained so much about titanforging that Blizzard can never bring it back because it would seem like they do not listen to the community. So we have to make due with this abomination of deterministic token titanforging system.

The Rng ´haters´ are of course the most silly people in WoW, because they do not understand that Blizzard games like WC3, D2 and WoW have always built their entire success on RnG, but here we are, with a needlessly complicated system to please a bunch of people who think they are too good for RnG even they spend so much of their free time playing a computer GAME.

I at least get why the top 1 % hate titanforging. They want to ´´finish´´ their characters, and only people who are in the top 1 % ever clear Mythic raiding to finish their characters. Of course not having titanforging just so the top 1 % players can feel done every season is insanity, but these people will concern troll and make up a bunch of reasons why titanforging and RnG is akhtually terrible for casuals (the top 1 % rly care about casuals, trust me).

I couldn't agree more
this 100%

- - - Updated - - -

What? What? Can you please translate this into something not sounding like some weird conspiracy? And preferably without using: Fomo, gatekeeping, casuals deserve the same loot as mythic.

he is 100% referring to casuals deserve same loot as mythic

[Oneirophobia]

How about we just compile all of that into a single currency called, 'You did stuff, go buy something' or YDSGBS for short.

That would suit me just fine.

What I'm understanding from this is that you wanted them to go further with the currency pruning. That I can get behind, but I do think the flightstones and 3 "dragon" tokens are a good start from all the dust, valor points, etc.
Ultimately I would have liked if the flightstone/dragon token stuff replaced honor and conquest as well.

[Aucald]

Because they wanted more than two tiers and they wanted it to work for both crafting and drop gear. The former necessitates more than two currencies, the later that they be inventory items not currencies.

I'd say just make the crafting "power" reagents purchasable from a crafting vendor for the right currencies, as opposed to making people lug around excess crests in their inventories. Crafting items and upgrade currencies shouldn't intermingle in the way they do in 10.1, basically put.

[Orby]

Eh, this is a bit dishonest because, for example """Emblems""" was in actuality:
-Emblem of Heroism
-Emblem of Conquest
-Emblem of Triumph
-Emblem of Valor
-Emblem of Frost
It's a bit silly to try and treat these as "a currency", when arguing about having unnecessary different currency.

You are also missing honor points, marks of honor from each individual BG (and WG) and Arena points(?), and in addition to Champion's Seals, there's also the second currency for Argent tourney stuff, Champion's writ.

Not sure if I misremember but all of those emblems were not around at all the same, didn't conquest replace heroism, and similar with other emblems. That's why I put them all together. Plus they were added over time. emblem of Frost was added in the last raid to buy gear. Plus those emblems were very easy to obtain it was just do raid get emblems buy gear. I kind of liked that old system personally, it was simple.

[Elbob]

he is 100% referring to casuals deserve same loot as mythic

Casuals can get mythic level loot if they do mythic level content. Makes sense to me.

On topic - the currencies are fine. If you are confused by it just go to the upgrade vendor and see what the upgrade requires. Then go do that content.

Flightstones come from everything
Crests(types) come from content relative to the ilvl they are upgrading.
^^^^^^^^^
The short version of how the new currencies work and all that is needed to be known.

Is it more complicated then valor? Yes, but its also better then valor

[craigw]

Casuals can get mythic level loot if they do mythic level content. Makes sense to me.

On topic - the currencies are fine. If you are confused by it just go to the upgrade vendor and see what the upgrade requires. Then go do that content.

Flightstones come from everything
Crests(types) come from content relative to the ilvl they are upgrading.
^^^^^^^^^
The short version of how the new currencies work and all that is needed to be known.

Is it more complicated then valor? Yes, but its also better then valor

no one is bitchign about how they work. they are bitching from all the currencies there are. it is easy to understand how to upgrade gear. it is hard to understand why blizzard implemented 15 currencies this patch.