1. #84101
    Did trump do something this week to rile up his fans? The past few days my town has been extra af about Trump. People yelling about him out their windows at 9pm a significant amount lol.

  2. #84102
    Quote Originally Posted by Moralgy View Post
    Did trump do something this week to rile up his fans? The past few days my town has been extra af about Trump. People yelling about him out their windows at 9pm a significant amount lol.
    Uh...check Q boards?

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/08/p...ers/index.html

    Lawyers representing David Shafer, the embattled chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, are arguing their client should not be charged with any crimes for his actions following the 2020 election because he was following advice provided by attorneys working for former President Donald Trump, according to a letter sent to Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis last week.

    Specifically, Shafer’s attorneys say their client was relying on “repeated and detailed advice of legal counsel” when he organized a group of “contingent” electors from Georgia and served as one himself, thus “eliminating any possibility of criminal intent or liability,” according to a copy of the May 5 letter.

    The letter, which was first reported by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, comes as Willis and her team of prosecutors investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia are planning to make an announcement on possible charges against Trump or his allies later this summer.

    Shafer, who sources previously told CNN could be among those indicted when Willis makes her charging announcements, has come under scrutiny for his role in the effort to put forward alternate slates of electors to block the certification of the 2020 presidential vote.

    In their letter to Willis’s office, Shafer’s lawyers say he was “given very direct, detailed legal advice on the procedure he should follow, and he followed those instructions to the letter.

    “I believe that any fair-minded person, with possession of all the facts, would conclude that Mr. Shafer and the other presidential elector nominees acted lawfully and appropriately,” the letter adds.

    The district attorney’s office declined to comment.
    Oh boy the, "I was just following orders." is always the best defense. You know this because it's the defense a bunch of Nazi concentration camp guards used, which means it's really good!

  3. #84103
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "I was just following orders."
    No they weren't.

    Someone else's lawyer is not giving you advice. They are acting you to help their client.

    Look, this is fucking stupid. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. This isn't entrapment, this is someone telling them to break the law and them doing it. I think they just admitted conspiracy. Just, you know, not under oath.

    Also, aren't the lawyers they said they listened to targets of the same investigation? What sense does this make? "What we did was not a crime, because the people we conspired with to commit the crime told us to do it".

    So, here's what needs to happen. And @cubby please check my math because I'm so furious right now.
    1) They need to say this under oath. Not "a letter sent to court". The actual defendants need to say this, before it is entertained in any way. We've already had enough "Trump's lawyers lied for him" going on that the judges should demand this.
    2) If they confirm this letter, then guess what, the lawyers get dragged in immediately. Because these lawyers were working for Trump, therefore, they weren't working for Shafer, therefore, nothing they said to each other is privileged.
    2a) Also fraud-crime so who cares.
    3) Then, when the two sides inevitably turn on each other, lock them in jail cells and read from law textbooks about how criminal liability does not go away just because someone asked you nicely to commit the crime.

    You do not get to commit treason, to attempt to overthrow a country and install a dictator, because the dictator asked you nicely. You get 15 to 25 years for that shit, and you count your lucky stars it's not a real dictatorship, where the second-to-last thing you'd hear is "hey, think his head will bigly explode when the rope goes taut?"

    There is a reason you get your own lawyer. This isn't the best example, most people aren't traitors, but it should be framed and mounted on every law school wall from here to the Bahamas.

    And, yes, like you suggested: even if "we were only following orders" is 100% contradicted by their own fucking stupid-ass narrative, it's admission that you know what you did was wrong, and you'd really like to not be held accountable for your actions. Let them testify against Powell, Giuliani, et al. Let them testify against Trump. Maybe then give them a...

    (sigh)

    It took me this long to figure out that's where those immunity deals went. Fuck, I'm angry. I am so fucking angry.

    Every single one of these people needs to be lined up and mug shot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Judge restricts what Trump can say about the 34 felonies he's indicted for.

    good cause exists for il order to restrict, defer, and make such other order as is appropriate with respect to disclosure and inspection of discoverable materials and informadon, pursuant to Section 245.70 of the Criminal Procedure Law, it is hereby:
    This is followed by four pages of things Trump is not allowed to do. Here's an example:

    ORDERED that any person who receives the Covered Materials shall not copy, disseminate, or disclose the Covered Materials, in any form or by any means, to any thitd party (except to those employed by counsel to assist in the defense of the above-captioned criminal proceeding) including, but not lirnited to, by disseminating ot posting the Covered Materials to any news or social media platforms, including, but not limited, to Truth Social, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, or YouTube, without priot approval from the Court;
    If Trump were to, say, call out the names of any of the DA's office on the case, he breaks the court order. This could result in an immediate all-encompassing gag order. Or, it could simply lead to Trump being in contempt, and thrown in jail.

    "Whoa whoa whoa, they can't throw Trump in jail."

    One, he's beein indicted. Yes, they can.

    Two, if it's so blatantly obvious that Trump won't be thrown in jail, let's see how long before he breaks the court order. If it really is the case that Trump cannot be tossed in jail for attacking the DA's office online, then he'll do it immediately.

    I think Trump knows, Trump could go to jail. I think he'll act accordingly.

  4. #84104
    If Trump behaves it's because he realizes that it isn't just about jail, so much as it's about his cellphone and any such communication would be completely cut off.

  5. #84105
    A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.

    What planet do these people live on? Trump is the first President since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs than he did when he took office.

  6. #84106
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastletonSnob View Post
    A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.

    What planet do these people live on? Trump is the first President since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs than he did when he took office.
    People don't believe that the effects of the Trump Tax Cuts are one of the key causes of inflation. All they know is that Biden got into office and everything went up in price. As for the jobs thing -- that's an ongoing sign of ignorance that we've discussed endless times here. Both @Breccia and @Endus have even gone so far as to show the math and how even before COVID-19, that Trump was terrible at job creation.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  7. #84107
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    People don't believe that the effects of the Trump Tax Cuts are one of the key causes of inflation. All they know is that Biden got into office and everything went up in price. As for the jobs thing -- that's an ongoing sign of ignorance that we've discussed endless times here. Both @Breccia and @Endus have even gone so far as to show the math and how even before COVID-19, that Trump was terrible at job creation.
    Even if COVID didn't happen, the US would probably have gone into a recession because of Trump's tariffs.

  8. #84108
    Quote Originally Posted by CastletonSnob View Post
    A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.

    What planet do these people live on? Trump is the first President since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs than he did when he took office.
    They would say the same for ANY Republican president over any Democrat president cause facts don't matter and they media has drilled it in their heads that Republican are better at handling the economy. THis isn't about Trump, it's about the perception of the two parties and how little reality actually affects perception.

  9. #84109
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    People don't believe that the effects of the Trump Tax Cuts are one of the key causes of inflation. All they know is that Biden got into office and everything went up in price.
    See also: 2008. W handed Obama a recession, then immediately Republicans blamed Obama for not magically fixing it.

    They somehow forgot to give him credit 2 years later when things were stablized.

  10. #84110
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    See also: 2008. W handed Obama a recession, then immediately Republicans blamed Obama for not magically fixing it.

    They somehow forgot to give him credit 2 years later when things were stablized.
    The way they avoided it was complaining that it was slow. While trying to do everything they could to kneecap him.

  11. #84111
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    Cohen asks for Trump lawsuit against him to be thrown out of court.

    Cohen pointed out that Trump only sued him after it was public he was a witness in Bragg's criminal investigation. The term for this is "threatening a witness".

    I'm still the most interested in how Trump's lawsuit alleges that
    a) Cohen is lying, and
    b) Cohen broke confidentiality

    Um...aren't those contradictory? I guess some could be a) and some could be b) but the optics are horrible.

    Trump's claim that Cohen broke confidentiality latches on hard to Trump's claim that no crime was committed. If Cohen and Trump conspired to commit a crime, the fraud/crime exception kicks in. Old news around here. So Trump is claiming there was no crime...while under criminal indictment.

    Also, Cohen plead guilty. Pretty sure you don't plead guilty in court when there's no crime.

    However, I need to quote this next part because of the punch line.

    Separate from the witness tampering claim, Cohen’s lawyers – Benjamin Brodsky and Danya Perry, the former deputy chief of the criminal division at the US attorney’s office for the southern district of New York – argued in the filing that Trump generally lacked standing.

    The complaint about breach of fiduciary duty should be dismissed, the response said, because most of the allegations were time-barred by a statute of limitations of two years starting in 2018, when Cohen published his tell-all memoir about the hush money scheme titled Disloyal.

    The claims that Cohen breached other contractual obligations should similarly fail because they did not lay out express violations of the confidentiality agreement that was itself unenforceable due to its vagueness, the response said.

    And as for Trump’s claims that Cohen engaged in unjust enrichment by revealing Trump’s confidential information – which itself is unclear because Trump simultaneously says those revelations are false
    Called it!

    Cohen’s lawyers argued they should be dismissed because Trump failed to state an actual claim.
    Ah, we've heard that before, haven't we? In fact, recently. Besides what I posted yesterday, Trump is claiming there is no crime (contextually false), then suing on the grounds of nothing.

    "Why hasn't Cohen alleged criminal witness tampering?"

    He might be waiting for this court's ruling first. It would be pretty solid evidence if his motion to dismiss, on the grounds of witness tampering, is granted, and the judge says so in the ruling.

    Naturally, Trump's lawyer had something stupid to say.

    Michael Cohen is an admitted liar, thief, perjurer and convicted felon. Michael Cohen has zero credibility, and any and all statements made by him about President Trump should be disregarded.
    Yeah, I'll keep bringing this up while Team Trump keeps saying it, because saying this is fucking stupid.

    *ahem*

    Why is Cohen convicted? Liar, perjurer about what, exactly? Because I'm pretty sure he said "I didn't do crimes for Trump" then later admitted he did.

    Also, things a Trump spokesperson says in public mean nothing. Let Trump say this on the stand. Let him take the stand and say "I committed no crime." Let him take the stand and say "Cohen lied about me."

    Until that happens, his outrage will be handwaved.

  12. #84112
    Quote Originally Posted by CastletonSnob View Post
    A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.

    What planet do these people live on? Trump is the first President since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs than he did when he took office.
    Because Trump inherited a pretty good economy and he and Republicans basically set it up for covid-enhanced failure. Biden inherited a near-recession and Democrats have kept job growth steady and not pointlessly gut federal revenues during otherwise difficult global economic times.

    The average American voter is deeply ignorant of how national and global economies work. They still believe the Republican, "It's like balancing your budget at the kitchen table." shit.

  13. #84113
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastletonSnob View Post
    A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.
    The problem isn't which planet they live on. The problem is which state they vote in. It doesn't matter how wrong they are if they vote based on these feelings.

    That said, have you seen the rest of the poll? If Trump, a "Republican", has only the barest of majorities in what's traditionally Republicans' best field, it's not great for him about the rest of the polling options.

    And it's increasingly telling that the leading candidate for the Republican Party is on trial for rape, is on trial for business fraud 34 times, is likely going to be on trial for extorting Georgia for votes, and could very well see charges against him in the 2024 election for what he did in the 2020 election. Leading Republican candidate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Speaking of "Trump raped someone", the jury was just given instructions by the judge and, you know, Trump might be right -- the judge might legit hate him.

    Probably because Trump is a criminal.

    The judge's instructions included a few things.
    1) The verdict must be unanimous. This is where the good news for Trump stops.
    2) The judge gave the jury a list of things that count as "battery" which, while not rape, would still make Trump liable.
    3) The judge reminded the jury this is a civil, not criminal, case. "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is not the threshhold, "preponderance of the evidence" is.
    3a) As a reminder, Trump offered no witnesses, no evidence, and did not testify.
    4) The Adult Survivors Act, which means the statute of limitations is basically infinite.

    I would like to add that, despite having literally no evidence to support Trump in any way, Tapioca still did closing arguments and...well, at this point, he's a Trump lawyer, I don't need to tell you how they went.

    But I will.

    Tapioca brought up a TV episode of Law and Order. Specifically, he said because what happened in that fictional show was close to what Carroll said, she must be making it up.

    What is the likelihood of that? One in 20 billion? One in 10 billion?
    -- no really, he said that

    "Um...did he forget Carroll was a NYC TV writer?"

    Probably.

    "Didn't Law and Order copy real-life cases routinely? I remember they did Mel Gibson 'sugartits' once."

    Well beyond that, not only did Carroll and friends testify on the stand they talked about it after the attack but well before the 2012 episode, other women plural had also recounted on the stand Trump attacked them too, and Tapioca apparently couldn't find anything on IMDB about those attacks and conveniently forgot to bring them up in closing.

    Due to the PEMDAS and/or M:tG style order of operations, Carroll's team was able to directly shit on that defense in their own closing.

    Also, remember how Trump said Carroll wasn't his type? Interesting feature I didn't know before: Carroll was a cheerleader. And she was Miss Indiana.

    How did Trump and Melania meet, again?

    Didn't Trump used to not just hold beauty pageants, but burst into the womens' changing rooms without knocking?

    Yeah, calling Trump out on his lies is pretty easy, isn't it?

  14. #84114
    Whelp, that was quick. Not even 3 hours and the jury is done deliberating on the rape case. Their decision coming in about 10-20 minutes.

    Edit - fwiw that doesn't mean they found him guilty. I was once a juror in a civil case, and we decided very quickly that the plantiff was not going to emerge victorious from the trial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No on Rape
    Yes on Sexual Assault.
    Awarded 2 million to plantiff.

    yes on defamation
    20,000

    Lots more for damages.
    Last edited by beanman12345; 2023-05-09 at 07:17 PM.

  15. #84115
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    No on Rape
    Yes on Sexual Assault.
    Awarded 2 million to plantiff.
    That seems a curious outcome. Given all the evidence was coming to the same place, if the jury believed he sexually assaulted her why wouldn't they believe he raped her? It's the same source of info in all cases.

    Still, he's officially a sex offender now.

    EDIT: another 3 million in damages, so up to 5 million now.
    Last edited by Drutt; 2023-05-09 at 07:19 PM.

  16. #84116
    Donald John Trump, former Republican President of the United States of America. Convicted sexual predator.

    Does this mean he needs to register on a list or something?

    How perfectly on brand for Republicans. It's almost like literally every liberal that's been calling him a sexual assaulter since his 2015 campaign has been right all along. How shocking and unexpected.

    Incoming fundraising emails for his base to subsidize the $5M in damages he apparently needs to pay. I hope Carroll has endless mimosa's for the rest of her life, or whatever her drink of choice is.

  17. #84117
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    That seems a curious outcome. Given all the evidence was coming to the same place, if the jury believed he sexually assaulted her why wouldn't they believe he raped her? It's the same source of info in all cases.

    Still, he's officially a sex offender now.
    Maybe too difficult to prove actual intercourse, he refused to provide his DNA, but the result is about the same regardless I suppose. One of the jurists listens to Tim Pool apparently, so it's all a but surprising, cause they deliberated very fast.

  18. #84118
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Maybe too difficult to prove actual intercourse, he refused to provide his DNA, but the result is about the same regardless I suppose. One of the jurists listens to Tim Pool apparently, so it's all a but surprising, cause they deliberated very fast.
    No more difficult than proving sexual assault in this case, though, which was proven. It's all based off testimony of something that happened a long while ago.

    I'm wondering if it was some kind of compromise deal by the jury, because you have to assume at least one of them was a Trump Humper and it needed to be unanimous.

  19. #84119
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Convicted sexual predator.
    civil suit tho innit. Hes still a fucking wrong un

  20. #84120
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    civil suit tho innit. Hes still a fucking wrong un
    Convicted sexual predator. It may not be a criminal offense, but he was found guilty of sexual assault by a jury of his peers (lol). I have zero qualms referring to him as a convicted sexual predator for the rest of my life and will do so gladly.

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