WoW is now a lobby-based dungeon crawler

[WowIsDead64]

You can still do the old content you like if it does not turn well for you and it might be better/faster idk

I can not understand how wasting 30 bucks on something you might enjoy a disaster ? and even if it ended up being a waste so what ? you will not be the first person to waste couple of bucks on a video game they did not like, certainly doesn't constitutes a disaster

Games would never become better, if all players would "waste" money on them.

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Like always, I think "FOMO" is a User Problem. Its fine to not have "Everything". Especially with that kind of Content.

If FOMO is encouraged by game mechanics, then it will inevitably happen. Trying to avoid it is like swimming against stream. Saying "Don't give in to FOMO" in this case is the same, as saying "Don't shoot people in shooter game".

[MrLachyG]

Buying xpack just to have 70lvl? I'd better get it for free with release of next one. And if 45lvl Argus scales to 63lvl, why wouldn't it scale even further?

For now I have things to do. I had to delete several characters to change their races, because Blizzard still haven't admitted, that it's their mistake and haven't provided any compensation for it. Now I need to restore their progress. By the time, when I'll complete this task - 10.2 will most likely be released and there is some chance, that it will fix some problems. If not - I still hope, that we'll have some new race-class combos in future patches. More work to do.

um... what on Argus scales to level 63? I was just there and am curious as to what you're talking about.

[WowIsDead64]

um... what on Argus scales to level 63? I was just there and am curious as to what you're talking about.

And I can't kill mobs in Odyn raid for quest, because they are also made non-soloable. And "Complete invasion" quest from Broken Shore is also non-soloable, as last boss requires queuing with group to be killed.

[crusadernero]

There is no world content worth a damn.

People just log into Valdrakken, queue up for M+, or raids, or arena/bgs, and then log out.

World quests? Why? The rewards are laughable.
New areas? Why? They're just catchup zones for alts and new players.
Seasonal events? Why? Who the fuck cares?
Pet battles? Why? Who the fuck cares?
Transmogs? Ok...for like 20 min it takes to run an old raid.
World treasures? Why? Who the fuck cares?

At this point, if Blizzard gets rid of the open world and just makes Stormwind and Orgrimmar just large player hubs with nothing beyond them, and just a place for people to socialize while waiting for queues, it would have very little impact on the game's content.

MMORPG my ass!!!!


Add world pvp events and/or world pvp large areas where pvp flagging is forced, with pvp quests and events.
Add housing and make players chase house improvements such as racially theme furniture, trophies, etc.

wow has always been about doungeons, raids and to a lesser degree pvp. Always.

Theres more to do in retail wow today than there is in classic. One could even argue theres to much going on in retail, but thats besides the point. Classic wow was level up-->dungeons-->raid-->pvp all accordingly on what you wanted to do. Classic wow didnt have lots of world stuff going on bar a few events.

Yet, the classic world do feel more purposeful and rewarding. Go figure that one out.

[Stickiler]

And I can't kill mobs in Odyn raid for quest, because they are also made non-soloable. And "Complete invasion" quest from Broken Shore is also non-soloable, as last boss requires queuing with group to be killed.

Why are you blacking out the name of the mob?

[Xaviaton]

While I agree with you that if you like in Classic actually need to read where you need to go, and it takes time to get there, people may actually read the Questlines. I dont think its good Game design to basically force people to interact with the world.
They should do it because they want to.

I like it right now, I can take my time and Invest myself in what Happens, read the QuestLogs, Dialogues, watch Cutscenes and all that stuff, and on the Next Char I can just skip all that.

Like always, I think "FOMO" is a User Problem. Its fine to not have "Everything". Especially with that kind of Content.

I think blaming FOMO entirely on the user is a bit unfair though. In Dragonflight, I would say FOMO is a user problem since nothing actually happens if you miss out on something (arguably, other than weekly lockouts) but in the AP/Thorgast Ash/Mission Table quest era you most certainly did miss out by not playing the game daily, and you had to catch up to take part in most forms of organised group content.

To an extent I also think "forcing" people to engage with the game is a bit of a mislabeling of the activity. I think there are many fun game activities that cannot really be sold in any other way than by doing them. An example for me; The Mage Tower did NOT sound like an activity I enjoy since I generally steer away from content where I end up failing multiple times before succeeding, but since I wanted those damn artifact skins I was "forced" into playing it, and I had a great time! I think a lot of people over the years have been "forced" or coerced/tricked into reading only to realise they actually enjoy it. I think that if a game is to remain fresh for several decades like WoW, it cannot only provide activities that they know the players will want to do, they have to introduce some new things (or better, copy from other games so they know at least some other gamers than WoW players enjoyed them). They unfortunately cannot get a good idea of whether the players enjoy the content or not if they don't force, or coerce, the players to actually do it since, as Ion has stated in many interviews, WoW players are insanely reward oriented.

To follow up on your alt point though - yeah, I loved attunements in Classic and Classic TBC but I would not attune more than 2 characters to the raids if you paid me - alt skip options I think are great in any version of the game.

[WowIsDead64]

I think blaming FOMO entirely on the user is a bit unfair though. In Dragonflight, I would say FOMO is a user problem since nothing actually happens if you miss out on something (arguably, other than weekly lockouts) but in the AP/Thorgast Ash/Mission Table quest era you most certainly did miss out by not playing the game daily, and you had to catch up to take part in most forms of organised group content.

Any "gating" and "limited time offer" mechanics cause FOMO. Worst case scenario - when RNG is also involved. I don't try to say, that they should be removed from game. May be some players like them. But casual content shouldn't involve them.

To an extent I also think "forcing" people to engage with the game is a bit of a mislabeling of the activity. I think there are many fun game activities that cannot really be sold in any other way than by doing them. An example for me; The Mage Tower did NOT sound like an activity I enjoy since I generally steer away from content where I end up failing multiple times before succeeding, but since I wanted those damn artifact skins I was "forced" into playing it, and I had a great time! I think a lot of people over the years have been "forced" or coerced/tricked into reading only to realise they actually enjoy it. I think that if a game is to remain fresh for several decades like WoW, it cannot only provide activities that they know the players will want to do, they have to introduce some new things (or better, copy from other games so they know at least some other gamers than WoW players enjoyed them). They unfortunately cannot get a good idea of whether the players enjoy the content or not if they don't force, or coerce, the players to actually do it since, as Ion has stated in many interviews, WoW players are insanely reward oriented.

I still don't think, that it's right approach. It's some sort of "hit or miss" strategy, that has too high chance of failing. Just because there is X% chance, that player would need provided reward, and Y% chance, that player would like such content, so chance for this content to succeed - is X * Y, that is always lower, than X or Y alone.

[kamuimac]

Which are the activities they want to do. Who are you to tell them of how to enjoy the game?


Where in MMORPG are the letters for "open world content" or something comparable? From my perspective that definition don't tell you of how to play the game. It only says that you play with other people online a game where you control an avatar.

there is plenty of "world content" this patch . you have cave with rares and events , you have world boss , you have weekly event in cave , you have weekly fyrak event in world , t

the problem that people have with it is that all the gear from this is "soft capped" at 424 after heavy farm of crests and currency .

which in my opinion is ok . tried m+ last night on my fresh pala alt - got it to 386 itlv over last week of cave farm +this weeks event WB in cave , then had no problem tanking 2-4 in 386 itlv (this rewards 402-405 itlv) - then had no problem to tank Brackenhide cancer dungeon on +7 in 396 itlv (thx god for dispels on pala :P i dread to do this on my DH tank with healers who dont dispel ) .

424 itlv from WQ will be perfect itlv for anyone who decides to push for KSM / AOTC at some point of this season .

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Any "gating" and "limited time offer" mechanics cause FOMO. Worst case scenario - when RNG is also involved. I don't try to say, that they should be removed from game. May be some players like them. But casual content shouldn't involve them.

I still don't think, that it's right approach. It's some sort of "hit or miss" strategy, that has too high chance of failing. Just because there is X% chance, that player would need provided reward, and Y% chance, that player would like such content, so chance for this content to succeed - is X * Y, that is always lower, than X or Y alone.

that gating only is visible if you play unhealthy amount of hours. then indeed those "soft caps " kick in .

right now you can spam m+ 24/7 and get to 447 in a week if you are good enough to do 17s ? . removal of score tresholds are amazing too - you can finaly instantly spend all what you farmed and then farm some more making you more powerfull with every single run

this also ensures that GV has so much less impact on your gameplay .

honestly i dont like some aspects of crest systems because they are dtrimental to game but if you are good player who can invest time into game ? this is a godsend and so much better then VP

same way you can spam hard world content and get to 424 in like 2-3 weeks tops by doing mindless farms .

fomo only exists if you chase those 1-2 "supposedly coolest" mounts or transmogs from mythci raids and m+20 / gladiator in pvp .

and with literaly hundreds of other mounts and thousands of other transmogs you can live without it when you stop behaving like addict.

[MrLachyG]

And I can't kill mobs in Odyn raid for quest, because they are also made non-soloable. And "Complete invasion" quest from Broken Shore is also non-soloable, as last boss requires queuing with group to be killed.

ok when you're ready to provide a screenshot with the name of the mob unobscured, then I will take you seriously

as for the others, looks like you'll have to *gasp* make a friend. or just not do it til level 70 where the damage reduction means nothing because it's legacy content

[chiddie]

Dudes the OP is asking for meaningful POWER progression in open world (aka mythic level gear in open world).

No point in telling him about pets and transmogs, it’s not the focus of his post.

[Stickiler]

ok when you're ready to provide a screenshot with the name of the mob unobscured, then I will take you seriously

as for the others, looks like you'll have to *gasp* make a friend. or just not do it til level 70 where the damage reduction means nothing because it's legacy content

He'll probably never post one, but I'd nearly put money that it's one of the boss-level ones that you're not supposed to kill.

[Weeps]

I used to be angry at the game but have since matured.

Best thing to do is walk away. Take a break. Go touch some grass. Pound some sand. Have a great ol time.

[WowIsDead64]

He'll probably never post one, but I'd nearly put money that it's one of the boss-level ones that you're not supposed to kill.

Why I'm not supposed to kill them? It's 45lvl content. Bosses should be 48lvl there. Plus it's just invasion. Why some invasions can be completed and some can't? This is so inconsistent.

This is major problem with Wow. Old content should be provided as is - not broken by terrible scaling. For example WOD's endgame is dead exactly because broken scaling has made rares non-soloable there.

For now it feels like Blizzard intentionally break old content in order to force all players into current one, instead of doing, what many players ask them to do - to keep years of old content alive.

[Soon-TM]

Would you have enjoyed 10.1's initial questline more if you had to go pick up Sabellian from Blade's Edge Mountain, Wrathion from the Tavern in the Mists, and Ebonhorn from Thunder Totem before you could go to Zaralek?

It would have been a step in the right direction as far as I am concerned. With a few exceptions, such as the Shadowlands, there should be a bit more travel across the entire world, not just zooming past everything in the dragon isles. If done sparingly and with a good reason (lore wise) for it, it can really help with world building, especially when it was imo one of the weakest points of SL and still is now in DF.

On a more general level, I'm still wondering why has Blizzard been dedicating so much manpower to build expansive and beautiful outdoor zones, when they are pretty much left to rot shortly after the expansion has launched. And that isn't a recent development, it has been happening since WotLK (an insanely overrated xpac in my book), with a few exceptions like Legion or BfA - which had their own host of issues.

Since Ion, like most of his predecessors, takes open world content as a mere afterthought (and that's being generous), with the priority given to those nifty raids and dungeons, perhaps they should be more honest and turn the game into an actual, full fledged lobby-based game ala Dota 2 or CoD. They would save a lot of money while remaining entirely faithful to their hardcore fans.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Why I'm not supposed to kill them? It's 45lvl content. Bosses should be 48lvl there. Plus it's just invasion. Why some invasions can be completed and some can't? This is so inconsistent.

This is major problem with Wow. Old content should be provided as is - not broken by terrible scaling. For example WOD's endgame is dead exactly because broken scaling has made rares non-soloable there.

For now it feels like Blizzard intentionally break old content in order to force all players into current one, instead of doing, what many players ask them to do - to keep years of old content alive.

Feels more like a massive game with limited resources, and spending them on content nobody does isn't worth it.

Not defending random old bugs or anything, but it's understandable why it isn't a priority.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why I'm not supposed to kill them? It's 45lvl content. Bosses should be 48lvl there. Plus it's just invasion. Why some invasions can be completed and some can't? This is so inconsistent.

This is major problem with Wow. Old content should be provided as is - not broken by terrible scaling. For example WOD's endgame is dead exactly because broken scaling has made rares non-soloable there.

For now it feels like Blizzard intentionally break old content in order to force all players into current one, instead of doing, what many players ask them to do - to keep years of old content alive.

You can easily solo all of Wod including world bosses, just not at lvl 60 as since chromie time it scales to 60 where it would be group content.

Buy the expan, lvl to 70, solo every thing with ease as is the intended way to play.

[Gimlix]

Yeah this guy is talking rubbish. Plenty of content to do, i agree alot needs updating and needs a proper reward but alot of people still do alot more then OP described.
I've been farming WQ, Achievements, treasures anything daily since launch and i love it.

Dragonflight shows how it can be done and i'm happy to see how much they improve each patch and how good the expansion has been so far.
Hope has returned with this expansion, best since MoP.

[WowIsDead64]

You can easily solo all of Wod including world bosses, just not at lvl 60 as since chromie time it scales to 60 where it would be group content.

Buy the expan, lvl to 70, solo every thing with ease as is the intended way to play.

You insist on buying DF too much.

[Glorious Leader]

Feels more like a massive game with limited resources, and spending them on content nobody does isn't worth it.

Thats arbitrary. I could say the same about raiding.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You insist on buying DF too much.

Just pointing out that it would solve all of your problems without you even having to go to the new content you think might have wonky scaling.