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  1. #21
    I believe it needs only two things:

    First, dual spec. Having the opportunity of switching specs freely would add many, many more healers and tanks to the game, since having to level with them is a pain. Not to mention, it can basically double your playtime in one character, by making the gearing process much more longer.

    Second, summoning stones like in SoM. Having to wait for people to walk to the dungeon all the time is just an annoyance that does nothing for the game. Yes, Warlocks lose a little bit of their charm, but they were still present in SoM and nobody complained.

    That's about it. The rest of Classic is perfection.
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  2. #22
    Just a personal opinion but i think that Classic+ in itself is not a great idea.

    Classic is overall a finished game, adding new stuff is largely just going to replace the actual Classic content to a point where you quickly end in a spot where you essentially play a game that is no longer Classic because any content in there is newly created and the progression ladder is that far stretched that no one that isn't in the loop can reasonably catch up.

    Above any new content hangs the big question of rewards, if there aren't any good rewards, people aren't going to bother with it.
    WoW is a very progression driven game, even something such as Hardcore still retains progression elements even if the current ruleset is extremely restrictive.
    I bet that a Ironman challenge that involves wearing no gear at would be far less popular because it kills the entire progression aspect of WoW.

    In my view, the best way to go forward would be a seasonal model puts a new spin on things, improves existing elements and adds stuff that was clearly left out in original WoW.

    For that, i would say:
    1. Class changes
    I'm not going to bother with the endgame unless balance gets a review.

    2. rebalance quest rewards
    Long ass questchains (you know, what Classic leveling is famous for) should have proper rewards, if some questchain sends me on some world tour, killing elites and whatnot and all i get is a Spirit / Stamina Necklace, i'm not going to bother with those chains.

    3. rebalance professions
    Reduce mats required to level a profession, especially something like Blacksmithing is almost impossible to keep up during leveling without taking massive breaks to just farming ore.
    Add some Caster Items to Leatherworking & Blacksmithing so Shaman, Druids and Pallies have more options.

    4. rebalance itemization
    Make the terrible items less bad, keep the good ones as they are.
    I'm fine with crossdressing to a certain extent, but the level of Classic (especially on healers) is far too extreme, if you wanna be fancy, keep some Strength / Agi on some pieces itemized towards Ele, Resto Shaman or Pala but buff their relevant stats enough so they aren't that terrible.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    my Sibling in whatever religious figure you believe in...
    That doesn't say anything about horizontal progression. Just because I used the word "horizontal" doesn't mean I said anything about progression.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielKnight View Post
    I believe it needs only two things:

    First, dual spec. Having the opportunity of switching specs freely would add many, many more healers and tanks to the game, since having to level with them is a pain. Not to mention, it can basically double your playtime in one character, by making the gearing process much more longer.

    Second, summoning stones like in SoM. Having to wait for people to walk to the dungeon all the time is just an annoyance that does nothing for the game. Yes, Warlocks lose a little bit of their charm, but they were still present in SoM and nobody complained.

    That's about it. The rest of Classic is perfection.
    That's not classic+. That's classic with a couple of convenience features.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  4. #24
    1 - Dual spec
    2 - dungeon finder(doesnt need teleport, but does need the auto matching system so alts and old dungeons are still doable)
    3 - world buffs holding through death
    4 - make black lotus spawns far more frequent and are more abundant
    5 - honor grind changed to something other than needing to degen grind honor for like 3 months straight

  5. #25
    More stuff.

    Can't do more concise.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Moralgy View Post
    ...
    3 - world buffs holding through death
    ...
    I find this one interesting, going slightly too far imo. I was thinking the other day why world buffs like Onyxia/Rend were dispellable and figured that they shouldn't be as they are warcries not magic, even if I don't mind either way it feels it should. Then recalling how I felt about them before hunting buffs, I would say why not make them undispellable but also count down even when logged. This way they can be used, pose less danger to simple dispellers, it becomes a race for time yet still lost upon death, and always count down so logging for raiding isn't an option.
    Or to follow my own request of conciseness and formatting...

    - World buffs like Onyxia/Rend should be undispellable, but count down even when logged.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosRanger View Post
    I find this one interesting, going slightly too far imo. I was thinking the other day why world buffs like Onyxia/Rend were dispellable and figured that they shouldn't be as they are warcries not magic, even if I don't mind either way it feels it should. Then recalling how I felt about them before hunting buffs, I would say why not make them undispellable but also count down even when logged. This way they can be used, pose less danger to simple dispellers, it becomes a race for time yet still lost upon death, and always count down so logging for raiding isn't an option.
    Or to follow my own request of conciseness and formatting...

    - World buffs like Onyxia/Rend should be undispellable, but count down even when logged.
    The only real fun of classic raiding was getting pretty numbers, no reason to, if we are gonna try to make a "classic+", leave the function of your entire raid week of fun is over if you died five seconds into the night. It would just be more fun all around personally.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    We definitely do not all want that.

    Remember #nochanges? There's an entire horde (no capital H) of Classic people who'd be foaming at the mouth if you started to mess with what they think was perfection.

    But the point is moot anyway, because it'll never happen.
    Well yeah sure you are right, but we have classic era now so those people are happy. I think that those that dont want changes are very afraid what Blizzard would deliver as classic+ content. It probably would NOT be what they imagined. So rather keep the old.

  9. #29
    Honestly, I remember the times when Vanilla was the best game to play and it felt exactly like that. Now, when you come back to this game (thanks to Classic reborn), it feels like a stupid grind and a set of dummies instead of raid bosses. By the way, is there a thread dedicated to WoW Classic Hardcore, where you have only one life for your character? I really liked this crazy idea

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FuriousElf View Post
    Honestly, I remember the times when Vanilla was the best game to play and it felt exactly like that. Now, when you come back to this game (thanks to Classic reborn), it feels like a stupid grind and a set of dummies instead of raid bosses. By the way, is there a thread dedicated to WoW Classic Hardcore, where you have only one life for your character? I really liked this crazy idea
    Check out classichc.net it will have links to rules, discord and an addon (and some other stuff like a leaderboard). But minimum is the addon which is also on curse or curseforge.

  11. #31
    Epic! Ermelloth's Avatar
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    Btw, they could just set Era on 2.0.0 talents and add BEs and Draenei.
    Most bad specs are fixed by TBC talent trees while 60 world remains unchanged.

  12. #32
    I assume that the "+" means more content, not new gameplay. At the very basic level then you could expect the content that was originally planned for Classic but did not make it in and then was added over xpacs (or in the case of Emerald Dream, never). So think like Outland, Northrend, Uldum, Hyjal, Karazhan were all planned back then.

    If you start changing systems though, it stops being more content for Classic and it just becomes a different timeline of WoW with really bad graphics.

  13. #33
    1) Improved class balance, likely pretty close to what TBC was. Warriors, druids, and paladins viable as tanks. Paladins, druids, shamans, and priests viable as healers.

    2) I think TBC talent trees were very good, kept unique class identity, and generally played well. Regarding a lack of talent points, I could see gear set bonuses or scroll drops giving you additional points to work with as part of a horizontal progression path. This is similar to how they were doing higher ranks of spells being unlocked in vanilla.

    3) I think having Outland, Northrend, and Cataclysm areas as max level quest zones makes sense for Classic+. Rework the dungeons/raids to be tuned to 60. After Cata, I think there starts to be an identity crisis, especially once you get past MoP to the AU bits.

    4) Replace the honor grind with rated battlegrounds. I would even throw in solo queue.

    5) I don't think the new professions add much value, so I would just add more of the high level vanilla resources in these zones or some cosmetic oriented stuff.

    6) UI/UX improvements such as mounts and toys being stored in an interface.

    7) Have transmog, but only allow it inside capital cities.

    8) The overall goal is to maintain the character, playstyle, and feel of the game as close as possible to vanilla/tbc. Quality of life improvements are good.

    9) No LFG/LFR. The main character of the game is the world, and anything that minimizes the amount that the player interacts with the world is against the design goals. Portals are okay if the player unlocks them as a reward, think TBC style attunement to add a portal from Stormwind to Shattrath. Otherwise, you need to interact with a mage player to open a portal.

    10) Account wide progress for major unlocks such as dungeon/raid attunements. No account wide progress for toys/mounts, to maintain the feeling of scarcity for rare mounts that are character defining.

  14. #34
    Classic+ is a slippery slope the moment anything significant is changed or added. Personally I'd some of the improvements of future expansions like Summoning Stones, Mount/Toy/Pet Collection Tabs, TBC-era professions would be as far as I'd like to see profession wise as they just went downhill after that IMO.

    Biggest thing would be class balance and re-vamps on specs that just didn't go anywhere in classic. I would not like to see the standard expansion progression for this though - it has been done and personally I think there were more missteps made, both in spec design and balance, than not.

    Take this for an example: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...xCLWMkew9j/pub

    It only touches on Shaman/Paladin but I think it maintains their thematic appeals and reinforces their overall support role aspects while still addressing their balance and design issues that prevent them from appropriately filling roles within the realms of Tank/DPS/Healer/Hybrid that Classic tried to embody.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I assume that the "+" means more content, not new gameplay. At the very basic level then you could expect the content that was originally planned for Classic but did not make it in and then was added over xpacs (or in the case of Emerald Dream, never). So think like Outland, Northrend, Uldum, Hyjal, Karazhan were all planned back then.

    If you start changing systems though, it stops being more content for Classic and it just becomes a different timeline of WoW with really bad graphics.
    Yep, I'm in this camp too. Maybe some small tweaks here n there, but overall, for me Classic+ was just "more content after Nax, maybe more dungeons for endgame". Changing how entire game plays just makes it less Classic and more +

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    TBC class balance in vanilla content. That's about it.
    Every time I see people discussing "classic+" changes, half or more of the things they list are things TBC already fixed.
    What people mean, when they say "TBC class was balanced"? More specs could be played in raids (Retribution Paladins, Feral Druids etc)?
    Because PvP wise, my Rogue felt overpowered, compared to Vanilla. Frost Mages, Hunters, from almost impossible to win, became relatively easy targets. Warlocks and Shadow Priests also. Arenas were dominated by Druid Warrior combo.
    Did other classes became more "balanced", and in what way?

    What I miss in Classic, is world PvP actions, to have consequences. Are you a ganker? Bravo! But people will know that, and there will be some kind of bounty hunter system, to reward players for killing you. Killed many low level opponents? You are dishonourable, and people will know it.
    Also, premades (only) vs other premades. Maybe 5 man groups maximum, so friends can play together.

  17. #37
    In my opinion, talents and talent trees should remain the same, just tweak effects (like increase dmg/heal) of some talents.
    Dual spec is a MUST.
    Introduce two new 40 and 20 man raids and 1-2 new zones.
    Introduce some new items models that are consistent style-wise with the existing assets.
    New races Ogre for Alliance and Goblin for Horde.

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Ateo's Avatar
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    Dual spec, collection tabs, added items that have been datamined for years, added bgs that were cut, added raids that were cut, rated bgs. No arena, no transmog, no achievements.

  19. #39
    Classic has only one flaw. It is old, and nothing is new and exciting. I don’t know how to deal with that. Maybe WoW2, with alternative Azeroth.
    Until then, Fresh Servers have an appeal.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by FuriousElf View Post
    Honestly, I remember the times when Vanilla was the best game to play and it felt exactly like that. Now, when you come back to this game (thanks to Classic reborn), it feels like a stupid grind and a set of dummies instead of raid bosses.
    Its because classic wow was effectively social mmo-D&D. People may not have been RPing per se all the time, but it felt more immersive because people didn't understand everything and weren't hyper focused on getting the most efficient use of their time. Thats not to say there werent people who played for efficiency, but I do believe the ratio from 'efficient' to 'just having fun' was much more skewed to the later than it is today.

    While blizzard is partially to blame for this change in mindset, I'd say part of it has to do with the community as well, which is why Classic can feel so much more try-hard and grindy than it did back then. People seem to only derive fun from having the highest numbers now.

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