Diablo 4 is bad.

[kenn9530]

Bolded is all that's needed. They haven't seen the what the game has to offer yet do don't think it's worth committing $70 to right now. What's wrong with that?

Whats wrong is complaining without even seeing the actual game, too many whiney gamers throwing thier pointless opinions, and a game at release is also never going to be perfect, it takes many patches to smooth a game out properly and fine tune all thats needed.

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I've seen several people comment that it feels like D3 and I completely disagree. The movement and animations in D3 feel very fluid. This feels like Diablo Immortal. It's often very clunky to move around. My skills often targeted incorrect enemies. You get animation locked so trying to dodge enemy attacks often fails. It's mandatory to use Evade which feels very unnatural to me. It's not a system I enjoy having in games. The skill trees aren't very interesting. I feel like you unlock too many skills too quickly. Having access to Frozen Orb at level 5 feels very weird. Last beta test, everything was super easy and I stomped through with little effort. This time around, it felt much more difficult and I actually had to use defensive skills and I still struggled to survive. I agree that the game only feels ok. We'll see how end game is I guess.

Evade is a system in many ARPGs, it makes perfect sense to have an additional system you can use for defence instead of D3 where all you needed was damage reductions and health to survive anything you wanted, not a very interesting system if most of the difficulty is ignored simply because you can get so much damage reduction nothing can even harm you until 135 grifts and above. If you are in the middle of an animation you should be required to finish it before dodging.

[Biomega]

Bolded is all that's needed. They haven't seen the what the game has to offer yet do don't think it's worth committing $70 to right now. What's wrong with that?

To be clear, anyone can hate the game for any reason, and decide to not buy the game for any reason whatsoever. Game doesn't have clown noses on all characters? GAME SUCKS, WILL NOT BUY. Cool. If that's your reason, that's entirely your business.

BUUUUUUT

That doesn't mean that some reasons aren't more reasoned and more founded than others. That clown-nose example is a really bad reason; that doesn't mean you CAN'T use it as a reason for your purchasing decision (you can, and no one can stop you), but it does mean that people can point out this is not a very good reason.

Same thing applies here. You can absolutely decide not to buy the game solely based on your 1-20 experience in Act I. That's a choice that's entirely up to you. But to say you're judging the entire game by that slice of content alone isn't super reasonable, because it'll be such a small part of the overall game, and because it'll be less representative of the game as a whole. To what degree, that's negotiable; and there may be reasons unrelated to the actual 1-20 experience that may translate to the rest of the game, too. Those would be more reasonable points than "I didn't like levels 1-20" as a generalization.

[PACOX]

Whats wrong is complaining without even seeing the actual game, too many whiney gamers throwing thier pointless opinions, and a game at release is also never going to be perfect, it takes many patches to smooth a game out properly and fine tune all thats needed.

That person wasn't really complaining though, they stated the game wasn't for them in a discussion where people are taking about whether or not the game is for them.

All that person said in a bunch of words is that the game wasn't fun for them regardless of the price. There's worse negative feedback to attack.

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To be clear, anyone can hate the game for any reason, and decide to not buy the game for any reason whatsoever. Game doesn't have clown noses on all characters? GAME SUCKS, WILL NOT BUY. Cool. If that's your reason, that's entirely your business.

BUUUUUUT

That doesn't mean that some reasons aren't more reasoned and more founded than others. That clown-nose example is a really bad reason; that doesn't mean you CAN'T use it as a reason for your purchasing decision (you can, and no one can stop you), but it does mean that people can point out this is not a very good reason.

Same thing applies here. You can absolutely decide not to buy the game solely based on your 1-20 experience in Act I. That's a choice that's entirely up to you. But to say you're judging the entire game by that slice of content alone isn't super reasonable, because it'll be such a small part of the overall game, and because it'll be less representative of the game as a whole. To what degree, that's negotiable; and there may be reasons unrelated to the actual 1-20 experience that may translate to the rest of the game, too. Those would be more reasonable points than "I didn't like levels 1-20" as a generalization.

I don't disagree at all.

I think the line is someone attempting review a game vs someone saying a game isn't for them.

You can't review a game in 20 levels unless that game is only 20 levels. You can 100% decide a game isn't for you in 20 levels, even less.

[MauroDiogo]

It is strange you say that since you think Last Epoch "leads the genre". They plan to implement cosmetic-only monetization. Yet Diablo 4 is bad because it is doing cosemtic-only as well.

I have played many ARPGs, i wouldnt call last epoch or grim dawn leading the genre in the slightest.

"Played all the more well known ones and a fair few more obscure titles - With Last Epoch and then Grim Dawn currently leading the genre for me."

By leading the genre I'm just saying that for me, personally, they are my 2 favourite games within the genre. I used "leading" to say that they are ahead of all the other ARPG's on my list of favourite ARPGs.

The same monetization will be in last epoch you realise that right, there is 100% going to be cosmetics and very likely to have some sort of battlepass so dont be a hypocrite.

But they are not Blizzard so they are good and the game is great but Blizzard have bad monetization and the game sux. Don't you know how MMOChamp works?

I've always been outspoken about shitty monetization practices. I'm from a time when you'd get a full complete product with all it's content (cosmetics included), for a single price. So I've never been a fan of Microtransactions, Loot Boxes, Premium currencies, cash shops, battle passes and the likes in full priced games.

For the most part, these days I'll only buy a game when I know that it's a good product and that the monetization isn't too awful. I can turn a blind eye to a small cosmetic dlc or two in a great game with good content or when the initial price point for the game is lower than a full priced game.
Sadly, it's the standard for the industry these days. To release games with some form of monetization. So I can't run away from that entirely or I'd be missing out on some really amazing titles.

HOWEVER! When a company is selling you a game at full price (£60 for the standard edition!), adds TWO different Battle Passes to it, includes Premium Currencies, Cosmetics and Microtransactions... It's hard not to get a sour taste about it. Specially when the company already has a bad reputation for their business practices (and the reason why I don't buy any EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc games anymore).

I hate the fact that Last Epoch will have a cosmetics shops (Kenn9530 brings up Battle Passes but that's just speculative since the devs never mentioned a battle pass. Whereas a cosmetics shop was always on the cards since their Kickstarter) but they're offering a great product with a LOT of content, at a lower price point than D4, so if they leave it at just that, it doesn't feel as egregious as Battle Passes, premium currencies, cash shops and microtransactions in a £60 game that personally (emphasis on personally here) is nowhere near as good.

But this is all just my own opinion on these games and on the industry and it's business practices. They are things that I can't overlook, so I just skip certain games.
But if others are alright with those same practices and want to buy and play the games then that's completely fine. Just sharing how I felt about Diablo 4 after what I played and seeing others with the same feelings about it.

[rhorle]

By leading the genre I'm just saying that for me, personally, they are my 2 favourite games within the genre. I used "leading" to say that they are ahead of all the other ARPG's on my list of favourite ARPGs.

Right, but Last Epoch shouldn't be leading the genre for you because it will also have cosmetic only micro transactions. The same thing that you disliked about Diablo 4. So why is it acceptable for one but not the other? It also ignored how LE is an early access game that charges players to alpha and beta test. At one point they said the game would be $15 at launch with the $35 price including the game and beta access. Heck they even sold a $400 supporter pack (https://lastepoch.com/supporter-packs?orderby=price). Yet somehow Diablo 4 is way worse. Lol.

Diablo 4 doesn't have two different battle passes. They have one which has a portion that is free and a portion paid. The Premium currencies are used to buy the battle pass (and shop items) and you get some as part of the battle pass (premium track). It won't be enough to get the next one free however.

Most of the things Diablo 4 is adding is a microtransaction but you list that as a separate item. That really just shows how these things are being used as a scapegoat. Instead of saying you aren't satisfied with game play you bring out the "evil bogeyman" with a list of things that is not entirely accurate. It is even worse because you say the game play is fine because if it was cheaper you'd happily play it. It shows you can over look things and choose to arbitrarily cross that line when ever you feel like it.

[Feeline10]

This is pretty much where I'm at too. I'm a huge ARPG fan. Played all the more well known ones and a fair few more obscure titles - With Last Epoch and then Grim Dawn currently leading the genre for me.

The game just felt very basic and the new open world with it's events and bosses do not do enough to add depth or make the game any more interesting.
I too played Necromancer and Druid (in the previous Betas. I couldn't muster up the motivation to even bother with the Server Slam) and if you have a certain gameplay style in mind, you're locked into the illusion of choice because you know that if you even just try to experiment with skills outside a particular build route, you are nerfing yourself and the gameplay just don't flow at all.

Using Druid as an example - If you decide to go Werewolf, you can pretty much said goodbye to about 70% of the Druid skills because they just do not fit the playstyle at all and you're locked into a very specific skill route. There's no synergy at all with the rest of the skills.

I don't know what endgame will entail but what we were shown in the Betas felt very sluggish (Diablo 1 & 2 always felt more satisfying to go through for some reason), gameplay felt cumbersome and the game was just a chore.

Add to that the awful monetization and business practices and it's a hard pass from me.

It felt basic going to level 20 on an enormously huge AAA ARPG franchise 48 hour server test? Felt basic, did it?

..

[rhorle]

You just fixated upon that part, unless you took umbrage that he used terms in the way you don't like, in which case: okay, I guess? Weird thing to get hung up on but you do you boo.

Right. They included something that was silly and not even accurate and stuff that wasn't. Why shouldn't everyone take umbrage at people including the silly stuff? Hence why I called it strange that they included that part.

[rhorle]

Because I don't feel personally slighted by how people are attempting to describe their opinion of a video game. It doesn't bother me if he believes that those other titles are "leading" the genre for him, because I understood he meant they were ahead of D4 for him. Maybe it's because I also find D4 aggressively mediocre having played the beta twice, it's not a game I want to play. Isn't that the benefit of basically releasing a demo like this? So people can see if they enjoy the game or not?

Who said I am personally slighted? It adds nothing to exaggerate and invent things just to hate on a game you don't like. Like complaining about D4 monetization when Last Epoch is objectively worse since it sold supporter packs and beta (early access) as well as plans for cosmetic-only microtransactions.

There is nothing wrong with not liking a game. There is something wrong with inventing things or denying reality just to say how much you don't like a game. It is great that people are finding out they won't like Diablo 4. It is great when they have valid reasons or don't obfuscate them with silly stuff. There are a lot of people that hold on to hate for Blizzard and ABK that has nothing to do with the actual game. Just something they hold onto out of some weird principle.

[Yriel]

Skills are hideously basic. I do not think i have ever played a hack n slash with skills that shallow, and i took a thorough look through all the ones that are shown in the skill tree.

The skill system seems very strange. The increases are so miniscule it seems unfinished.
I played a werewolf druid. I had a self-heal that heals me for 20% of my health. Quite nice. So if i put another point in it it heals for 21,3%. So 1,3% increase for one skillpoint? Is that a joke?
I was always starved on spirit. With full spirit i could only do 2 attacks. So i thought i should put points into the +spirit talent. So i put a point in there and got 3 additional spirit. I then looked how much that is in relation and saw that i now had 106 spirit, before i apparently had 103. 103 that i used up completely with 2 attacks. Why on earth should i spend 3 skillpoints to raise that for 9 addition points?
Same with everything. Attack does 48 points of damage. Put a skillpoint in it and it does 50.

Considering that you only get one point per level this seems really broken (and doesn't really motivate me to spend my points aside from getting the basic attacks).

[Kumorii]

The skill system seems very strange. The increases are so miniscule it seems unfinished.
I played a werewolf druid. I had a self-heal that heals me for 20% of my health. Quite nice. So if i put another point in it it heals for 21,3%. So 1,3% increase for one skillpoint? Is that a joke?
I was always starved on spirit. With full spirit i could only do 2 attacks. So i thought i should put points into the +spirit talent. So i put a point in there and got 3 additional spirit. I then looked how much that is in relation and saw that i now had 106 spirit, before i apparently had 103. 103 that i used up completely with 2 attacks. Why on earth should i spend 3 skillpoints to raise that for 9 addition points?
Same with everything. Attack does 48 points of damage. Put a skillpoint in it and it does 50.

Considering that you only get one point per level this seems really broken (and doesn't really motivate me to spend my points aside from getting the basic attacks).

Some skills do feel underwhelming, especially the ones that increase resources... I barely bother with them either. Though there are legendaries that increases dmg based on resources when cast, so it'll be more like a dmg increase, which is kind of boring, but you know.

However, when it comes to skills the damage they do and their increase is based on lvl, so they kind of scale with you.
Couple that with that you can get around 18 skill points in a skill, it definitely adds up.
In general it's around 10% increase per point(Kripparrian, haven't done math myself), which is bigger than it looks with low numbers.

Another thing that's sort of hidden and isn't in the description is that more skill points doesn't only increase damage, it increases both visual AND area of effects for said skills.

1.3% might feel small when lvling, but min-maxing will still be min-maxing. So the main ability you build around will surely benefit greatly from it.

Take note I'm not making an argument that you should like it or what not, just providing more info that isn't readily available, which I think they should add to the skills.

[Stanelis1]

You have not seen the games actual state lol, just a small fraction of gameplay of which is already better than vanilla D3 at release, the MMO aspect is the future of all games like this, all the really good ARPGS are online these days so you have to accept that reality.

Noone is making you buy D4 so go and play PoE then if you think its better, PoE is for the solo ARPG because its not group friendly, most other ARPGs want you to group up and do screw you like PoE does if you want to play with others. PoE the average player will never reach endgame, most other ARPGs at least allow players to get into entry level endgame and actually progress.

I mean I ve leveled to 20 in the previous beta on 2 classes and it bored me to death even with the improved unique drop rates. I can't even start to imagine how boring it would be with the nominal unique drop rates. Also I disagree with your statement that the game is better than D3, the beginning of D3 was entertaining even at release (the problems with D3 at release were in inferno mode).

I recently completed Last Epoch (which can be played solo, no MMO aspects) and even at the beginning it didn't seem as dull as Diablo IV currently is.

[Ophenia]

I didn't want to bother re-doing the first leveling a second time before the official game launch, how is the game with the "normal" drop rates ? Is it abysmal or okay-ish (or the difference is maybe not noticeable) ?

[Kumorii]

I didn't want to bother re-doing the first leveling a second time before the official game launch, how is the game with the "normal" drop rates ? Is it abysmal or okay-ish (or the difference is maybe not noticeable) ?

That's a very subjective thing tbh...
You have no trouble finding legendaries, at least in my experience... still decking out almost fully in legendary after playing a few hours on a character.
I'd say on average I had 3 legendaries as I reached lvl 20, more if I used Obols to gamble. And farming at that lvl didn't take too long to get new leggos.

Then you also have the dungeon imprints so you can craft yourself some early powerful ones as you lvl. Doesn't cost much. I don't think loot is much of an issue tbh.
I did think the other beta was ridiculous though so I'd say this is good.

[Santti]

I tried playing it with ryzen 5600, 2x8gb ddr4 @3200mhz and rx 6600, game kept crashing due to memory leak even now.

Amazing.

back to d2r for me

Yeah, Diablo 3 suffered from the same problem at the beginning.

[Ophenia]

That's a very subjective thing tbh...
You have no trouble finding legendaries, at least in my experience... still decking out almost fully in legendary after playing a few hours on a character.
I'd say on average I had 3 legendaries as I reached lvl 20, more if I used Obols to gamble. And farming at that lvl didn't take too long to get new leggos.

Then you also have the dungeon imprints so you can craft yourself some early powerful ones as you lvl. Doesn't cost much. I don't think loot is much of an issue tbh.
I did think the other beta was ridiculous though so I'd say this is good.

Cool, thanks for the feedback !

[Cynical Asshole]

I played the server slam, definitely will not be buying it.
Unlike d2, d3, PoE and Grim dawn where i could not stop myself from going through the entire campaign in a blitz, most of my time in D4 i was forcing myself to continue playing.

The classes are abysmally boring... i tried druid and necromancer (themes i love) and almost dropped dead from boredom.
Skills are hideously basic. I do not think i have ever played a hack n slash with skills that shallow, and i took a thorough look through all the ones that are shown in the skill tree.

I do not know what kind of endgame will d4 have but i, an avid fan of both the series and the genre, could not force myself to play what was offered in the server slam.
Also the graphics, while not ugly in the literal sense, are so overwhelmed with the gray color that i found myself repulsed to even look at details.

I have no choice but to agree.

I LOVED D2, played a bunch of D3, but during the server slam...I dunno...I just got bored and tapped out around level 15 as a rogue archer.

I feel like the maps are massive and I just wander around killing random mobs with no story behind them, no motivation whatsoever. In some areas there is no reason for some mobs to even exist in, like a dilapidated castle filled with undead and...bears? WTF? In fact bears seem to be popping up in a lot of places they have no business being in, and I wonder if they're supposed to be a placeholder or some shit.

Really thought I would quit WoW to play D4, but I don't think so. The game just feels boring to me.

[rhorle]

The skill system seems very strange. The increases are so miniscule it seems unfinished.

There are 100 levels so things can't be to big at the lower levels or they will be way over powered at the higher ones.

[kenn9530]

That person wasn't really complaining though, they stated the game wasn't for them in a discussion where people are taking about whether or not the game is for them.

All that person said in a bunch of words is that the game wasn't fun for them regardless of the price. There's worse negative feedback to attack.

Most ARPGS play around the same in the first stages of a play through so if your saying D4 isnt fun then thats the same for every other ARPG around, some take even longer before getting into proper gameplay, last epoch you only unlock mastery at lvl 20 and have barely even started a build yet, its the standard for the ARPG genre not D4 itself, these games start slow and once you got a build it smooths out.

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I mean I ve leveled to 20 in the previous beta on 2 classes and it bored me to death even with the improved unique drop rates. I can't even start to imagine how boring it would be with the nominal unique drop rates. Also I disagree with your statement that the game is better than D3, the beginning of D3 was entertaining even at release (the problems with D3 at release were in inferno mode).

I recently completed Last Epoch (which can be played solo, no MMO aspects) and even at the beginning it didn't seem as dull as Diablo IV currently is.

Last Epoch plays the same lol, infact the whole leveling campaign is fairly boring you just have to do it to unlock your idol slots and extra passives, and the +1 all stats for the very last quest hand in, ARPG gameplay is endgame not the story, the story in D4 is far superior than other ARPGs so its at least more interesting.

So you believe just following a set path like in D3 is a better game with no deviation or choice in what to do, there was not that much to do at D3 release, you were forced to get the pony land staff so you could farm act 4 level items or you couldnt progress past the mosquitos in act 2, it was a massive grind to even get a usuable yellow let alone a usuable legendery. It was fine but i would hardly call it more entertaining with only one choice of gameplay.

D3 became its true form in RoS.

[trapmaster]

Holy fuck this is beyond bad. Lmao look of them flocks of sheeps buying it and going to pretend to have funs…LMAO

[Jujudrood]

After dabbling a little more in the server slam, it still feels a bit slow/sluggish, and kinda boring.
Like, the abilities are fine or whatever, it's a hack and slash where you mash the same stuff over and over, but there's really no variety to be had.
The skill tree is so shallow compared to even middle-complex games like Grim Dawn and Last Epoch.
Maybe Paragon shakes it up, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'll still play it, and hopefully at later levels it gets a little more... I dunno, action-packed?