Who's bright idea was all the new currencies?

[Sorrowseer]

Its content padding and useless.

[Mastacow]

Currencies is what free to play and low grade MMOs do to keep you grinding.

[kamuimac]

Currencies is what free to play and low grade MMOs do to keep you grinding.

grindging is core and base of every mmorpg since its inception.

i have only 1 problem with gear this season . well 2 .

first is that you cannot upgrade lower tiers into higer tiers only you have to refarm - very strange but gotta pump those metrics

2nd is that they should have put something to "destroy " extra pieces of gear you get for currency / crests fragments too. woudl make gearing much more enjoyable.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If they want to kept their umpteen tier systems they should have just baked it all into upgrade levels instead of flooding my bags with even more crap than they already do. In general my biggest gripe with all the systems this time around is not so much the complexity in itself, that is just tiresome, it's the constant flood of useless trash items that clog up your inventory worse than a 250 mod minecraft world.

- - - Updated - - -

So you just skipped all of the quests meant to teach you?

Wait, there are quests that actually teach you what all the crafting stats actually do? I couldn't for the life of me find them for the last 6 months.

[czarek]

grindging is core and base of every mmorpg since its inception.

i have only 1 problem with gear this season . well 2 .

first is that you cannot upgrade lower tiers into higer tiers only you have to refarm - very strange but gotta pump those metrics

2nd is that they should have put something to "destroy " extra pieces of gear you get for currency / crests fragments too. woudl make gearing much more enjoyable.

Grinding is core. Ok but it still should be? Do we want this? I think there are other ways to keep playin than repeate same thing ten thousand times.

Excet this. No upgrade to higher tier is one of the biggest fails of this system. Also destroyin sounds reasonable. It could just boost a bit gearing and add subjective feelin all has matter. Upgradeing will erase grinding pretty much.

[kamuimac]

Grinding is core. Ok but it still should be? Do we want this? I think there are other ways to keep playin than repeate same thing ten thousand times.

Excet this. No upgrade to higher tier is one of the biggest fails of this system. Also destroyin sounds reasonable. It could just boost a bit gearing and add subjective feelin all has matter. Upgradeing will erase grinding pretty much.

considering the crowds in cave ? yes clearly people want it.

you may not want it - same as other people who just want to log in raid and log out but masses clearly show what kind of stuff they want.

grind is enjoyable for mmorpg fans.

[Cheezits]

I really like the system and how much good gear you get from outdoor content this patch, but people don't like the system and it's too confusing so it will go back to normal next patch. Shame really, it should've been much easier to understand.

[czarek]

considering the crowds in cave ? yes clearly people want it.

you may not want it - same as other people who just want to log in raid and log out but masses clearly show what kind of stuff they want.

grind is enjoyable for mmorpg fans.

Dunno. Maybe they are doin it because there is nothin left to do I doin it sometimes but ocasionally.

[Mafic]

They tried this in PVP and it flopped.

Keep it simple principle. For PVP you just worry about honor and conquest. For PVE it should just be valor and justice points.

If BlizZard wants to gate gear progression or cap then they need to be honest about it instead of obfuscating with new currencies every patch cycle.

[Soon-TM]

This seriously reminds me of path of exile.

That game is currency *HELL*

At least you don't need to clog your inventory that much in PoE, since currencies aren't soulbound so there is a decent chance someone else will be willing to buy your junk if your prices are reasonable. But 10.1 fills your bags with an ungodly amount of #$&% that will be obsolete as soon as the next patch hits.

[czarek]

Ok. After few days. This system is more familiar than i expected with some excuses. First of all i cant upgrade gear from veteran to champion level. Currency shouldnt be in BAGs lol. To many currencies made me a bit confused and lost.

[huth]

Wait, there are quests that actually teach you what all the crafting stats actually do? I couldn't for the life of me find them for the last 6 months.

You never once thought to just read the tooltips? They're not exactly complicated.

[Thirtyrock]

grindging is core and base of every mmorpg since its inception.

i have only 1 problem with gear this season . well 2 .

first is that you cannot upgrade lower tiers into higer tiers only you have to refarm - very strange but gotta pump those metrics

2nd is that they should have put something to "destroy " extra pieces of gear you get for currency / crests fragments too. woudl make gearing much more enjoyable.

Those are both great suggestions.

I also wish there was something useful to do with crests you don't need, like mount farming or something. I already have WAY too many whelpling crests that I have no use for.

I would say something like, spend X, thinking maybe 10 to 1 ratio, number of crests to upgrade to the next crest tier. Spend Y, this should be a pretty significant quantity, number of crests to upgrade a piece of gear to 1/8 of the next tier.

- - - Updated - - -

They tried this in PVP and it flopped.

Keep it simple principle. For PVP you just worry about honor and conquest. For PVE it should just be valor and justice points.

If BlizZard wants to gate gear progression or cap then they need to be honest about it instead of obfuscating with new currencies every patch cycle.

The problem is, people will generally farm the lowest difficulty content possible to get the currency they want. When it was just Valor, people were farming +2s to upgrade their gear as high as possible after they'd gotten the requisite rating. This system still has that issue, i.e. if I want Wyrm's crests I'm going to farm 11s because they're quicker and easier than 15s. But I'm not farming 2s like high rating teams were doing for valor in Season 1.

More currencies HELPS that issue by narrowing the band that farming is useful. If I want Wyrm crests, I can't farm anything below 11s.

On the other hand, more currencies causes the issue of clutter/confusion/tracking multiple things.

You have to pick which is worse /shrug. So far, the upgrade interface has made it really easy for me to tell what I need more of for any given piece of gear.

[Rustov]

This is what we got instead of borrowed power.
They never got rid of the convoluted systems, temporary power, or excessive grinds, they just shifted it to ilvls. The fundamental problem hasn't gone away.

[Thirtyrock]

This is what we got instead of borrowed power.
They never got rid of the convoluted systems, temporary power, or excessive grinds, they just shifted it to ilvls. The fundamental problem hasn't gone away.

I completely disagree. I feel that I could raidlog right now and mostly keep up with my raid team, ilvl wise. I'll be a bit behind those who are running M+ consistently, but not so far behind that it cripples me. If I want to be at the highest ilvl possible, I have to grind more. That's always been the case since I started back in Wrath. But I'm not forced into world content to be competitive in my chosen content, raiding.

Also, replacing gear is something that's always been in the game, it's not the same as borrowed power which gave you completely new abilities and/or significantly altered your existing abilities to the point that your gameplay centered around those changes. This system is a gear grind system, which is fine. I don't need to farm a certain legendary to be competitive only to see it completely revamped and potentially worthless the next tier.

[Rustov]

I completely disagree. I feel that I could raidlog right now and mostly keep up with my raid team, ilvl wise. I'll be a bit behind those who are running M+ consistently, but not so far behind that it cripples me. If I want to be at the highest ilvl possible, I have to grind more. That's always been the case since I started back in Wrath. But I'm not forced into world content to be competitive in my chosen content, raiding.

Also, replacing gear is something that's always been in the game, it's not the same as borrowed power which gave you completely new abilities and/or significantly altered your existing abilities to the point that your gameplay centered around those changes. This system is a gear grind system, which is fine. I don't need to farm a certain legendary to be competitive only to see it completely revamped and potentially worthless the next tier.

You will, instead, just be grinding a generic piece of epic loot, that will certainly be outclassed in the next tier.
New abilities that changed your gameplay wasn't the fundamental problem, it's not even a negative in my book. The real issue is the system of grinding and pavlovian reward meant to increase playtime without adding real content. The Blizzard business model can't sustain faster content creation, and can't accept a reasonable end point to a player's engagement with the game. A model that is thin on intrinsic reward.
That this shift to currencies helps raid-loggers such as yourself focus on only the content you enjoy is a perk- sure, fair point. I contend it doesn't have to come at the cost of everything else.

[Thirtyrock]

You will, instead, just be grinding a generic piece of epic loot, that will certainly be outclassed in the next tier.
New abilities that changed your gameplay wasn't the fundamental problem, it's not even a negative in my book. The real issue is the system of grinding and pavlovian reward meant to increase playtime without adding real content. The Blizzard business model can't sustain faster content creation, and can't accept a reasonable end point to a player's engagement with the game. A model that is thin on intrinsic reward.
That this shift to currencies helps raid-loggers such as yourself focus on only the content you enjoy is a perk- sure, fair point. I contend it doesn't have to come at the cost of everything else.

I mean, it sounds like you just don't like MMO/RPGs, since that's what you do in that type of game. You grind gear to do more healing/damage/whatever so you can do harder content so you can get more gear...

I disagree about new abilities coming from gear being a fundamental problem, but that's an opinion and your opinion differs from my opinion here.

My point about being ABLE to raid log goes further, though I didn't expand on it here. Since I am ABLE to raid log, I find myself wanting to do other content more often. I can sit down and decide "what do I want to do today" instead of "What do I HAVE to do today". The last 3 expansions ended up driving me away because I felt like I had a chore list, some of this was self-induced some of it was community driven.

I just don't think the type of game you're describing is something that can be created in an expansion based MMO. Look at Star Wars: Survivor - Fallen Order was released in 2019 and Survivor was released in 2023. I played through Fallen Order probably 3 or 4 times and had about 65 total hours logged. If Survivor takes me to 100 hours, and I only play 5 hours per week, that still is only 4 months of content. Let's say the ideal game-play time is 5 hours per week, just to have an easy number to work with. How in the world could a company create 250+ hours of content per year with any sort of quality? The math just doesn't work. They'd either have to dramatically expand their dev teams or the content would suck. Keeping that profitable just isn't realistic.

Let's posit that that amount of content COULD be made, consistently - You couldn't really have difficult content because some groups/players take longer to work their way through more difficult encounters, these players would either have to constantly skip content to keep up with current content or they would lag far, far behind the most recent release, content wise.

I think you might be asking for something that just isn't realistic.

[kamuimac]

This is what we got instead of borrowed power.
They never got rid of the convoluted systems, temporary power, or excessive grinds, they just shifted it to ilvls. The fundamental problem hasn't gone away.

and yet somehow players are very happy with it.

why ? most likely its the case of super simplification . and seeing numbers grow

most likely AP didnt fill it because of how passive gains it was providing and didnt give you +X itlv so you can join content easier.

anyhow it just works. people need content in mmorpg they can almost mindlessly farm while chilling out / listenign to music / watching netflix on 2nd screen

and crests provide exactly this.

it alst directly oposses te pervese efficiency gameplay some people were doing aka do 1 m+ a week then log out because only that can chane to give you strongest rewards because VP was capped (cause blizz was scared people will famr for 2 weeks and unsub )

now you know that if you are good and you play nough you can cap gear in 2-3 weeks and feel that you can either focus on progress or chill out on alts. you dont feel that anything you do in m+ /raid is meaningless because your main rewards come only and alone from GV anyway . you also know that that capping would require you to play ungodly amount of hours to farm up crests - but its finaly your own choice.

crest system is huge upgrade to game enjoyment - someting that wow was lacking since late mop era when blizz removed vp gear and upgrades from game.

huge huge improvement

im only scare of one thing - that in 2-3 weeks people will start crying how they cannot get into any groups (and by any groups they ofc mean good groups capable of facerolling stuff and boosting them ) if they are not 440+ and blizzrd may back down :/

[Echocho]

I really like the system and how much good gear you get from outdoor content this patch, but people don't like the system and it's too confusing so it will go back to normal next patch. Shame really, it should've been much easier to understand.

When it's back to normal I'll come back too. I had so much fun with the simple valor system in 10.0, this convoluted crap caused me to unsubscribe.

[Ceecee]

Might be a tiny bit off-topic, sorry. But couldnt find a more fitting thread here quickly (The topic is also hard to google tbh):

Does anyone know for sure if you need to keep the highest itemlevel items your character has earned this season in your bags or bank? Or does the game "remember" those items, even if sold/disenchanted? The discount to make lower items use less Flightstones/no Crests when upgraded I mean. Think Ive disenchanted some rings with wrong stats, running out of bag space very quickly since 10.1. Just wondering if that was a mistake and I should restore or not.