What existing specs could gain some Support spells?

[Biomega]

Yet I just saw the lineup of the raid group that took down mythic Echo of Neltharion. No disc priests on the team, thus no PI.

PI is on the Priest tree, not the spec tree. All Priests have PI, and in fact the Priests involved in that kill did all have it chosen. You don't seem to know these things very well, perhaps you are not in a great position to evaluate this kind of thing properly?

If that actually happens.

Yes. THAT'S THE POINT. People are AFRAID of this, no one can say what'll ACTUALLY be the case because the spec isn't available on live yet. Anything could change by the time it goes live, but people are pointing out there's the POTENTIAL for problems. Big ones.

Also the Evoker doesn't really control who gets the buff. The buff randomly chooses 4 allies in proximity, so unless the Demo Locks are chasing the Evoker around the battlefield, what you're describing is simply not going to happen.

First off, you're already defusing your own argument here because they CAN control who gets the buff by positioning.

Secondly, you seem to focus exclusively on their main-stat buff, but that's NOT the only way Augmentation increases people's damage. It's just one of them, and the simplest one since it's fairly automatic given the extension mechanic. It's very different for the others.

Again, see above. What buff in particular are you basing this on from Augmentation? It can't be from Ebon Might, which is the main buff of the spec. Are you talking about Prescience which buffs Crit? Or the buff the Versatility? What buff from this class would make you think it's going to tip the scales on the level you're talking about?

Stacking effects like Prescience + Fate Mirror and Breath of Eons are the biggest culprit because it creates burst windows where buffs compound each other. Properly stacking these effects is going to make for WILD damage swings if executed properly. And again, no one knows the exact numbers yet because it's not released, but this kind of playstyle creates the POTENTIAL for problems. That's all people are pointing out.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Or just for the 4 pure DPS specs to give them a bit versatility.
Mage, Rogue, Warlock & Hunter

Tbh, I would prefer them to stay pure and instead explore other themes that don't quite amount to enough material for another class.

Edit: Also, I wish people would stop trying to redesign Arcane Mage into something else. It's a perfectly viable spec since pretty much Legion at this point.

[Rocksteady 87]

The classes that don't have a tank or healing spec are the only ones that deserve one. Though I wouldn't mind too much if the classes with only one othre role available got one, too.

If a class like Druid or Paladin who can already do all three (or four int he case of druids, with both melee and ranged DPS) also gets a support spec, that'll just demonstrate that Blizzard really has no fucking idea what they're doing.

Not that nearly 20 years of working on game balance and still failing horribly hasn't demonstrated that already.

[Teriz]

PI is on the Priest tree, not the spec tree. All Priests have PI, and in fact the Priests involved in that kill did all have it chosen. You don't seem to know these things very well, perhaps you are not in a great position to evaluate this kind of thing properly?

I fixed it. However, if PI was such a huge issue, why aren't all the healers priests?

Yes. THAT'S THE POINT. People are AFRAID of this, no one can say what'll ACTUALLY be the case because the spec isn't available on live yet. Anything could change by the time it goes live, but people are pointing out there's the POTENTIAL for problems. Big ones.

It's quite obvious that if its just buffing the primary stat of a spec, there won't be a scenario where one class is overwhelmingly favored by the buff, since all specs would benefit from such a buff relatively equally.

First off, you're already defusing your own argument here because they CAN control who gets the buff by positioning.

Saying that a buff that goes to 4 random nearby allies can be controlled is a very loose way of defining "control".

Secondly, you seem to focus exclusively on their main-stat buff, but that's NOT the only way Augmentation increases people's damage. It's just one of them, and the simplest one since it's fairly automatic given the extension mechanic. It's very different for the others.

It's the main one, since Ebon Might can be up for nearly the duration the entire raid. Now it would take an incredible amount of skill to pull that off, but its possible. Either way, Ebon Might is going to be the main contributor of Augvoker damage.

Stacking effects like Prescience + Fate Mirror and Breath of Eons are the biggest culprit because it creates burst windows where buffs compound each other. Properly stacking these effects is going to make for WILD damage swings if executed properly. And again, no one knows the exact numbers yet because it's not released, but this kind of playstyle creates the POTENTIAL for problems. That's all people are pointing out.

I'm pretty sure Breath of Eons big effect benefits only the Evoker, and it will only give them such a big payoff if they're properly upkeeping Ebon Might, which isn't easy to do. Like I said, high skill should get high rewards, or the spec isn't worth the extra work. You're also the first poster I've seen complain about Prescience being a threat to balance. Many think it sucks and needs to have two charges. Finally, where did you hear that Fate Mirror is stackable?

[Biomega]

I'm pretty sure Breath of Eons big effect benefits only the Evoker

It scales off of the damage other people are doing in the window. THAT'S THE POINT.

Be honest: did you actually investigate these mechanics, or did you just read "support spec", look at Ebon Might, and are drawing your conclusions purely from that?

It's okay if you're out of your depth, just perhaps not the best spot to try and discuss things you don't really know that much about is all.

[Teriz]

It scales off of the damage other people are doing in the window. THAT'S THE POINT.

Other players currently effected by your Ebon Might. Augvoker gets a big damage payoff for upkeeping their main buff. What's the problem with that?

Be honest: did you actually investigate these mechanics, or did you just read "support spec", look at Ebon Might, and are drawing your conclusions purely from that?

It's okay if you're out of your depth, just perhaps not the best spot to try and discuss things you don't really know that much about is all.

I'm drawing my conclusions based on the fact that Ebon Might is the lynchpin of the spec. Sure there are other buffs, but the main one where the majority of spells are playing off of is Ebon Might, and at its core, it's a pretty fair and equal buff. Nowhere near as exploitive as you're trying to make it out to be.

[Biomega]

Other players currently effected by your Ebon Might. Augvoker gets a big damage payoff for upkeeping their main buff. What's the problem with that?

I'm drawing my conclusions based on the fact that Ebon Might is the lynchpin of the spec. Sure there are other buffs, but the main one where the majority of spells are playing off of is Ebon Might, and at its core, it's a pretty fair and equal buff. Nowhere near as exploitive as you're trying to make it out to be.

Perhaps you should just take the word of people who've actually looked at the mechanics of this in more depth that there MIGHT be problems with balancing this kind of spec. You demonstrably don't actually know how these things really work or how scaling works or how compounding buff mechanics in burst windows work. And that's totally fine - "I don't know much about this, so I can't say" is a perfectly acceptable answer, there's no need to try and confront people when you don't even know the first thing about how the underlying mechanics actually work.

Opinions are all well and good, but it's really INFORMED opinions that are the useful ones. The rest is just... wild guessing.

[Nzx]

Support specs should be tanks and healers, in order to encourage greater interest in those roles. The split would be something a bit like a personal damage-focused tank vs one that does less damage itself and instead amplifies the damage of the group, and similar with healers (like battle shaman, but a bit more involved). This way a player could choose to play a healer with a bit less pressure on themselves to deal damage and more focus on their healing, with some smart-targeted group buffs going off to improve the team's damage, or they could play the existing style of weaving healing with personal damage.

Support specs the way Augmentation is currently looking to work will be disastrous in small group content - they simply will not work. They'll either be mandatory because the damage increase to the rest of the group is so substantial you'd be gimping yourself to not have one, or they'll never be taken because they don't increase the group's damage enough to replace just having another damage dealer, especially given the additional coordination requirements of buffing your team when they're in their damage windows. If the focus was put more on the tank or healer role, where there is already scarcity of players filling that role, there would be less hyper focus on the performance of the spec in general (outside of top end environments like MDI and RWF).

[Bepples]

It's going to be a mess...

You support melee Survival so I'm sure you'll do just fine adjusting to white-knight for another mess of a spec.

[Teriz]

Perhaps you should just take the word of people who've actually looked at the mechanics of this in more depth that there MIGHT be problems with balancing this kind of spec.You demonstrably don't actually know how these things really work or how scaling works or how compounding buff mechanics in burst windows work. And that's totally fine - "I don't know much about this, so I can't say" is a perfectly acceptable answer, there's no need to try and confront people when you don't even know the first thing about how the underlying mechanics actually work.

Thats an interesting argument to make considering I just corrected you on how Breath of Eons works.

Listen, you clearly have a “Doom and Gloom” agenda here, so I’ll leave you to it.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Ive wanted a tyrande style healing Archer from the start of the game so that would be my pick. GW2 already does this with their ranger

[Biomega]

Thats an interesting argument to make considering I just corrected you on how Breath of Eons works.

You didn't correct anything. You simply demonstrated that despite evidently reading the ability, you are not understanding what the problem is. And that's fine, as I said - these things are complicated. It's just kind of weird to be sure about something you don't actually know much about. But maybe that's just me. The internet certainly has made a lot of people think they are competent to chime in on issues they are underinformed on.

[Vaedan]

I fixed it. However, if PI was such a huge issue, why aren't all the healers priests?

It seems you know very little about healers.

Priests bring very little utility, have pretty bad mobility and are more squishy healers out of all. Discipline also has pretty narrow healing pattern, when they wait for mechanics, ramp and burst to provide huge healing spike and them do very little until CDs are up. You would be royaly screwed on rot dmg encounters. Just look at Vault of Incarnates, where priest healing patterns were inferior to druid and evokers, which were very popular. Holy is more flexible and can adapt to many situations, but it is just a HPS Machine, with little to offer to the raid.

Also, when there is encounter that requires a lot of movement, priests are pretty much screwed. Remember myth Raszageth, when priests could not survive mechanics unless Evokers rescued them? You would certainly not want all your healers dead after single mechanic.

That being said, PI is extremely powerful CD, but as far as healers go, you don't want to ruin your group flexibility just because of one single spec. Issue which Agumentation may cause is a bit different. We are not speaking about one external which you align with your teammates CD. We are talking about whole spec being fueling your team.

I am not against the idea, but it has many potential issues. We definitely need to wait and see what will come out of it. Possibly a lot of headaches for raid leaders trying to figure out best combinations.

[Dracullus]

Some people are still pissed about Survival change from 2016. And it was switch from 3x ranged class to 2x ranged and 1x melee. Imagine drastic changes to class that has 1 spec per role.

[LionSinMaikeru]

I'd be interested in seeing a stackable Paladin aura that increases the primary stat of x allies.

Enhancement Shamans being able to Enhance their allies' weapons.

.........Warrior shouts.......

No existing specs should be altered, that would piss people off. We need 4th specs to come + some of them to be support-based.

[czarek]

Mage - any spec could be but imo arcane this is the way
Shaman - ench
Priest - disciple
Paladin - retri or holy

[Teriz]

Some people are still pissed about Survival change from 2016. And it was switch from 3x ranged class to 2x ranged and 1x melee. Imagine drastic changes to class that has 1 spec per role.

Yeah, I don’t see Blizzard pulling what they did in Legion again. That Legion change happened because Hunter and Rogue specs felt too similar. Hunter and Rogue specs currently do a good job of feeling different. They could add 4th specs to existing classes, but I think the most likely scenario is that the next future class (Tinker?) will also have a support-style spec.

[Geckoo]

Honestly, i think it's more plausible to think that on the long run augmentation will end up being a competitive DPS spec with some neglectable support abilities than it is to think that they'll rework or add new specs, specially when reworking means changing the role those specs have had for the majority of the game and adding new specs just contributes to the balancing mess the game already has.

With that said, since it's not my place to worry about balance, i would say that if they expanded the support concept, the first classes to have support specs should be rogue, warlock, hunter and mage. First because they are the ones that have been in need of an alternative roles for many many years and second because if you have to drastically change a spec to make it fit a new role it's certainly better if the players have an alternative within the class that fits the theme and role they enjoy than it is to make them feel expelled from their own character, wich would happen if the more logic options (retribution and enhancement for example) suddenly changed their role.

[BB8]

Tbh, I would prefer them to stay pure and instead explore other themes that don't quite amount to enough material for another class.

Edit: Also, I wish people would stop trying to redesign Arcane Mage into something else. It's a perfectly viable spec since pretty much Legion at this point.

Remember that support is still DPS, so they stay pure DPS. But with this a bit different playstyle

[Amnaught]

No existing specs should be altered, that would piss people off. We need 4th specs to come + some of them to be support-based.

I'm not talking about revamps, though those can ans do happen literally every expansion. I just mean a talent or spell or three, giving classically "support" specs a chance to dip their toes into it again, now that damage/healing logs are going to be able to track augmentation so it's not gonna "hurt your output" anymore.